Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

alps · 15-02-2016 12:08PM

kowtow wrote: »

Yup, those kind of unequal novation clauses are one of the things that bug me.

Banks always reserve the right to sell the loan asset on.

For the sake of equality, you should reserve the right to sell or transfer the loan obligation on... or in the case of the co-op the benefit of the MSA.

It was so very dissapionting that the farmers needs and requirements were not negotiated for in the drawing up of some of these MSAs. I can never forgive the farmer reps in Dairygold for not looking after the farmers side in things like the tax treatment of their investment. Kowtow refers to anoth er glaring ommission at the time, and that is that a farmer cannot now sell his business as a going concern....The farmer really needed that freedom, to "assign or transfer"(as the coop can) the msa in the event of he selling the farm.
These types of inclusions would have made no significant difference to what the coop needed out of the msa, but farmer reps just let us down in so many ways, particularly in their defensiveness when items were pointed out....

whelan2 · 15-02-2016 12:25PM

ANY January milk prices yet?

Water John · 15-02-2016 12:31PM

Alps that is one of the breakdowns as a result of a dysfunctional IFA. There is so much tie in between board members and senior IFA people in the dairy sector.
So many opinions and motions eg independent milk testing, never saw the light of day. Or you had senior IFA people speaking against ind testing at coop meetings. Even though that was IFA policy.
Any IFA office holder publicly supporting a contrary view should resign.
That has to stop.

alps · 15-02-2016 12:55PM

Water John wrote: »

Alps that is one of the breakdowns as a result of a dysfunctional IFA. There is so much tie in between board members and senior IFA people in the dairy sector.
So many opinions and motions eg independent milk testing, never saw the light of day. Or you had senior IFA people speaking against ind testing at coop meetings. Even though that was IFA policy.
Any IFA office holder publicly supporting a contrary view should resign.
That has to stop.

Breakdown of farmer representation at coop level John......not everything in the world is the fault of the IFA.....
However it was impossible to build traction in the IFA regarding this issue.....The reason being, if the farmer representation was ok with it, then it's ok.....

atlantic mist · 15-02-2016 02:23PM

alps wrote: »

It was so very dissapionting that the farmers needs and requirements were not negotiated for in the drawing up of some of these MSAs. I can never forgive the farmer reps in Dairygold for not looking after the farmers side in things like the tax treatment of their investment. Kowtow refers to anoth er glaring ommission at the time, and that is that a farmer cannot now sell his business as a going concern....The farmer really needed that freedom, to "assign or transfer"(as the coop can) the msa in the event of he selling the farm.
These types of inclusions would have made no significant difference to what the coop needed out of the msa, but farmer reps just let us down in so many ways, particularly in their defensiveness when items were pointed out....

well have to bring milk supply into valuation of land, the land is worth more if your supplying west cork coops, strathroy or lakelands:)

got my MSA delivered yesterday, (i never signed previously as my name was not on milk account, have been warned i will miss all future bonuses, im wondering could i achieve better going it alone, between dwags organics and all the cottage industry that we should have here has me thinking) oh decisions decisions, if you sign the MSA can you actually start producing finished product at home or is that considered supplying someone else?

atlantic mist · 15-02-2016 02:30PM

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0215/768054-oil/

iran back in the oil game, first load heading to france

Water John · 15-02-2016 02:56PM

I don't know where you are or who you supply, Mist, but I'd give it a lot of thought before signing any long term contract.
If its a short MSA, which some processors offer I would be much more amenable.

Alps, I know full well the 'blocking' done within the IFA. This did not begin in the recent past as some are trying to spin. Easily 15/20 years.

When IFA went to look at representing farmers who were approached for land options for wind farms in the midlands, they approached the top firm of solicitors in Ireland on renewable energy, Beauchamps, to structure the options and leases. This is for a very niche group.
Amazingly, no such approach was even considered to represent farmers when MSA's were enforced by processors on dairy farmers.
Each farmer was left to his own devices.
That is exactly the role of IFA.

Farmers need to be very ready for the next round of such negotiations. Don't go in to be picked off one by one.

rangler1 · 15-02-2016 06:08PM

Water John wrote: »

I don't know where you are or who you supply, Mist, but I'd give it a lot of thought before signing any long term contract.
If its a short MSA, which some processors offer I would be much more amenable.

Alps, I know full well the 'blocking' done within the IFA. This did not begin in the recent past as some are trying to spin. Easily 15/20 years.

When IFA went to look at representing farmers who were approached for land options for wind farms in the midlands, they approached the top firm of solicitors in Ireland on renewable energy, Beauchamps, to structure the options and leases. This is for a very niche group.
Amazingly, no such approach was even considered to represent farmers when MSA's were enforced by processors on dairy farmers.
Each farmer was left to his own devices.
That is exactly the role of IFA.

Farmers need to be very ready for the next round of such negotiations. Don't go in to be picked off one by one.

That really reinforces my argument, completely different commitee involved with wind farms than dairy, so not surprising there's a different approach. the commitee needed outside expertise and got it. commitees work independent of each other. it's not that milk is more or less important, it's just a different commitee, in fact i was on that project team and can't remember any dairy farmer being on it.....nice to see you praising at least one commitee that i was on.
Can't understand you guys being so critical and yet not bothering to get involved......wouldn't be my way

Dawggone · 15-02-2016 07:52PM

Was Simon in Brussels today?

France's Min for Ag (Le Foll) was in Brussels today pushing proposals to up base intervention trigger price...and pushing for any aid to be linked to farmers that drop their level of production.

Seemingly his proposals are gaining traction with German, Spanish, Italian and Polish counterparts.

Looks like he is swinging both barrels at Ireland and Holland?

RightTurnClyde · 15-02-2016 07:54PM

whelan2 wrote: »

ANY January milk prices yet?

Glanbia, is holding Jans price @ 25

Dawggone · 15-02-2016 08:00PM

atlantic mist wrote: »

well have to bring milk supply into valuation of land, the land is worth more if your supplying west cork coops, strathroy or lakelands:)

got my MSA delivered yesterday, (i never signed previously as my name was not on milk account, have been warned i will miss all future bonuses, im wondering could i achieve better going it alone, between dwags organics and all the cottage industry that we should have here has me thinking) oh decisions decisions, if you sign the MSA can you actually start producing finished product at home or is that considered supplying someone else?

Organic is starting to look increasingly attractive...
However I'm reluctant to go down the road of a large processor branding and marketing my produce. Just doesn't sit right with me...

Dawggone · 15-02-2016 08:14PM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Glanbia, is holding Jans price @ 25

Is that inc Coop support and vat?

Water John · 15-02-2016 08:17PM

You'll have to develop the project yourself Dawgone.
Look at the Glenisk model. What did they sell for a few years ago and still run the business?

Dawggone · 15-02-2016 08:31PM

Water John wrote: »

You'll have to develop the project yourself Dawgone.
Look at the Glenisk model. What did they sell for a few years ago and still run the business?

I certainly don't have the know-how or the apetite for such a project. Way too old...

Water John · 15-02-2016 08:43PM

Ah Dawgone, we are mature not old.

kowtow · 15-02-2016 09:10PM

Dawggone wrote: »

I certainly don't have the know-how or the apetite for such a project. Way too old...

Hmmm.

Timmaay · 15-02-2016 10:06PM

Dwag you'll love this: https://charliehebdo.fr/en/edito/ploughing-up-the-grass-to-get-humped-up-the-ass/

WheatenBriar · 15-02-2016 10:16PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Is that inc Coop support and vat?

Yes
Real cost to them about 22c

Dawggone · 15-02-2016 10:49PM

Timmaay wrote: »

Dwag you'll love this: https://charliehebdo.fr/en/edito/ploughing-up-the-grass-to-get-humped-up-the-ass/

"Things are only cheap when you remove their value"...

Thing about that article is that three dairy farmers in Brittany took their own lives last week, because of milk price...Charlie Hebdo, is the kind of publication that Albert Camus would find amusing, but I find it grates a little bit. Camus was an absurdist and questioned whether suicide was the correct response to an absurd world...

The article uses Camus's philosophy to poke 'fun' (?) at farmers when blatantly implying that the answer is in front of their nose...organic.

Sorry off topic.

Edit. This post is not in the spirit of the thread so I'd like to add that I'm more of a Baudelaire kinda man!

RightTurnClyde · 15-02-2016 11:21PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Is that inc Coop support and vat?

Including vat and 1cent support

mahoney_j · 15-02-2016 11:36PM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Including vat and 1cent support

The auld cookie jar must be getting small now ,gdt again expecting another drop this week with wmp expected to be back 10%.

Dawggone · 15-02-2016 11:49PM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Including vat and 1cent support

I was speaking to someone that was at the N. Tipp's do with Mr.Brosnan speaking.
Not encouraging.
I was keeping an eye on RTE for the leaders debate at same time...
Jesus wept.

A bunch of buffoons with a handful of arts degrees between them...FFS.

Again off topic. Apologies.

frazzledhome · 16-02-2016 08:12AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

The auld cookie jar must be getting small now ,gdt again expecting another drop this week with wmp expected to be back 10%.

Loads still in it and it will continue for this year with €7/tonne rebate on all feed and Fertilizer.

A question for yourself, have ye been told yet much ye're milk is being subbed by?

mahoney_j · 16-02-2016 10:48AM

frazzledhome wrote: »

Loads still in it and it will continue for this year with €7/tonne rebate on all feed and Fertilizer.

A question for yourself, have ye been told yet much ye're milk is being subbed by?

Sure we're been paid what market is returning for our product mix !!!,very hard get straight answer on that ,we were told in November our base was rock solid till March cheque cashed as most of milk going to luquid .

frazzledhome · 16-02-2016 10:52AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Sure we're been paid what market is returning for our product mix !!!,very hard get straight answer on that ,we were told in November our base was rock solid till March cheque cashed as most of milk going to luquid .

Price won't change for 2-3 mths, that business is done.

I know you don't believe coop isn't subbing milk

st1979 · 16-02-2016 10:58AM

atlantic mist wrote:

got my MSA delivered yesterday, (i never signed previously as my name was not on milk account, have been warned i will miss all future bonuses, im wondering could i achieve better going it alone, between dwags organics and all the cottage industry that we should have here has me thinking) oh decisions decisions, if you sign the MSA can you actually start producing finished product at home or is that considered supplying someone else?

With Glanbia you can use your own milk for such a venture without messing up your msa.

Dawggone · 16-02-2016 12:11PM

frazzledhome wrote: »

Loads still in it and it will continue for this year with €7/tonne rebate on all feed and Fertilizer.

Out of interest, what price is a ton of rolled barley or maize in Glanbia?

What price is a ton of CAN or Urea?

Farmer Ed · 16-02-2016 12:38PM

Seems to me that the co op crying the most about having to raid the cookie jar doesn't even have a cookie jar. The only reason they didn't fall far behind the others before now, was the fear of losing more suppliers. The co ops with a poor product mix and large borrowings look set to be exposed badly this year. Just hope the stronger Co ops won't be tempted to drop the price in solidarity with them. This thing about having to support milk price is nothing more than an admission that they have no market for their product mix.