Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

aimee1 · 14-02-2016 05:48PM

Tox56 wrote: »

Just wait, Ulster will inexplicably sign him to play alongside Piutau and they will be the first pro team to line out with 6 internationally capped centres on the bench, while new signing from the AIL Alfred McDoonigle starts at 7

If he does come to Leinster I would expect this to happen, he can wear 12 on his back and Ringrose 13, but in reality they could just be a "centre partnership", theres no reason they cant play inside and out

I do sympathise with Connacht and their fans but Henshaw is a nailed on international starter, he can walk into the Leinster team and he knows it, you really cant be surprised when he takes that opportunity and although people blame the IRFU/Nucifora it really isnt their job to try and hold him in Connacht against his will

EoS made a valid point about this on rte. Henshaw needs to play ERCC every season and leinster or munster is more likely to provide that then connacht are

Buer · 14-02-2016 06:14PM

On another note, I don't know if anyone has been watching the U20 6N but I've followed both games closely enough to see if there's anyone worth writing home about.

Over the last 6 or 7 years, we've seen a glut of Leinster second rows play at that level. Ben Marshall, Mick Kearney, Alan O'Connor, Mark Flanagan, David O'Connor, Eoin Sheriff, Ross Molony, Ciaran Ruddock, Gavin Thornbury, Tadhg Beirne, Conor McInerney....

James Ryan, on the evidence thus far, looks better than the lot. He's athletic, aggressive and has a ridiculous work rate as well as a good brain and leads well as captain. Doesn't panic or get over eager. Took his try the other night well, waiting to get his hands on it before crashing over. Best hands I've seen for a lock since MOK.

His chase back against France to somehow catch the French flanker, flip him and hold him up should not have been possible at all for a guy who is 6'8". If this guy keeps fit, he's going to making starts for the senior team in the next 2 years.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see himself and Molony being a very exciting partnership in a few years.

hogandrew · 14-02-2016 06:18PM

Buer wrote: »

On another note, I don't know if anyone has been watching the U20 6N but I've followed both games closely enough to see if there's anyone worth writing home about.

Over the last 6 or 7 years, we've seen a glut of Leinster second rows play at that level. Ben Marshall, Mick Kearney, Alan O'Connor, Mark Flanagan, David O'Connor, Eoin Sheriff, Ross Molony, Ciaran Ruddock, Gavin Thornbury, Tadhg Beirne, Conor McInerney....

James Ryan, on the evidence thus far, looks better than the lot. He's athletic, aggressive and has a ridiculous work rate as well as a good brain and leads well as captain. Doesn't panic or get over eager. Took his try the other night well, waiting to get his hands on it before crashing over. Best hands I've seen for a lock since MOK.

His chase back against France to somehow catch the French flanker, flip him and hold him up should not have been possible at all for a guy who is 6'8". If this guy keeps fit, he's going to making starts for the senior team in the next 2 years.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see himself and Molony being a very exciting partnership in a few years.

I'd go as far as saying he's the best u20 I've seen playing for Ireland. Whatever st Michaels are doing should be copied around the country

Mahatma Geansai · 14-02-2016 06:19PM

Rumours elsewhere (PlanetRugby) that Henshaw isn't going to be on a central contract. He was looking for huge money and the IRFU wouldn't match it. Leinster stumped up the cash.

thomond2006 · 14-02-2016 06:21PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Rumours elsewhere (PlanetRugby) that Henshaw isn't going to be on a central contract. He was looking for huge money and the IRFU wouldn't match it. Leinster stumped up the cash.

It's an odd enough system really. The right hand wouldn't offer the cash so the left hand would?

Buer · 14-02-2016 06:26PM

Wouldn't have moved for cash though given Leinster can't outbid Connacht.

wp_rathead · 14-02-2016 06:32PM

Hagz wrote: »

So the future Irish centre partnership will be side by side in blue once again. Unfortunate for Connacht to lose such a massive player. He'll definitley be played at 12. Contrary to what a lot of Connacht fans will say, he's a centre by trade and always has been.

Looking forward to seeing the combination at work. I think it will have a great balance to it and their age profiles add to the excitement.

Henshaw did play abit at 13 underage but was mainly 15
He broke into the Connacht team with an injury to Gavin Duffy at 15
He started playing 13 for Connacht when Bundee and Mils were signed last season

aimee1 wrote: »

EoS made a valid point about this on rte. Henshaw needs to play ERCC every season and leinster or munster is more likely to provide that then connacht are

never hear Welsh people say Warbutton needs to be playing ERCC
Or English people say that Mike Brown or Marler needs to be playing ERCC
It is a purely Irish mindset

aimee1 · 14-02-2016 06:34PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

never hear Welsh people say Warbutton needs to be playing ERCC
Or English people say that Mike Brown or Marler needs to be playing ERCC
It is a purely Irish mindset

EoS was saying it might be what Henshaw wants for himself that is driving him to leave

Buer · 14-02-2016 06:35PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

never hear Welsh people say Warbutton needs to be playing ERCC
Or English people say that Mike Brown or Marler needs to be playing ERCC
It is a purely Irish mindset

In fairness, it's different if you're not in the Pro12 as you've a highly competitive domestic league to operate in.

Warburton...he barely plays club rugby end of story!

14-02-2016 06:38PM

hogandrew wrote: »

I'd go as far as saying he's the best u20 I've seen playing for Ireland. Whatever st Michaels are doing should be copied around the country

Iain Henderson was incredible at the u20s world cup a few years back, was shocked when JJ Hanrahan got nominated for junior player of the year ahead of him.

Hagz · 14-02-2016 08:15PM

Bazzo wrote: »

That's just not true though, he always played at full back until Ireland needed a centre and he was moved to 13 at Connacht to accommodate that need. He's probably equally good at 13 and 15 these days. I think he's probably a bit wasted at 12, he'll get through a lot of defensive work and batter the line but he thrives with the extra space at 13 and 15 so he's much more of an attacking threat as well defensively sound.

wp_rathead wrote: »

Henshaw did play abit at 13 underage but was mainly 15
He broke into the Connacht team with an injury to Gavin Duffy at 15
He started playing 13 for Connacht when Bundee and Mils were signed last season

Henshaw came through the system as a 13. He didn't just play a bit at 13, it's the position he came through the underage ranks in. Injury necessitated that he begin his professional career as a full-back but he was always going to end up in the centre and that's where he's always going to play long-term.

vienne86 · 14-02-2016 08:40PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Rumours elsewhere (PlanetRugby) that Henshaw isn't going to be on a central contract. He was looking for huge money and the IRFU wouldn't match it. Leinster stumped up the cash.

I find that hard to believe. The provinces can't outbid each other. He obviously wanted to move, whatever the reason.

I hope he plays 12, inside Ringrose and outside Sexton.....excellent.

awec · 14-02-2016 08:55PM

vienne86 wrote: »

I find that hard to believe. The provinces can't outbid each other. He obviously wanted to move, whatever the reason.

I hope he plays 12, inside Ringrose and outside Sexton.....excellent.

My understanding is:

- Henshaw wanted to move
- IRFU wanted him to stay in Connacht
- IRFU offered him a central deal to stay at Connacht
- He wanted big money to stay at Connacht
- IRFU told him to saunter on
- Leinster stumped up the cash and he got the move he wanted

CatFromHue · 14-02-2016 08:59PM

The rules used to always be that provinces couldn't outbid other provinces so if what you say happened it's terrible player management by the IRFU.

former total · 14-02-2016 09:02PM

Absolute fiction. IRFU have to sanction all contracts, national or provincial. No way could it have happened like that.

14-02-2016 09:02PM

awec wrote: »

My understanding is:

- Henshaw wanted to move
- IRFU wanted him to stay in Connacht
- IRFU offered him a central deal to stay at Connacht
- He wanted big money to stay at Connacht
- IRFU told him to saunter on
- Leinster stumped up the cash and he got the move he wanted

Yeah IRFU went all out to retain Keith Earls but told Robbie to jog on. Planet Rugby nonsense strikes again.

14-02-2016 09:03PM

former total wrote: »

Absolute fiction. IRFU have to sanction all contracts, national or provincial. No way could it have happened like that.

Welcome back Former Total!

Buer · 14-02-2016 09:04PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

The rules used to always be that provinces couldn't outbid other provinces so if what you say happened it's terrible player management by the IRFU.

They still are. Was confirmed on OTB a few weeks ago during the Moore/Earls sagas. I think it was Quinlan and Thornley who re-stated it.

A province cannot outbid another province. They can match them and the player can move based on personal factors or a preference for another side but if Connacht offered €X, then Leinster could not offer anything more than €X.

That is, of course, if it's not a central deal.

former total · 14-02-2016 09:06PM

Or that a province could outbid a central contract?! No.

Bazzo · 14-02-2016 09:06PM

Hagz wrote: »

Henshaw came through the system as a 13. He didn't just play a bit at 13, it's the position he came through the underage ranks in. Injury necessitated that he begin his professional career as a full-back but he was always going to end up in the centre and that's where he's always going to play long-term.

Grand, you won't mind providing some evidence of that so? Because there's plenty to the contrary. He had played 13 but his main position was 15.

awec · 14-02-2016 09:07PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

The rules used to always be that provinces couldn't outbid other provinces so if what you say happened it's terrible player management by the IRFU.

It's terrible player management no matter what the circumstances unless Henshaw is coming to Leinster to play 13. Way more advantageous for Ireland for Henshaw to stay at Connacht.

Hagz · 14-02-2016 09:07PM

Strange because Conor O'Shea was talking about how careers are short and that if Henshaw went to Leinster for more money you can't begrudge him. You would think Conor O'Shea would be very much in the know.

salmocab · 14-02-2016 09:08PM

Buer wrote: »

They still are. Was confirmed on OTB a few weeks ago during the Moore/Earls sagas. I think it was Quinlan and Thornley who re-stated it.

A province cannot outbid another province. They can match them and the player can move based on personal factors or a preference for another side but if Connacht offered €X, then Leinster could not offer anything more than €X.

Just on that there must be a bit more to it, as that would mean connacht in theory know he wants out and low ball him with a terrible offer and Leinster have to just offer the same so he might end up over seas.

He probably has better earning potential in Leinster too as I would imagine it would be better for his profile for endorsements etc.

The Lost Sheep · 14-02-2016 09:09PM

Buer wrote: »

On another note, I don't know if anyone has been watching the U20 6N but I've followed both games closely enough to see if there's anyone worth writing home about.

Over the last 6 or 7 years, we've seen a glut of Leinster second rows play at that level. Ben Marshall, Mick Kearney, Alan O'Connor, Mark Flanagan, David O'Connor, Eoin Sheriff, Ross Molony, Ciaran Ruddock, Gavin Thornbury, Tadhg Beirne, Conor McInerney....

James Ryan, on the evidence thus far, looks better than the lot. He's athletic, aggressive and has a ridiculous work rate as well as a good brain and leads well as captain. Doesn't panic or get over eager. Took his try the other night well, waiting to get his hands on it before crashing over. Best hands I've seen for a lock since MOK.

His chase back against France to somehow catch the French flanker, flip him and hold him up should not have been possible at all for a guy who is 6'8". If this guy keeps fit, he's going to making starts for the senior team in the next 2 years.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see himself and Molony being a very exciting partnership in a few years.

Wouldn't say JR is better than the rest. He is good and hopefully he does progress but the hype can be toned down a slight bit... There's been talk of so many guys based on their age grade career and then they don't happen to make it. The hype/pressure put on them is ridiculously OTT....

hogandrew wrote: »

I'd go as far as saying he's the best u20 I've seen playing for Ireland. Whatever st Michaels are doing should be copied around the country

Michaels have big enough numbers and plenty of financial backing. That cant be matched in majority of the country....

Buer wrote: »

In fairness, it's different if you're not in the Pro12 as you've a highly competitive domestic league to operate in.

Warburton...he barely plays club rugby end of story!

It isn't really that different though and especially now that the league and European qualification is different to the past with qualification for Europe on merit.

CatFromHue · 14-02-2016 09:10PM

Hagz wrote: »

Strange because Conor O'Shea was talking about how careers are short and that if Henshaw went to Leinster for more money you can't begrudge him. You would think Conor O'Shea would be very much in the know.

I'd agree COS knows alot about rugby but not so sure on how much he knows about how contracts are negotiated in Ireland. He's been out of Irish rugby, and club rugby, a long time now.

hogandrew · 14-02-2016 09:12PM

Hagz wrote: »

Strange because Conor O'Shea was talking about how careers are short and that if Henshaw went to Leinster for more money you can't begrudge him. You would think Conor O'Shea would be very much in the know.

There's also sponsorship to take into account. So he could be on exactly the same contract but expect bigger deals playing for Leinster. He could also want to go to ucd, have a girlfriend in Dublin, thinks he can win more at Leinster, dislikes pat lam or any number of reasons.

If it is financially based I wouldn't blame him either. I like my job but I'd move for better money too

The Rape of Lucretia · 14-02-2016 09:13PM

Bazzo wrote: »

Grand, you won't mind providing some evidence of that so? Because there's plenty to the contrary. He had played 13 but his main position was 15.

Does it really matter where their developmental rugby was played ?

Entirely different world, requirements, development levels, coaching, etc.

Surely at Henshaws age, his time spent playing top flight rugby with and against other full international level players and teams, and with top level full time coaches, is far more influential that where he spent his time at lower levels.

I think BOD played scrum half for a time at school. Darce was a fullback as I remember. Etc.

CatFromHue · 14-02-2016 09:14PM

Maybe he's a big fan of Love/Hate and the recent gangland shootings just peaked his curiosity about what inner city Dublin is really like.

swiwi_ · 14-02-2016 09:14PM

awec wrote: »

It's terrible player management no matter what the circumstances unless Henshaw is coming to Leinster to play 13. Way more advantageous for Ireland for Henshaw to stay at Connacht.

It's really not. I'm only surprised it has taken this long.

If there's any terrible player management, it's the number of quality centres at Ulster.

Actually, I saw your letter to the Times the other day imploring Connacht to be allowed to take one of your centres. Fair play to you awec, very magnanimous.

Buer · 14-02-2016 09:15PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'd agree COS knows alot about rugby but not so sure on how much he knows about how contracts are negotiated in Ireland. He's been out of Irish rugby, and club rugby, a long time now.

I wouldn't say he'd have much more knowledge than any other coach in the Premiership at this stage. He has been in London since before Irish rugby went professional 20 years ago.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

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