Strong garda presence at Galway Airport amid illegal Traveller encampment

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 01:13PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Ignorant, biased bollocksology!

I have traveller friends who are loyal, decent & hard working.

They are moral, religious, show more respect for their elders & have more of a family bond then most settled families would.

There are good & bad in all walks of life, don't paint all travellers with the same brush in order to justify your bias.

The settled communities have as many undesirables & criminals within their ranks, if not statistically more considering head count ratios per community.

Criminality is not the exclusive domain of the travelling community, though most people would have us believe otherwise.

So that is why, according to The Irish Penal Reform Trust, that even though they make up just 0.6% of the population, traveller men are between five and 11 times more likely to be imprisoned, while women are up to 22 times more at risk of prison.

Get real.

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 01:22PM

galljga1 wrote: »

So that is why, according to The Irish Penal Reform Trust, that even though they make up just 0.6% of the population, traveller men are between five and 11 times more likely to be imprisoned, while women are up to 22 times more at risk of prison.

Get real.

Link?

Yet you do acknowledge that travellers account for only 0.6% of the Irish prison population

Kind of screwed the pooch on your own BS prejudice methinks...

Who needs to get real? :rolleyes:

BMJD · 13-02-2016 01:25PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Yet you do acknowledge that travellers account for only 0.6% of the Irish prison population

Try reading the post again

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 01:26PM

BMJD wrote: »

Try reading the post again

Enlighten me...

BMJD · 13-02-2016 01:28PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Enlighten me...

Those words on the screen a few posts up, read them again

TerrorFirmer · 13-02-2016 01:29PM

Are you actually that ignorant? Statistically, travellers are multiple times more likely to be imprisoned than the non-traveller population. That's cold fact, not 'prejudice'.

The Travelers at the center of this particular case - there are 9 families, and while I've no doubt that some of those families are genuine, honest people who just want a home, there are families within that group that have a) wrecked housing previously and b) refused housing.

Yesterday, they broke a massive concrete barrier to gain access to an airport site. Today, they're camped at City Hall, blockading the place. Last week, they were illegally camped at the side of the road in the west side of the city, causing serious disruption.

There was an arranged meeting last week to discuss the issue and not one traveller family turned up to that meeting.

I take people as they come. I don't particularly have an opinion on travellers. But to willfully ignore the facts and claim that anyone who has an issue with this behavior or a not-insignificant element of Traveller society is 'prejudice' and 'racist' and whatever else, is just astounding ignorance.

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 01:40PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Are you actually that ignorant? Statistically, travellers are multiple times more likely to be imprisoned than the non-traveller population. That's cold fact, not 'prejudice'.

The Travelers at the center of this particular case - there are 9 families, and while I've no doubt that some of those families are genuine, honest people who just want a home, there are families within that group that have a) wrecked housing previously and b) refused housing.

Yesterday, they broke a massive concrete barrier to gain access to an airport site. Today, they're camped at City Hall, blockading the place. Last week, they were illegally camped at the side of the road in the west side of the city, causing serious disruption.

There was an arranged meeting last week to discuss the issue and not one traveller family turned up to that meeting.

I take people as they come. I don't particularly have an opinion on travellers. But to willfully ignore the facts and claim that anyone who has an issue with this behavior or a not-insignificant element of Traveller society is 'prejudice' and 'racist' and whatever else, is just astounding ignorance.

THEN WHY DO THEY STATISTICALLY MAKE UP 0.6% OF THE IRISH PRISON POPULATION IF THE OTHER 99.4% IS STATISTICALLY COMPOSED OF MEMBERS OF THE SETTLED COMMUNITY?

I do not willfully ignore the facts & neither have I claimed "that anyone who has an issue with this behavior or a not-insignificant element of Traveller society is 'prejudice' and 'racist'"...

I am saying exactly what you purport in that the whole community should not be tarred with the same brush due to the actions of other members of their community.

Comments the likes of, "Scumbags are scumbags because of their actions. With our travelling brethren, they have been brought up to be scumbags, no traits or predisposition required.", is just pure hate-mongering IMHO

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 01:42PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Link?

Yet you do acknowledge that travellers account for only 0.6% of the Irish prison population

Kind of screwed the pooch on your own BS prejudice methinks...

Who needs to get real? :rolleyes:

Link: http://www.iprt.ie/files/IPRT_Travellers_Report_web.pdf

Try re-reading my post: "0.6% of the population" not "prison population"

TerrorFirmer · 13-02-2016 01:44PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

THEN WHY DO THEY STATISTICALLY MAKE UP 0.6% OF THE IRISH PRISON POPULATION IF THE OTHER 99.4% IS STATISTICALLY COMPOSED OF MEMBERS OF THE SETTLED COMMUNITY?

Statistically a far higher percentage of the Traveller population will be incarcerated compared to the non-traveller population.

How are you not getting that?

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 01:44PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

THEN WHY DO THEY STATISTICALLY MAKE UP 0.6% OF THE IRISH PRISON POPULATION IF THE OTHER 99.4% IS STATISTICALLY COMPOSED OF MEMBERS OF THE SETTLED COMMUNITY?

I do not willfully ignore the facts & neither have I claimed "that anyone who has an issue with this behavior or a not-insignificant element of Traveller society is 'prejudice' and 'racist'"...

I am saying exactly what you purport in that the whole community should not be tarred with the same brush due to the actions of other members of their community.

Comments the likes of, "Scumbags are scumbags because of their actions. With our travelling brethren, they have been brought up to be scumbags, no traits or predisposition required.", is just pure hate-mongering IMHO

Please try and comprehend that 0.6% of the population does not mean 0.6% of the prison population.

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 01:45PM

galljga1 wrote: »

Link: http://www.iprt.ie/files/IPRT_Travellers_Report_web.pdf

Try re-reading my post: "0.6% of the population" not "prison population"

Point conceded, thank you.

What is the percentage of the travelling community within the prison population would you know?

Juran · 13-02-2016 01:48PM

I think what bothers people in Ireland is that they aretreated different by the state and the law. Yes, the statistics show highunemployment, high criminal activity, and you only need to use your own eyesand ears to see how they work by intimidating people, being cruel to animals, thieving,disrespecting other people and their property, littering and fly-tipping, and Icould go on for eternity … however asmuch as I’m not a fan of the modern traveller and I despise my hard earned taxmoney to be spent on this group … I do believe the Irish state has contributed hugelyto the problems we see today.
Today’s travellers are a different race to the ‘real’travellers we saw and knew growing up (I’m referring to the travellers pre early1980’s). The state - social welfaredept, gardai, justice dept, courts, dept of agriculture, dept of environment& motor transport, local councils, etc. seem to have one set of laws andrules for the people of Ireland and another set (ie, turning a blind-eye) to moderntraveller, and this is what bothers a lot of people in this country.
Because ofthis, todays travellers’ culture has changed to ‘we’re entitled to it’, ‘it’sout culture so we can get away with it’, ‘the cops won’t bother coming after us’,‘the dole office doesn’t want the hassle so they’ll hand us benefits noquestions asked’, ‘the council will give us land, we’re entitled to it’, ‘surewe don’t have to work, we don’t have to pay tax, we don’t have to pay for rubbishdisposable’ … etc, etc… and this isbeing instilled in their children and they will grow up with the same attitude andculture … and that Irish state (and same can be said about the British state) isfacilitating this culture and attitude every single day.

Travellers of the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s had a distinctculture – and I often hear older people talk fondly of them and their contributionto society in the older days. I fail to see what today’s traveller culture is …most of us have only ever seen the intimidation, thieving, animal cruelly,fly-tipping, etc. I do believe if thestate (ie. Departments and offices named above) treated travellers the same asyou and I that we could see a change (for the better) in the generations oftravellers to come.

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 01:53PM

Juran wrote: »

I think what bothers people in Ireland is that they aretreated different by the state and the law. Yes, the statistics show highunemployment, high criminal activity, and you only need to use your own eyesand ears to see how they work by intimidating people, being cruel to animals, thieving,disrespecting other people and their property, littering and fly-tipping, and Icould go on for eternity … however asmuch as I’m not a fan of the modern traveller and I despise my hard earned taxmoney to be spent on this group … I do believe the Irish state has contributed hugelyto the problems we see today.
Today’s travellers are a different race to the ‘real’travellers we saw and knew growing up (I’m referring to the travellers pre early1980’s). The state - social welfaredept, gardai, justice dept, courts, dept of agriculture, dept of environment& motor transport, local councils, etc. seem to have one set of laws andrules for the people of Ireland and another set (ie, turning a blind-eye) to moderntraveller, and this is what bothers a lot of people in this country.
Because ofthis, todays travellers’ culture has changed to ‘we’re entitled to it’, ‘it’sout culture so we can get away with it’, ‘the cops won’t bother coming after us’,‘the dole office doesn’t want the hassle so they’ll hand us benefits noquestions asked’, ‘the council will give us land, we’re entitled to it’, ‘surewe don’t have to work, we don’t have to pay tax, we don’t have to pay for rubbishdisposable’ … etc, etc… and this isbeing instilled in their children and they will grow up with the same attitude andculture … and that Irish state (and same can be said about the British state) isfacilitating this culture and attitude every single day.

Travellers of the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s had a distinctculture – and I often hear older people talk fondly of them and their contributionto society in the older days. I fail to see what today’s traveller culture is …most of us have only ever seen the intimidation, thieving, animal cruelly,fly-tipping, etc. I do believe if thestate (ie. Departments and offices named above) treated travellers the same asyou and I that we could see a change (for the better) in the generations oftravellers to come.

That's more or less how I see it.

13-02-2016 01:55PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Are you actually that ignorant? Statistically, travellers are multiple times more likely to be imprisoned than the non-traveller population. That's cold fact, not 'prejudice'.

Statistically, black people in the States form a much higher percentage of the prison population than whites.

Yet of course to say this says something about them as a people would be entirely wrong.

Instead, correctly, one should use that stat and think why. Is it possible they are more oppressed, have higher rates of poverty after centuries of oppression and marginalisation, they face discrimination at all levels including education and at the hands of the police etc. etc.

Annasopra · 13-02-2016 02:10PM

galljga1 wrote: »

So that is why, according to The Irish Penal Reform Trust, that even though they make up just 0.6% of the population, traveller men are between five and 11 times more likely to be imprisoned, while women are up to 22 times more at risk of prison.

Get real.

Why?

Why do travellers end up in prison more?

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 02:11PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Why?

Why do travellers end up in prison more?

Because they are involved in more crime?

Annasopra · 13-02-2016 02:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Statistically, black people in the States form a much higher percentage of the prison population than whites.

Yet of course to say this says something about them as a people would be entirely wrong.

Instead, correctly, one should use that stat and think why. Is it possible they are more oppressed, have higher rates of poverty after centuries of oppression and marginalisation, they face discrimination at all levels including education and at the hands of the police etc. etc.

Exactly. It's a huge vicious circle. Travellers are marginalised and oppressed and this can cause huge unemployment, crime and anti social behaviour and then they are further marginalised and oppressed because of all that.

Annasopra · 13-02-2016 02:14PM

galljga1 wrote: »

Because they are involved in more crime?

Why are they involved in more crime?

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 02:17PM

http://www.iprt.ie/contents/2624

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/prison-report-uncovers-traveller-discrimination-269243.html

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 02:18PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Why are they involved in more crime?

Maybe you are better off asking them rather than baiting the trail.

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 02:21PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Exactly. It's a huge vicious circle. Travellers are marginalised and oppressed and this can cause huge unemployment, crime and anti social behaviour and then they are further marginalised and oppressed because of all that.

They are oppressed because of their involvement in crime and anti social behaviour? That's a strange reaction on the part of those who have been on the receiving end of those activities... or maybe not.

wexandproud · 13-02-2016 02:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When someone says "they are scumbags, they are criminals" they are arguing that travellers are a different class of people with a certain trait or predisposition.

I fully agree that they should be treated exactly like every other Irish person ie. no one makes an assumption that they are criminals or scumbags, but the individuals who do wrong get punished as individuals.

the trouble is that they don't want to be treated like every body else . they jump up down about being treated the same but in reality they don't want this as it does not fit in with their culture . Every chance they get it's , oh our culture this , our culture the other , what about our rights . When do we ever hear them shouting about their responsibility's . All i can say is any of them i ever met were scumbags.

Annasopra · 13-02-2016 02:27PM

galljga1 wrote: »

Maybe you are better off asking them rather than baiting the trail.

Ah OK. So you just want to do a pointless keyboard warrior rant and not have a genuine discussion here. Gotcha.

Graces7 · 13-02-2016 02:29PM

This week here in Killarney this has come to light....http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/killarney-travellers-in-dire-living-conditions-27362480.html The photos showed how bad this is and with children there. These properties are owned by the council who have whether you approve of that or not, taken responsibility for the travellers living accommodation. A responsibility which they are shamefully neglecting , which in itself is discrimination. Children are at risk. Shameful indeed. But then they are only Travellers? Small wonder there are problems when they are treated like this. And who can forget or forgive Carrickmines? Treating grieving families like that.

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 02:31PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ah OK. So you just want to do a pointless keyboard warrior rant and not have a genuine discussion here. Gotcha.

It's pretty much black and white to me. I am not interested in any sob sob background story, lack of education, parental guidance, societal oppression etc. You do the crime, you do the time.

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 02:35PM

I don't understand how people bend over backwards to defend these low life criminals. I wonder what their opinion would be if they planned to put a halting site beside their home.

If these people want to live in their own filth, contribute nothing to society, refuse to be educated, beat and abuse women and engage in criminal activity then that's their own business. But don't expect the tax payer to fund them along the way.

I have never had a positive experience with a traveller in my life time and that is the general consensus with many family and friends.

Expecting people to contribute to society and pay their way does not make one a racist. The term racist is consistently used in these type of topics to shut down discussion.

13-02-2016 02:38PM

galljga1 wrote: »

It's pretty much black and white to me. I am not interested in any sob sob background story, lack of education, parental guidance, societal oppression etc. You do the crime, you do the time.

Absolutely.

I don't think anyone has argued that they should be let off because of the issues they face.

What I object to is the assumption the wrongs by individuals means we can label the entire community. Or why we should not engage in an analysis of why crime rates are higher.

Crime rates are higher amongst black people in the States, native Americans, indigenous Australians, travellers...is there not some point where we can join the dots and see that it might not be simply a question of washing our hands and saying "it's their problem, they're all scumbags"

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 02:39PM

Graces7 wrote: »

This week here in Killarney this has come to light....http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/killarney-travellers-in-dire-living-conditions-27362480.html The photos showed how bad this is and with children there. These properties are owned by the council who have whether you approve of that or not, taken responsibility for the travellers living accommodation. A responsibility which they are shamefully neglecting , which in itself is discrimination. Children are at risk. Shameful indeed. But then they are only Travellers? Small wonder there are problems when they are treated like this. And who can forget or forgive Carrickmines? Treating grieving families like that.

I whole heartedly commend and support the residents in Carrickmines for their actions. I wouldn't want them living beside me in a million years regardless of the circumstances.

13-02-2016 02:39PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

http://www.iprt.ie/contents/2624

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/prison-report-uncovers-traveller-discrimination-269243.html

In my opinion, the single biggest issue is the lack of willingness to engage in education. If your culture involves pulling all kids out of education at a young age, of course they will statistically be far more likely to be unemployed or engaging in crime - because you've denied them the opportunity of any other life.

Pulling children out of education is child abuse and it denies the child a chance to ever know anything about the world outside of an extremely myopic view of how the world is. And I feel this is particularly pertinent with the females, as they become trapped and essentially enslaved to the men without education providing the tools for a chance of any independent life.

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 02:42PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

In my opinion, the single biggest issue is the lack of willingness to engage in education. If your culture involves pulling all kids out of education at a young age, of course they will statistically be far more likely to be unemployed or engaging in crime - because you've denied them the opportunity of any other life.

Pulling children out of education is child abuse and it denies the child a chance to ever know anything about the world outside of an extremely myopic view of how the world is. And I feel this is particularly pertinent with the females, as they become trapped and essentially enslaved to the men without education providing the tools for a chance of any independent life.

Agreed 100%