One billion less to gangland crime?

Azalea · 10-02-2016 07:50PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Oh hunter, I know plenty about cannabis and its effects. I've had broken hands, broken noses and multiple injuries at the hands of another person who would sit there and claim it was harmless. And no, there was not other issues at play either. I lived with him before he started smoking and after he started smoking and he became agitated, paranoid and very easily angered. So, I know plenty of what I'm talking about because I have had to live with it.

Same as a violent alcoholic - doesnt mean that's always the effects of alcohol though.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-02-2016 08:32PM

Azalea wrote: »

Same as a violent alcoholic - doesnt mean that's always the effects of alcohol though.

I never said otherwise. I'm simply stating that isn't not without consequences. It's not more harmless than alcohol. It does affect people's moods, stability and behaviour.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-02-2016 08:42PM

rubadub wrote: »

Was he growing his own and only ever smoking his own? if not you do not have a clue what he was ingesting, which is part of the problem. Your issue could be with synthetic cannabinoids passed off as cannabis, or genuine cannabis laced with these drugs, or laced with other synthetic psychoactive drugs, loads are readily available which would be far more likely to have the effects you speak of. Also was he mixing it with tobacco too?

It would be like saying "that alcohol stuff is terrible, my friend went mental and beat me up and his liver was fcuked and eyesight was damaged" and then it turns out it was industrial alcohols being passed off as alcohol. Which is already common enough even though alcohol is legal. If legal people would have access to regulated controlled supplies, just like alcohol. Some cheapskates would still buy it on the blackmarket, there is no doubt at all about that, and just like alcohol & tobacco they are taking the risk.

What are you saying? I imagined a broken nose? I imagined the doctors trying to send me to a women's hostel so as I wouldn't go back home? He was a heavy cannabis smoker, and it had the head fried off him.
A friend of mine is on the brink of ending her relationship because her partner is back smoking weed and she can't deal with him, he's not abusive, but he's moody, irrational, has no interest in anything anymore and she's had enough of it.

It's the exact same effects on relationships and families as a drink problem. People paint a picture of people smoking weed as a happy, relaxed hungry person with Bob Marley playing in the background but that's not how it is for a lot of people.

I have no doubt a joint or two recreationally is no big deal, but for a lot of people - and not just the users - cannabis abuse is very very real. So you can come along and dismiss my experiences all you like, suggest he wasn't smoking weed, or that his weed was laced, but you don't know that, just as much as I don't know if it was pure weed he was smoking.

Junkyard Tom · 10-02-2016 08:55PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I have no doubt a joint or two recreationally is no big deal, but for a lot of people - and not just the users - cannabis abuse is very very real.

We shouldn't conflate recreational use with drug abuse. Nobody is pro drug abuse. Alcohol abuse is considered a medical/social issue as any form of drug abuse should be.

lertsnim · 10-02-2016 09:01PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Rather than making the state the drug dealers how about just put resources in to tackling gangland activities?

Oh please. The so called war on drugs is an absolute failure and throwing money at it is pissing it away.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-02-2016 09:06PM

lertsnim wrote: »

Oh please. The so called war on drugs is an absolute failure and throwing money at it is pissing it away.

Sure what about Coke too? Heroin maybe?? I mean why not make something truely addictive legal, since addicts will buy more drugs and therefore bring in more money. So many addicts already, no point trying to fight it. Free drugs for all.

gandalf · 10-02-2016 09:15PM

Bailee CoolS Video wrote: »

Legalising marijuana would lead to get its own issues though, such as a sudden influx of dreadlocked didgeridoo players and ethnic knitwear merchants.

I used to live in Galway and you can barely recognise the place after it was flooded with monged-up hashheads and smoke stick slavers. Legalising it would only make it worse.

Legalise it in Leitrim, kill two birds with one stone. People can buy marijuana legally and it will increase the population of Leitrim with crusties

The One Doctor · 10-02-2016 09:56PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Oh hunter, I know plenty about cannabis and its effects. I've had broken hands, broken noses and multiple injuries at the hands of another person who would sit there and claim it was harmless. And no, there was not other issues at play either. I lived with him before he started smoking and after he started smoking and he became agitated, paranoid and very easily angered. So, I know plenty of what I'm talking about because I have had to live with it.

With the greatest of respect, it really is a lot less harmful than alcohol in general, but it can still be abused. To be blunt, it really depends on what exactly the person is ingesting and their mental make up. I really doubt I'd be sane after a few years of cannabis abuse (lots of mental illness in my family), so I don't use it.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Sure what about Coke too? Heroin maybe?? I mean why not make something truely addictive legal, since addicts will buy more drugs and therefore bring in more money. So many addicts already, no point trying to fight it. Free drugs for all.

There are plenty of truly addictive legal drugs. Caffiene, nicotene, alcohol, theobromine (aka chocolate)

Dohnjoe · 10-02-2016 11:24PM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

It does need more research but it can be hard to trust research.

I remember a keen smoking friend of mine falling into the classic trap; anything that painted weed in a positive light was a correct objective study, anything that portrayed negative effects was government propaganda

With legalisation starting to happen across the US, we'll see such studies increase. There are a decent amount we can trust from accredited sources with proper expertise.

Weed is unfortunately tied to consumption of tobacco, which is the big killer, up to 40 carcinogens in the purest tobacco leaf (and higher risk of mouth, esophageal and throat cancers if using rollies)

There are some serious double standards indeed (like you mentioned with alcohol), but having been a regular smoker myself it's not something I would recommend to others based on health reasons, the biggest concerns are; quantity of tobacco consumed (best without) and potential long term mental health issues

end of the road · 10-02-2016 11:44PM

Shermanator wrote: »

Why don't we just use the "Mandatory" 10 yr jail sentence for the larger drug arrest ?

because it would be a waste of time and money.

Stinicker wrote: »

Flick of a pen, bring back the Death Penalty for Drug dealers and traffickers, mandatory prison sentences for possesion

tried, failed, move on. stop pissing away money on a failure.

Stinicker wrote: »

liberal do gooders and hippy types rabel rabel could do with a good dose of porridge to wake them up a bit.

ah, always the old buzz terms and retterick. prohibition has failed. it has cost billions for no return what soever.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Sure what about Coke too? Heroin maybe?? I mean why not make something truely addictive legal, since addicts will buy more drugs and therefore bring in more money.

yes, legalise the lot starting with the smaller drugs. we have tried criminalisation, it has been a failure and a money sink hole

LexieOnRale wrote: »

So many addicts already, no point trying to fight it. Free drugs for all.

lets not be hysterical. i would agree they're is no point in fighting something that cannot be faught. we have to cut costs and bring in more revenue.

Benteke · 11-02-2016 12:35AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Sure what about Coke too? Heroin maybe?? I mean why not make something truely addictive legal, since addicts will buy more drugs and therefore bring in more money. So many addicts already, no point trying to fight it. Free drugs for all.

It works in Portugal

steddyeddy · 11-02-2016 12:51AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

sounds more like crack than cannabis

I think the lady has a fair idea of what she lived through.

lertsnim · 11-02-2016 02:08AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Sure what about Coke too? Heroin maybe?? I mean why not make something truely addictive legal, since addicts will buy more drugs and therefore bring in more money. So many addicts already, no point trying to fight it. Free drugs for all.

The war on drugs is proven to be a waste of time. But hey, if a childish retort is all you can muster then run along.

worded · 11-02-2016 02:27AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

They dont say that cannabis use causes schizophrenia but it can bring it on in people who are predisposed to it.

I saw a documentary on this fact. Approx 3 out of 10 ppl are genitically predisposed to schizophrenia via canabis

They know in advance by a brain scan if you will / will not be affected

Strains are now so strong compared to years ago

Some types have way too much TCH and lack the counterbalance - I can't recall what its abreviation is

Anyway - be careful out there, particularly if you have a young developing brain aged between 12-18 that's when it does the most damage

Huntergonzo · 11-02-2016 10:37AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Sure what about Coke too? Heroin maybe?? I mean why not make something truely addictive legal, since addicts will buy more drugs and therefore bring in more money. So many addicts already, no point trying to fight it. Free drugs for all.

Many truly addictive things are already legal such alcohol, tobacco, coffee, sugar, chocolate, salt etc etc You also have medical Heroin = morphine and you could throw in the synthetic methadone as well, among many other things.

I struggle far far more with cravings for fast food (and salt in particular, I have a serious salt problem) than I do for any drug (don't know if I've ever really craved a drug, they're not all that tasty) and they're both just as easily available to me, which is laughable considering certain drugs are supposed to be illegal.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 11-02-2016 10:47AM

How many dumb kids start smoking at 14/15 because they're easy to buy and easy accessible? And many of them are still smoking because they can't stop.
Kids try dumb ****, we've all done it.

And I'm pretty sure once you are late teens/early 20s it's easier to find illegal drugs. I don't take drugs but if I was looking to buy a 50 bag today, I'd have 3 or 4 people I could call. And that's just people I know, not people I'd have to seek out.

When I was 15/16 I didn't even know what weed smelled like, much less where to buy it. You'd hope by the time people are old enough to find it, they'd be old enough to know the risks and be careful.

So many people in the town I'm from have died because of drugs in the past year.
Overdoses, suicides because of drug debts. Drugs are ruining people's lives.
I'm not completely anti drugs either by the way, I'd be of the opinion, everything in moderation, but simple facts are they do ruin lives, and ruin families. Don't see why a government should encourage it.

Huntergonzo · 11-02-2016 10:55AM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I remember a keen smoking friend of mine falling into the classic trap; anything that painted weed in a positive light was a correct objective study, anything that portrayed negative effects was government propaganda

I agree smokers can look at it with very green tinted glasses, I've seen the same myself among a few of my mates. Listen I don't take too serious anybody who tells me cannabis is this wonder drug with nothing but benefits (although I do believe it has some medical benefits) but also I don't believe anybody who tells me how harmful it is.

When I posted that it can be hard to believe research I was more or less referring to the documentary 'America's Stoned Kids', which was presented as a balanced study hosted by a professional psychologist. But even from the emotive title you can see that cannabis is the enemy right from the start and this shíte went out all over the UK on BBC and in Ireland on RTE, I mean this sort of extremely biased nonsense is not on, especially when it's deviously presented as 'balanced'.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There are some serious double standards indeed (like you mentioned with alcohol), but having been a regular smoker myself it's not something I would recommend to others based on health reasons, the biggest concerns are; quantity of tobacco consumed (best without) and potential long term mental health issues

I agree, I wouldn't recommend drugs to anyone, to quote Hunter S Thompson: "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." :-)

Tony EH · 11-02-2016 12:18PM

The same Mr Thompson that ended up blowing his head off at 67.

He's not somebody to emulate for anything.

Maximus Alexander · 11-02-2016 12:27PM

Makes sense to me.

Take money from criminals -> Add money to state coffers -> Reduce costs associated with prosecuting harmless weed smokers -> Use additional cash to fund Garda operations -> Ireland is a slightly better place to be.

Huntergonzo · 11-02-2016 12:32PM

Tony EH wrote: »

The same Mr Thompson that ended up blowing his head off at 67.

He's not somebody to emulate for anything.

Ah here come on it's just a funny little quote, don't take it too seriously.

dont bother · 11-02-2016 12:51PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

What are you saying? I imagined a broken nose? I imagined the doctors trying to send me to a women's hostel so as I wouldn't go back home? He was a heavy cannabis smoker, and it had the head fried off him.
A friend of mine is on the brink of ending her relationship because her partner is back smoking weed and she can't deal with him, he's not abusive, but he's moody, irrational, has no interest in anything anymore and she's had enough of it.

It's the exact same effects on relationships and families as a drink problem. People paint a picture of people smoking weed as a happy, relaxed hungry person with Bob Marley playing in the background but that's not how it is for a lot of people.

I have no doubt a joint or two recreationally is no big deal, but for a lot of people - and not just the users - cannabis abuse is very very real. So you can come along and dismiss my experiences all you like, suggest he wasn't smoking weed, or that his weed was laced, but you don't know that, just as much as I don't know if it was pure weed he was smoking.

without sounding harsh Lexie, it doesnt sound like weed is to blame, it just comes off as you and your friend are picking scumbags to date/go out with. they both sounds like scum and that's probably more the reason they're angry lads. maybe your friend was a melter and he wanted out of the relationship anyway?

do they take any other drugs? alcohol? coke? i'd hazard a guess and say that they are scum and that's more why they act like that. fair enough weed probably agitates it, but the end of the day it's their upbringing and who they are as a person that caused what happened in your situation, not the weed.

Tony EH · 11-02-2016 12:52PM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Ah here come on it's just a funny little quote, don't take it too seriously.

I'm not.

It was dark humour.

Still though, Hunter S Thompson was a twat.

Tony EH · 11-02-2016 12:55PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Makes sense to me.

Take money from criminals -> Add money to state coffers -> Reduce costs associated with prosecuting harmless weed smokers -> Use additional cash to fund Garda operations -> Ireland is a slightly better place to be.

Except that's all a smokescreen.

Advocates of legalisation, simply want to make their drug of choice easier to get hold of and free of the law's interference.

Anything else is simply bullshit.

Junkyard Tom · 11-02-2016 01:04PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Advocates of legalisation, simply want to make their drug of choice easier to get hold of

Argument from Motives
The fallacy of declaring a standpoint or argument invalid solely because of the evil, corrupt or questionable motives of the one making the claim.

and free of the law's interference.

Appeal to law fallacy.
This fallacy occurs when one equates legislation with morality. In other words, if something is illegal, it must be morally wrong. Conversely, if something is legal, it must be morally right.

Maximus Alexander · 11-02-2016 01:17PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Except that's all a smokescreen.

Advocates of legalisation, simply want to make their drug of choice easier to get hold of and free of the law's interference.

Anything else is simply bullshit.

I don't even use cannabis. Hell, I barely drink alcohol. Prohibition doesn't make sense though - advocates just want to protect the status quo out of fear rather than reason, because anything outside their existing safety bubble scares them too much. There's a zeal reminiscent of religious fervor associated with this, where critical thinking takes a back seat to gut feelings. (We can all make crass generalizations)

Azalea · 11-02-2016 01:19PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Except that's all a smokescreen.

Advocates of legalisation, simply want to make their drug of choice easier to get hold of and free of the law's interference.

Anything else is simply bullshit.

Wrong. I don't smoke cannabis and never will. Still think it should be at least decriminalised as it's utterly pitiful that it's a crime.

Tony EH · 11-02-2016 01:30PM

I couldn't give a shit about cannabis, legal or not, tbh. It's never really done anything for me, but I have seen a good few people become stupidly obsessed by it.

I simply don't buy all the smokescreens.

People want to make their drug of choice easier to get hold of and eliminate the threat of conviction, which is a perfectly ok stance to have, in my opinion.

Pretending it's mainly about something else, though, isn't going to fly.

dont bother · 11-02-2016 01:31PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I couldn't give a shit about cannabis, legal or not, tbh. It's never really done anything for me, but I have seen a good few people become stupidly obsessed by it.

I simply don't buy all the smokescreens.

People want to make their drug of choice easier to get hold of and eliminate the threat of conviction, which is a perfectly ok stance to have, in my opinion.

Pretending it's mainly about something else, though, isn't going to fly.

but it's as easy to get now as if it were sold in the shop. in fact it's EASIER to get hold of it now than if it was legalized, as if it was being sold in shops KIDS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BUY IT

DUH!

Maximus Alexander · 11-02-2016 01:33PM

So basically you'd rather put your fingers in your ears, ignore what other people are saying to you, completely misrepresent their motives, and repeat yourself than have a discussion? Why even bother so?

Azalea · 11-02-2016 01:38PM

Smokescreens even by people who don't smoke cannabis?

Why does reason disappear from the debate when the extremely obvious (to the point of cliché) alcohol argument is staring us in the face? Alcohol is dangerous when abused - most people manage to drink alcohol without resorting to violence and becoming alcoholics though. How come this is forgotten about when the talk of cannabis destroying society gets brought up? Even by people who enjoy a lot of tipples themselves.

One billion less to gangland crime?

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