One billion less to gangland crime?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Clearly the drug trade is Irish ganglands bread and butter. Legalising marijuana could almost overnight obliterate a sizeable share of their income. With the flick of a pen 100's of millions in extra taxes can be raised and kept out of criminal hands.

It feels like a small simple solution that could lead to solving part of a massive problem.

Colorado marijuana sales skyrocket to $996M in 2015

Thoughts?

kneemos

Criminals by nature,they just diversify.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

kneemos wrote: »

Criminals by nature,they just diversify.

Like the way the Mafia started moving to Vegas a few decades ago and many went 'legitimate'?

That to me is massive progress. Less people get killed.

SEPT 23 1989

Dont think the big players would care they deal in cocaine and heroin where the real money is

4zn76tysfajdxp

Legalising marijuana would lead to get its own issues though, such as a sudden influx of dreadlocked didgeridoo players and ethnic knitwear merchants.

I used to live in Galway and you can barely recognise the place after it was flooded with monged-up hashheads and smoke stick slavers. Legalising it would only make it worse.

baldbear

Its really easy to grown your own weed these days with the internet & purchasing your own little grow house. People should just grow their own

I think legalising marijuana will have zereo results with criminals murdering each other.

Our politicians need to seize criminals assets & put more serveilance on them. Hurt them in the pocket.

Huntergonzo

It makes sense to legalize cannabis, but such is the social stigma attached to it by ridiculous false information and scaremongering, it simply won't happen anytime soon.

Oh but by all means drink up, there's no hypocrisy in that whatsoever ever.

The offically line:

Drink = sensibly
Cannabis = causes schizophrenia and paranoia

Ps, The paranoia claim is a genius piece of propoganda because if you tell someone that something is going to make them paranoid then that in itself can cause paranoia!!!.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Huntergonzo wrote: »

It makes sense to legalize cannabis, but such is the social stigma attached to it by ridiculous false information and scaremongering, it simply won't happen anytime soon.

Oh but by all means drink up, there's no hypocrisy in that whatsoever ever.

The offically line:

Drink = sensibly
Cannabis = causes schizophrenia and paranoia

Ps, The paranoia claim is a genius piece of propoganda because if you tell someone that something is going to make them paranoid then that in itself can cause paranoia!!!.

I don't smoke and have never been caught with any, so I'm hoping I don't have a chip on my shoulder about the issue or an agenda, but it seems so clear cut to me what the right thing to do is.

Less ordinarily law abiding citizens getting convictions.
More people use it as an alternative to drink.
Money that now goes to criminals goes instead to taxes.

= Profit

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I think we have enough problems and anti social behaviour and mental health issues without encouraging more. Weed is not harmless. Rather than making the state the drug dealers how about just put resources in to tackling gangland activities?

Ash.J.Williams

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think we have enough problems and anti social behaviour and mental health issues without encouraging more. Weed is not harmless. Rather than making the state the drug dealers how about just put resources in to tackling gangland activities?

gangland is global and has never been beaten.....and will never be beaten

Huntergonzo

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I don't smoke and have never been caught with any, so I'm hoping I don't have a chip on my shoulder about the issue or an agenda, but it seems so clear cut to me what the right thing to do is.

Less ordinarily law abiding citizens getting convictions.
More people use it as an alternative to drink.
Money that now goes to criminals goes instead to taxes.

= Profit

I'm similar to yourself and this is why I agree with you. I don't smoke cannabis or cigarettes myself but I do enjoy drink.

Now I have occasionally smoked cannabis in the past but I never saw the real attraction to it, it's not bad, but you see I'm tired and hungry at the best of times so cannabis wasn't for me :-)

Having smoked cannabis and knowing plenty of people who still regularly smoke it I can't see how it's more harmful than alcohol, in fact speaking from experience the exact opposite is generally the case. Throw in the fact that prohibition doesn't actually stop access to cannabis (all it really does is make drug dealers richer), then surely the best solution to this problem is legalisation and regulation.

Don't hold your breath on Ireland doing this though.

sligojoek

The war on drugs is over.

Drugs won.

Huntergonzo

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think we have enough problems and anti social behaviour and mental health issues without encouraging more. Weed is not harmless. Rather than making the state the drug dealers how about just put resources in to tackling gangland activities?

If you consider legalisation turning the state into a 'drug dealer' then the state is already a drug dealer because alcohol and tobacco are currently available, legal drugs in this country.

I honestly don't know how much you know about cannabis but it's far less likely to cause anti-social behaviour than other drugs or even by people who aren't on drugs. I'd go as far as to say cannabis would be likely to reduce anti-social behaviour given it's relaxing effects!

Putting more resources into tackling gangland isn't likely to work, see America's ridiculous and enormous waste of money know as the 'war on drugs' as an example of this.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Oh hunter, I know plenty about cannabis and its effects. I've had broken hands, broken noses and multiple injuries at the hands of another person who would sit there and claim it was harmless. And no, there was not other issues at play either. I lived with him before he started smoking and after he started smoking and he became agitated, paranoid and very easily angered. So, I know plenty of what I'm talking about because I have had to live with it.

Little CuChulainn

A flick of a pen? I hate this simplification. Portugal decriminalised possession. That system is good for tackling the users in a non criminal manner but it doesn't affect the organised crime aspect. The criminals still sell the drugs. But let us say for the sake of argument you just legalise the whole industry. How would it be any different? Criminals would still run it. You'd have to regulate the whole industry, from point of manufacture to point of sale. I'd argue that takes more than simply the flick of a pen.

Even if you did manage to regulate the entire industry, there would still have to be some method of deciding who can buy what. You'd still need to enforce these rules somehow too. Some drugs are dangerous to people. That's why we have a prescription medication system in the country.

I'm just curious how much thought you've put into your flick of a pen idea.

Incidentally, the profit margin on marijuana is pretty small. Ecstasy and cocaine are the big money drugs.

Huntergonzo

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Oh hunter, I know plenty about cannabis and its effects. I've had broken hands, broken noses and multiple injuries at the hands of another person who would sit there and claim it was harmless. And no, there was not other issues at play either. I lived with him before he started smoking and after he started smoking and he became agitated, paranoid and very easily angered. So, I know plenty of what I'm talking about because I have had to live with it.

Sorry to hear that, that's absolutely awful and I hope you're well away from that scumbag. I don't think a person like that can blame any drugs for their violence, if that evil streak is in them then it's their own fault!

I don't think cases like this represent the majority of cannabis smokers though, again I know plenty of people who smoke it and I can say with hand on heart that none of them are violent.

In fact, personally I've never seen someone who I knew was stoned getting physically violent, on the other hand, sadly, I've seen many drunk people in fights and some very nasty ones as well. But of course that doesn't mean someone who isn't violent on drink should be prevented from drinking just because other people can't control themselves.

SEPT 23 1989

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Oh hunter, I know plenty about cannabis and its effects. I've had broken hands, broken noses and multiple injuries at the hands of another person who would sit there and claim it was harmless. And no, there was not other issues at play either. I lived with him before he started smoking and after he started smoking and he became agitated, paranoid and very easily angered. So, I know plenty of what I'm talking about because I have had to live with it.

sounds more like crack than cannabis

Pat Mustard

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Portugal decriminalised possession. That system is good for tackling the users in a non criminal manner but it doesn't affect the organised crime aspect. The criminals still sell the drugs. But let us say for the sake of argument you just legalise the whole industry. How would it be any different? Criminals would still run it. You'd have to regulate the whole industry, from point of manufacture to point of sale. I'd argue that takes more than simply the flick of a pen.

You are right. The manufacture and distribution of drugs would still be controlled by criminals unless a number of key countries cooperate to create a workable system.

While it would be preferable to see a sustainable, legal system to control the manufacture, distribution and possession of drugs, it would take a lot of political will and the cooperation of several countries, before such a system could be put in place.

Organised correctly, the potential tax revenue for various governments could be enormous.

In any event, I don't see it happening any time soon.

Dohnjoe

Huntergonzo wrote: »

It makes sense to legalize cannabis, but such is the social stigma attached to it by ridiculous false information and scaremongering, it simply won't happen anytime soon.

There's been objective research on long term regular smoking. You don't have to have smoked with a group of friends for 10 years to know that there are mental side effects.

Like anything, it needs more research.

Should it be legalized? yes, but it won't magically solve social issues, take a trip to Amsterdam, chock full of dealers/criminals under-cutting official prices

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, that's absolutely awful and I hope you're well away from that scumbag. I don't think a person like that can blame any drugs for their violence, if that evil streak is in them then it's their own fault!

I don't think cases like this represent the majority of cannabis smokers though, again I know plenty of people who smoke it and I can say with hand on heart that none of them are violent.

In fact, personally I've never seen someone who I knew was stoned getting physically violent, on the other hand, sadly, I've seen many drunk people in fights and some very nasty ones as well. But of course that doesn't mean someone who isn't violent on drink should be prevented from drinking just because other people can't control themselves.

That's the thing. Plenty of people can go out, get drunk and not be violent, disturb the peace, cause trouble or damage things. But it does exist and it's a massive drain on emergency services. It does cause problems and people who are pro cannabis always trot out how drinking is worse.

Then you have smokers lighting up in cars, kids breathing in second hand smoke and a serious amount of health issues caused by smoking.

This portrayal that cannabis is harmless is simply not true. Would I like to meet a driver stoned on the road, nope. I Certainly wouldn't live with someone who smokes it constantly because it does make people paranoid, it does change a person. Maybe not to the person who smokes two joints at the weekend but when someone gets up and reaches for a joint before he can even go to work, it's a problem. And we have enough problems with legal drugs without going making more problems for ourselves.

Tony EH

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Thoughts?

They'll simply undercut the price.

Mesrine65

LexieOnRale wrote: »

This portrayal that cannabis is harmless is simply not true. Would I like to meet a driver stoned on the road, nope. I Certainly wouldn't live with someone who smokes it constantly because it does make people paranoid, it does change a person.

First of all Lexie let me say that I am appalled at the abuse you suffered & I hope you are in a better place now.

While I understand your views due to your experience, I am inclined to disagree with you to an extent.

I smoke 1gm of cannabis daily & have done so for 30+ years...

I do not suffer from paranoia, it hasn't changed me as a person, I would never ride my motorcycle under the influence & I certainly wouldn't partake of in the company of minors.

Unfortunately not everyone is compatible with cannabis, in the same way as not everyone is compatible with alcohol consumption & basically tolerance is down to the individuals physiology IMHO

Little CuChulainn

Mesrine65 wrote: »

First of all Lexie let me say that I am appalled at the abuse you suffered & I hope you are in a better place now.

While I understand your views due to your experience, I am inclined to disagree with you to an extent.

I smoke 1gm of cannabis daily & have done so for 30+ years...

I do not suffer from paranoia, it hasn't changed me as a person, I would never ride my motorcycle under the influence & I certainly wouldn't partake of in the company of minors.

Unfortunately not everyone is compatible with cannabis, in the same way as not everyone is compatible with alcohol consumption & basically tolerance is down to the individuals physiology IMHO

Just out of curiosity, how long do you leave between smoking your daily joint and driving that you consider yourself to no longer be under the influence.

Mesrine65

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, how long do you leave between smoking your daily joint and driving that you consider yourself to no longer be under the influence.

10+ hours & a Garda roadside test determined I was no longer under the influence.

ohnonotgmail

Huntergonzo wrote: »

It makes sense to legalize cannabis, but such is the social stigma attached to it by ridiculous false information and scaremongering, it simply won't happen anytime soon.

Oh but by all means drink up, there's no hypocrisy in that whatsoever ever.

The offically line:

Drink = sensibly
Cannabis = causes schizophrenia and paranoia

Ps, The paranoia claim is a genius piece of propoganda because if you tell someone that something is going to make them paranoid then that in itself can cause paranoia!!!.

They dont say that cannabis use causes schizophrenia but it can bring it on in people who are predisposed to it.

laugh

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dont think the big players would care they deal in cocaine and heroin where the real money is

Is the real money really in those drugs though? Sure they are more expensive but the volume of cannabis consumed would be far higher.

Huntergonzo

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There's been objective research on long term regular smoking. You don't have to have smoked with a group of friends for 10 years to know that there are mental side effects.

Like anything, it needs more research.

It does need more research but it can be hard to trust research. I watched a 'balanced' programme on cannabis a while back named Americas Stoned Kids (a ridiculous title to start with, obviously aimed at pulling your heartstrings), it was basically 1 hour full of anti-cannabis propaganda.

At one point the host goes to see a doctor (they showed a good close up of her qualifications just to emphasise her credibility) who had carried out a 38 year study on the effects of cannabis use among teenagers (who shouldn't be taking any drugs anyway). Her 38 year study basically amounted to this = chronic smokers in their teens tended not to do as well as those who weren't chronic smokers. I shít you not, that was the jist of her conclusion and it took 38 fúckin years of research to come to that conclusion, something which anybody with half a brain could have told you in less than 38 seconds!

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Should it be legalized? yes, but it won't magically solve social issues, take a trip to Amsterdam, chock full of dealers/criminals under-cutting official prices

I agree and I'm not suggesting it would magically solve our social issues, also I've been to Amsterdam twice and found it a lovely, safe city.

Luke92

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dont think the big players would care they deal in cocaine and heroin where the real money is

1kg of cannabis roughly priced between 8-12 thousand. Sell it in 2 gram 50 bags makes a return of 20,000 with atleast 8,000 profit. Have a big enough customer base you could easily do that every month. That's where the easy money is.

Heroin addicts aren't trustworthy and cocaine is more of a weekend thing.

Cannabis is the money maker.

Huntergonzo

LexieOnRale wrote: »

That's the thing. Plenty of people can go out, get drunk and not be violent, disturb the peace, cause trouble or damage things. But it does exist and it's a massive drain on emergency services. It does cause problems and people who are pro cannabis always trot out how drinking is worse

Then you have smokers lighting up in cars, kids breathing in second hand smoke and a serious amount of health issues caused by smoking

It is worse and I say that as someone who loves a few drinks and doesn't smoke cannabis at all, or tobacco for that matter. Also obviously people shouldn't smoke anything with children in the car.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

This portrayal that cannabis is harmless is simply not true. Would I like to meet a driver stoned on the road, nope. I Certainly wouldn't live with someone who smokes it constantly because it does make people paranoid, it does change a person. Maybe not to the person who smokes two joints at the weekend but when someone gets up and reaches for a joint before he can even go to work, it's a problem. And we have enough problems with legal drugs without going making more problems for ourselves.

I agree with some of that but I'd ask you to take the emotional side out of it, if you don't like cannabis, fine that's your choice, but why deny responsible smokers?

Anyway I agree that cannabis isn't harmless, I'm no doctor but I doubt any drug is totally harmless. Also people shouldn't drive around stoned and if you need a joint just to get out of the bed in the morning that could very well be a problem, but do these cases represent the majority of smokers, I doubt it.

I disagree that it makes people paranoid and changes a person, I'm sorry to hear your own personal troubles but again that's a sweeping statement, it's doesn't represent all smokers.

Hammer89

Mesrine65 wrote: »

10+ hours & a Garda roadside test determined I was no longer under the influence.

Did he dangle a six pack of Burger Bites in front of you to check if you were stoned or not?

warpdrive

Luke92 wrote: »

1kg of cannabis roughly priced between 8-12 thousand. Sell it in 2 gram 50 bags makes a return of 20,000 with atleast 8,000 profit. Have a big enough customer base you could easily do that every month. That's where the easy money is.

Heroin addicts aren't trustworthy and cocaine is more of a weekend thing.

Cannabis is the money maker.

€50 for 2g? Lol that's a ripoff

Jimlh86

I am neither a Doctor or a psychologist, but I have 6+ years of working on a drug unit. I am on the fence when it comes to legalisation of Cannabis.

I have however noticed this, the older generation say 35+ (sorry if this insults people over 35) smoke in moderation i.e a joint or two in the evening after work of whatever. It probably isn't doing huge amounts of harm but again I'm not a doctor.

But here's the thing younger users say teens to early twenties are getting a 50 bag and sitting down and smoking until the bag is gone! Then as soon as they have the cash do the same again! They are smoking stronger more chemically enhanced strains! I recall opening a jar of home grown weed and it honestly smelled like weed killer. That chap is still in a dept of psychiatry and probably isn't getting out.

From my experience I think in the next 10 years or so we are going to see massive mental health implications in this country due to cannabis abuse. Day to day in my job I am already starting to see the effects.

Again medically I'm not in anyway qualified to say that but just my tuppence worth.

Autonomous Cowherd

The whole driving on drugs thing is a bit of a laugh when you consider how very very many people are driving under the daily influence of prescription drugs that definitely do affect people's judgement and reaction time, etc. I have tried both...I would not drive on dope, but neither would I like to be driving on prescription anxiolytics. And yet tens of thousands do.... of course the doctor gave them out, so it must be grand.
As for people turning into monsters on weed, it would be an anomaly. Personal anecdotal evidence is not useful for making universal law. If people are monstrous on weed, you could say it was their Cheerios made them so....in other words, it is an underlying mental issue with them that would be there in the presence or absence of intoxicants. The dis-inhibition simply allows the monster to come out, but did not create it in the first place. An addictive personality is a symptom of something deeper.
People who get paranoid on weed (often as a result of a ragwort allergy) simply drop the practice of using it. Why would they keep it up when it feels so horrible? People who get ugly on drink seem to plough on with that drug.
For all those anti-legalisation, read up the real stats on crime and usage in Portugal, USA etc, and just let the logic of it all sink in.

Autonomous Cowherd

Jimlh86 wrote: »

I am neither a Doctor or a psychologist, but I have 6+ years of working on a drug unit. I am on the fence when it comes to legalisation of Cannabis.

I have however noticed this, the older generation say 35+ (sorry if this insults people over 35) smoke in moderation i.e a joint or two in the evening after work of whatever. It probably isn't doing huge amounts of harm but again I'm not a doctor.

But here's the thing younger users say teens to early twenties are getting a 50 bag and sitting down and smoking until the bag is gone! Then as soon as they have the cash do the same again! They are smoking stronger more chemically enhanced strains! I recall opening a jar of home grown weed and it honestly smelled like weed killer. That chap is still in a dept of psychiatry and probably isn't getting out.

From my experience I think in the next 10 years or so we are going to see massive mental health implications in this country due to cannabis abuse. Day to day in my job I am already starting to see the effects.

Again medically I'm not in anyway qualified to say that but just my tuppence worth.

Yes, I agree. Modern strains have been bred to increase the intoxication levels without the moderation of the ordinary plant. It is and will be a problem.

warpdrive

Jimlh86 wrote: »

I am neither a Doctor or a psychologist, but I have 6+ years of working on a drug unit. I am on the fence when it comes to legalisation of Cannabis.

I have however noticed this, the older generation say 35+ (sorry if this insults people over 35) smoke in moderation i.e a joint or two in the evening after work of whatever. It probably isn't doing huge amounts of harm but again I'm not a doctor.

But here's the thing younger users say teens to early twenties are getting a 50 bag and sitting down and smoking until the bag is gone! Then as soon as they have the cash do the same again! They are smoking stronger more chemically enhanced strains! I recall opening a jar of home grown weed and it honestly smelled like weed killer. That chap is still in a dept of psychiatry and probably isn't getting out.

From my experience I think in the next 10 years or so we are going to see massive mental health implications in this country due to cannabis abuse. Day to day in my job I am already starting to see the effects.

Again medically I'm not in anyway qualified to say that but just my tuppence worth.

We are if it continues how it currently is because there's no regulation and quality control. The current criminal producers are purely aiming to make the strongest THC strains as possible and buyers are fooled into thinking being absolutely stoned out of their minds is the only point of smoking weed and the cycle continues. Most people here wouldn't even know the difference between Sativa's and indica's, possibly even some of the dealers as well, people are just buying whatever's available so we're going nowhere really.

Junkyard Tom

I gave up on the 'legalise weed' debate because trying to rationalise with those who are against legalisation is like trying to discuss evolution with a creationist.

There is no 'war' on drugs - it's a war against people.

Mesrine65

Hammer89 wrote: »

Did he dangle a six pack of Burger Bites in front of you to check if you were stoned or not?

Curiously enough, I don't get the munchies :eek:

Little CuChulainn

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

The whole driving on drugs thing is a bit of a laugh when you consider how very very many people are driving under the daily influence of prescription drugs that definitely do affect people's judgement and reaction time, etc. I have tried both...I would not drive on dope, but neither would I like to be driving on prescription anxiolytics. And yet tens of thousands do.... of course the doctor gave them out, so it must be grand.

Both are illegal

Little CuChulainn

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I gave up on the 'legalise weed' debate because trying to rationalise with those who are against legalisation is like trying to discuss evolution with a creationist.

There is no 'war' on drugs - it's a war against people.

I've given up on debating it in most cases because I find both sides to be equally stubborn and dismissive.

Ash.J.Williams

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I gave up on the 'legalise weed' debate because trying to rationalise with those who are against legalisation is like trying to discuss evolution with a creationist.

There is no 'war' on drugs - it's a war against people.

i find both side are absolute pains in the hole

Ash.J.Williams

Jimlh86 wrote: »

I am neither a Doctor or a psychologist, but I have 6+ years of working on a drug unit. I am on the fence when it comes to legalisation of Cannabis.

I have however noticed this, the older generation say 35+ (sorry if this insults people over 35) smoke in moderation i.e a joint or two in the evening after work of whatever. It probably isn't doing huge amounts of harm but again I'm not a doctor.

But here's the thing younger users say teens to early twenties are getting a 50 bag and sitting down and smoking until the bag is gone! Then as soon as they have the cash do the same again! They are smoking stronger more chemically enhanced strains! I recall opening a jar of home grown weed and it honestly smelled like weed killer. That chap is still in a dept of psychiatry and probably isn't getting out.

From my experience I think in the next 10 years or so we are going to see massive mental health implications in this country due to cannabis abuse. Day to day in my job I am already starting to see the effects.

Again medically I'm not in anyway qualified to say that but just my tuppence worth.

you are correct, there are issues forthcoming and the best way to observe it is psychiatric statistics.

Ash.J.Williams

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, that's absolutely awful and I hope you're well away from that scumbag. I don't think a person like that can blame any drugs for their violence, if that evil streak is in them then it's their own fault!

I don't think cases like this represent the majority of cannabis smokers though, again I know plenty of people who smoke it and I can say with hand on heart that none of them are violent.

In fact, personally I've never seen someone who I knew was stoned getting physically violent, on the other hand, sadly, I've seen many drunk people in fights and some very nasty ones as well. But of course that doesn't mean someone who isn't violent on drink should be prevented from drinking just because other people can't control themselves.

maybe there's a case that regulation can fix the strains of weed, but i also see this regularly. People that smoke every night can get very agitated...when out of their comfort zone

Junkyard Tom

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I've given up on debating it at all because I find both sides to be equally stubborn and dismissive.

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i find both side are absolute pains in the hole

'Both sides' suggests there is some sort of rational argument against legalisation which creates a 'false balance' - there is no rational argument against legalisation.

None.

Mesrine65

Why do non-smokers care whether we smoke or not?

Honest question...

DEFTLEFTHAND

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Like the way the Mafia started moving to Vegas a few decades ago and many went 'legitimate'?

That to me is massive progress. Less people get killed.

Legitimate my arse, they used Casinos as fronts for other activities. Vegas was an awful cesspit of crime and violence when they ruled it.

Little CuChulainn

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'Both sides' suggests there is some sort of rational argument against legalisation which creates a 'false balance' - there is no rational argument against legalisation.

None.

Like I said, stubborn and dismissive.

ScumLord

kneemos wrote: »

Criminals by nature,they just diversify.

It would be impossible for them to diversify into anything that would match the sales they get in cannabis. They couldn't rob enough houses, they couldn't sell enough cocaine, there's literally no replacement for cannabis money. They simply wouldn't be able to support the same level of enterprise that they could with cannabis. It's like telling a gold mining company to stop mining gold and diversify into selling some other metal. Or telling Apple they can't sell the iPhone anymore. They could keep going, but they wouldn't be the same size.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think we have enough problems and anti social behaviour and mental health issues without encouraging more. Weed is not harmless. Rather than making the state the drug dealers how about just put resources in to tackling gangland activities?

Why would the state become drug dealers? They create a regulated industry, from growing, to distribution, to sales to the public, vet everyone.

They could drastically reduce the illegal trade by also legalising the production of hemp on farms. That would pollute the country with hemp pollen making an expensive sealed growing operation the only way to grow the kind of cannabis suitable for medical and recreational uses.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Oh hunter, I know plenty about cannabis and its effects. I've had broken hands, broken noses and multiple injuries at the hands of another person who would sit there and claim it was harmless. And no, there was not other issues at play either. I lived with him before he started smoking and after he started smoking and he became agitated, paranoid and very easily angered. So, I know plenty of what I'm talking about because I have had to live with it.

That's bizarre, I've never in all my years seen cannabis have that effect on people, and I'd be pretty confident I've met a hell of a lot more cannabis users than you. Sorry it happened but that guy had issues and perhaps cannabis was a catalyst for it, but I've never seen cannabis cause that kind of behaviour, so if it does happen it's rare.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The criminals still sell the drugs. But let us say for the sake of argument you just legalise the whole industry. How would it be any different? Criminals would still run it. You'd have to regulate the whole industry, from point of manufacture to point of sale. I'd argue that takes more than simply the flick of a pen.

Your right. It would take some time, it wouldn't be easy, but there's no reason to think criminals would still be running that industry. Mostly because it could be heavily regulated and vetted, plus they'll be paying tax, which criminals don't like doing.

Incidentally, the profit margin on marijuana is pretty small. Ecstasy and cocaine are the big money drugs.

What makes you think the profit margins are small? Cost of production would be the most costly part and even with under lights the cost isn't anything major, sell 2-3 ounces at street value and you've paid off your growing costs. In a legal comercial grow the cost would be even smaller per ounce.

Jimlh86 wrote: »

I am neither a Doctor or a psychologist, but I have 6+ years of working on a drug unit. I am on the fence when it comes to legalisation of Cannabis.

The problem with people that work in jobs like yours is that you only tend to see the worst side of drug abuse. It's not like the rest of the population call in to say their drug experience went fine.

But here's the thing younger users say teens to early twenties are getting a 50 bag and sitting down and smoking until the bag is gone! Then as soon as they have the cash do the same again! They are smoking stronger more chemically enhanced strains! I recall opening a jar of home grown weed and it honestly smelled like weed killer. That chap is still in a dept of psychiatry and probably isn't getting out.

I don't see any reason to believe the weed was "chemically treated" because of the smell. Weed comes in many different smells and it's pungent stuff. I think this idea that we're using some sort of super weed is a bit misleading, science has lead people to be better at growing weed as we get to know the plant better we can get better results out of it. But that's botany for you.

From my experience I think in the next 10 years or so we are going to see massive mental health implications in this country due to cannabis abuse. Day to day in my job I am already starting to see the effects.

I don't see why, cannabis use has been pretty high for the past 10 years at least, and in other countries it's been in use heavily since the 60s. If there were any major mental health implications we'd have seen them somewhere by now.


Bottom line is the fallout from cannabis abuse can't be any worse than the fallout from prohibition and drug funded criminal organisations. We can deal with addiction, we have no solution to industrialised criminal enterprises. It's as simple as that as far as I'm concerned. Either get used to gangland shootings, or legalise drugs.

RobertKK

We should legalise diesel and cigarettes and that would stop the illegal trade in these products...

Junkyard Tom

RobertKK wrote: »

We should legalise diesel and cigarettes and that would stop the illegal trade in these products...

Making them illegal would sure as hell make everything exponentially worse.

whatawaster81

Noonan would tax the weed so heavily like he taxed cigarettes to fund the dysfunctional health service that people would buy it cheaper of criiminals. Like trust the Government to get that right

ScumLord

whatawaster81 wrote: »

Noonan would tax the weed so heavily like he taxed cigarettes to fund the dysfunctional health service that people would buy it cheaper of criiminals. Like trust the Government to get that right

Even if the government matched the 80% tax on cigarettes, that would mean the cheapest weed (when comparing to Amsterdam coffee shop prices) would still come out at less than €10. Which is a cheap price compared to the current street prices. Plus once you add in comercial growing reducing the production cost that price would be even lower, including 80% tax. Criminal enterprise couldn't match legal comercial growing. They'd be priced out of the market pretty quickly.