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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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Comments

  • #3842
    darragh_haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    Dawggone wrote: »
    The level of support/subsidy is not here yet. With COP21 and the new reality of commodities/farm prices, I'm waiting in the wings...

    Same in the Republic. Wait for a decent subsidy or feed in terrific.


  • #3843
    Pacoa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Pacoa


    Christ lads there's a new use for grass.

    https://www.rt.com/news/331997-condoms-grass-thin-strong/


  • #3844
    Deepsouthwest
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭Deepsouthwest


    keep going wrote: »
    What do ye think of using kiwi cross straws

    Using kiwi cross is a little like dipping ur toe in the water. If ur thinking of crossbreeding u need to jump right in and use a full je first time around.


  • #3845
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Dawggone wrote: »
    For 'small' cows it should be adequate. :)

    The %starch is important. Whatever your analysis is subtract circa 4 or 5% as that is cellulose and of no use...

    Maize goes off after about 24hrs so fresh every day.
    Btw maize is easily re-pitted.
    I've 11t in the yard. Might take me a wk to use it. Will it be okay?


  • #3846
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    I've 11t in the yard. Might take me a wk to use it. Will it be okay?

    No it's going to heat like fcuk. Get through it asap and commit one way or the other to buying maize. As dawg said it can be repitted handily enough so buy what you'll want and put it if that's what you want. Some very iffy maize crops out there from last year. Price based on analysis would be my thinking. Give him half of the price agreed for X analysis and the balance based on how the product stacks up to the target.

    Dawg is probably right on the cellulose but I've never heard it quoted here in relation to the starch figure. 30% starch and 30% dm should be the base.


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  • #3847
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    freedominacup wrote: »
    No it's going to heat like fcuk. Get through it asap and commit one way or the other to buying maize. As dawg said it can be repitted handily enough so buy what you'll want and put it if that's what you want. Some very iffy maize crops out there from last year. Price based on analysis would be my thinking. Give him half of the price agreed for X analysis and the balance based on how the product stacks up to the target.

    Dawg is probably right on the cellulose but I've never heard it quoted here in relation to the starch figure. 30% starch and 30% dm should be the base.

    +1.
    Good advice.



    The amount of cellulose depends on the type of maize...forage maize has about 5% cellulose and grain maize could have up to 15%. It's the cellulose content that determines whether it's a forage variety (or not).
    Irish analysis labs lump in the cell% as starch, whereas here it's not inc. iykwim.


    Edit. As a rule of thumb, look at the grains and if there is an indented line across the grain then it's not forage maize.
    I made a small pit of grain maize for a neighbor and it tested at 47% starch and 37%dm with 18.5%cellulose. He feeds it to Charolais cows and they hate it. It is probably like mixing grain maize with pulped wood...


  • #3848
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    I've 11t in the yard. Might take me a wk to use it. Will it be okay?

    Use within 24hrs or pit it immediately. If left for more than 24hrs before pitting it's too late to pit it, unless you want the thermoduric to go through the roof.


  • #3849
    Deepsouthwest
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭Deepsouthwest


    About to open a pit of maize here(pitted in 2014)for the first(and probably the last) time. Also have a pit of first cut grass silage with brewers grains through it. Hope to keep grass in the diet most days weather permitting, and feed this by night roughly 1/2 silage, 1/2 maize.(have a feeder, so no prob mixing it) Does this sound ok? Also v naive question, but is best taken out of the pit with a shear grab or bucket? Any tips appreciated!


  • #3850
    tibrok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42 ✭tibrok


    Dawggone wrote:
    Use within 24hrs or pit it immediately. If left for more than 24hrs before pitting it's too late to pit it, unless you want the thermoduric to go through the roof.


    Just wondering how does what the cows are fed affect thermoduric readings?


  • #3851
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Deepsouthwest wrote: »
    About to open a pit of maize here(pitted in 2014)for the first(and probably the last) time. Also have a pit of first cut grass silage with brewers grains through it. Hope to keep grass in the diet most days weather permitting, and feed this by night roughly 1/2 silage, 1/2 maize.(have a feeder, so no prob mixing it) Does this sound ok? Also v naive question, but is best taken out of the pit with a shear grab or bucket? Any tips appreciated!

    Shear grab and if you want to be really tidy drop the blocks in front of the pit and move them to feeder with the bucket. Air is a maize pits worst nightmare so the tidier the pit face the better. Half and half sounds right. They should have some gra for that mix with the brewers through the silage. You won't have any intake problems on the days you might not get to grass.


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  • #3852
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Deepsouthwest wrote: »
    About to open a pit of maize here(pitted in 2014)for the first(and probably the last) time. Also have a pit of first cut grass silage with brewers grains through it. Hope to keep grass in the diet most days weather permitting, and feed this by night roughly 1/2 silage, 1/2 maize.(have a feeder, so no prob mixing it) Does this sound ok? Also v naive question, but is best taken out of the pit with a shear grab or bucket? Any tips appreciated!

    Might be no harm to feed some of this to the cows near calving as well if you have the space, may help em get up to speed faster after calving


  • #3853
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    tibrok wrote: »
    Just wondering how does what the cows are fed affect thermoduric readings?

    It's a cycle. Frazzled wrote an excellent post on it a while back...

    Basically it's a cycle. The microbes need an anaerobic environment to survive, but bloom when exposed to air. Cow ingests...poops it out...dirty tail...onto udder...into tank...high thermoduric.

    Break the cycle.


  • #3854
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Milked out wrote: »
    Might be no harm to feed some of this to the cows near calving as well if you have the space, may help em get up to speed faster after calving

    I would add that it greatly reduces the possibility of getting acidosis.
    Puts a hard springing on them though and can split the udder.


  • #3855
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Deepsouthwest wrote: »
    Using kiwi cross is a little like dipping ur toe in the water. If ur thinking of crossbreeding u need to jump right in and use a full je first time around.
    Not a big deal, its just that I use gene ireland and could use more than the fifty straws but they will give more kiwi cross.might go for 25 would only result in maybe 4 heifers


  • #3856
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    I might have trouble using it so
    Atm herd demand is at 15 kgs.
    4lg meal drops this to 11kg
    Hoping to get 6kg grass into them during the day.
    That leaves 4kg to fill with maize/grass silage


  • #3857
    billie holiday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭billie holiday


    Cows are on a couple kilos of 21 % protein in the parlour.(Autumn herd)
    74 DMD with a sup of brewers grain mixed through it.
    To cheapen my overall diet was thinking of getting straights to help stretch out remaining silage stocks.
    How many kgs of maize meal could i add to that diet without risking acidosis type problems ??
    Dont really want to bother engaging a nutritionist as theyll be on grass in 4 weeks.


  • #3858
    billie holiday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭billie holiday


    Cows are on a couple kilos of 21 % protein in the parlour.(Autumn herd)
    74 DMD with a sup of brewers grain mixed through it.
    To cheapen my overall diet was thinking of getting straights to help stretch out remaining silage stocks.
    How many kgs of maize meal could i add to that diet without risking acidosis type problems ??
    Dont really want to bother engaging a nutritionist as theyll be on grass in 4 weeks.


  • #3859
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    I might have trouble using it so
    Atm herd demand is at 15 kgs.
    4lg meal drops this to 11kg
    Hoping to get 6kg grass into them during the day.
    That leaves 4kg to fill with maize/grass silage

    You could feed just maize no grass silage if you are getting grass into em. If you have spot to pit, roll it and put plastic over it to keep it airtight and be tasty pulling stuff out of it. I know you have a smaller cow but intakes may be a bit higher with a second forage, sus it out when feeding anyway see if they ll eat more without affecting clean out in paddock


  • #3860
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,055 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Greengrass1 wrote:
    I might have trouble using it so Atm herd demand is at 15 kgs. 4lg meal drops this to 11kg Hoping to get 6kg grass into them during the day. That leaves 4kg to fill with maize/grass silage

    How small a pitt can you make up...?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #3861
    Deepsouthwest
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭Deepsouthwest


    keep going wrote: »
    Not a big deal, its just that I use gene ireland and could use more than the fifty straws but they will give more kiwi cross.might go for 25 would only result in maybe 4 heifers

    25 straws should surely lead to 8 heifers on the ground


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  • #3862
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Markcheese wrote: »
    How small a pitt can you make up...?

    It's in the corner of what was an only indoor silage pit. Built in the 60's. Will just pack it into the corner there and cover it


  • #3863
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Deepsouthwest wrote: »
    About to open a pit of maize here(pitted in 2014)for the first(and probably the last) time. Also have a pit of first cut grass silage with brewers grains through it. Hope to keep grass in the diet most days weather permitting, and feed this by night roughly 1/2 silage, 1/2 maize.(have a feeder, so no prob mixing it) Does this sound ok? Also v naive question, but is best taken out of the pit with a shear grab or bucket? Any tips appreciated!

    Shear grab defo, bucket only makes sh1te of the face. Back of my shear grab is open so I always need to tip the grab down once I have it full or loose maize will fall out the back. Tines on the grab are reasonable closely spaced, maybe 6 inches apart, any less and I'd say you will have maize falling out if it's loosely packed.


  • #3864
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    It's in the corner of what was an only indoor silage pit. Built in the 60's. Will just pack it into the corner there and cover it

    How much maize in the bale?? Sounds like an awful lot of effort if it's only a ton or so? Cows here get 2 shear grabs full per day at the min.


  • #3865
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Timmaay wrote: »
    How much maize in the bale?? Sounds like an awful lot of effort if it's only a ton or so? Cows here get 2 shear grabs full per day at the min.

    It's loose. Contractor has a pit just loaded up the trailer and weighed it at local weigh bridge.
    12.5 t in it


  • #3866
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,780 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    It's loose. Contractor has a pit just loaded up the trailer and weighed it at local weigh bridge.
    12.5 t in it
    How much/tonne is it costing?


  • #3867
    Brown Podzol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    Dawggone wrote: »
    +1.
    Good advice.



    The amount of cellulose depends on the type of maize...forage maize has about 5% cellulose and grain maize could have up to 15%. It's the cellulose content that determines whether it's a forage variety (or not).
    Irish analysis labs lump in the cell% as starch, whereas here it's not inc. iykwim.


    Edit. As a rule of thumb, look at the grains and if there is an indented line across the grain then it's not forage maize.
    I made a small pit of grain maize for a neighbor and it tested at 47% starch and 37%dm with 18.5%cellulose. He feeds it to Charolais cows and they hate it. It is probably like mixing grain maize with pulped wood...

    Went into teagasc relative feed value calculator, http://www.teagasc.ie/calc/FeedStuffs.asp, entered soya at €383 and barley at €190.
    Maize silage between 25/30% starch and 32% dm is worth €47/ton
    Maize silage between 5/15%. Starch and 28%/dm is worth €39/ton

    Taking dm into account starch makes little difference to price. As timmay would say,ha.


  • #3868
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    whelan2 wrote: »
    How much/tonne is it costing?

    50e


  • #3869
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    GG, either get only what you're using delivered daily or pit it. Great feed but really unstable. The steam you see rising is ENERGY.

    I'd forget it and buy maize meal as Irish maize varies from excellent one year in 7 to pure muck for 3 and mediocre for the rest.

    Irish farmers need to grow up re maize, especially dairy farmers as they don't have a clue about feeding soil or the crop, two disciplines that take time to learn.

    Maize meal maize meal end of


  • #3870
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,780 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Out of interest why did you buy maize silage in?


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  • #3871
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Out of interest why did you buy maize silage in?

    No one grows quality silage around here


This discussion has been closed.
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