Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Milked out

The basic issue is yes grass is most practical feed for cows for majority of lactation but to make most of growth period it needs to be grazed early to get it back growing for the second round. Normal years in areas with dry ground lads could get out and cows could make some use of it early on but with recent weather conditions that is impossible for all but a few and the advice printed in the journal is severely lacking when it comes to alternatives given current conditions

Timmaay

Milked out wrote: »

The basic issue is yes grass is most practical feed for cows for majority of lactation but to make most of growth period it needs to be grazed early to get it back growing for the second round. Normal years in areas with dry ground lads could get out and cows could make some use of it early on but with recent weather conditions that is impossible for all but a few and the advice printed in the journal is severely lacking when it comes to alternatives given current conditions

With the insane growth rates this winter, we have the fun situation of heavy covers, too wet to graze out, and in many places god knows how heavy the cover will be by the time conditions are good enough. I'm certainly one of the lucky ones, didn't hold over a huge amount of grass, lower than the teagasc recommended AFC, and could get out mid Jan to have some chance of hitting the 30% grazed out by end of feb. Moving forward I'm still unsure about when the ideal calving start date is, if I can manage to get a decent 6week calving rate then I'd happily not start calving until 7th or 10th of feb, and reduce the time spent on silage during the early lactation, esp given quite poor springs do seem to be more the normal lately. The fine line is ensuring I can still hit the 30% by end of feb, however holding over less covers or grazing heifers over the winter should solve this.

Dawggone

Milked out wrote: »

The basic issue is yes grass is most practical feed for cows for majority of lactation but to make most of growth period it needs to be grazed early to get it back growing for the second round. Normal years in areas with dry ground lads could get out and cows could make some use of it early on but with recent weather conditions that is impossible for all but a few and the advice printed in the journal is severely lacking when it comes to alternatives given current conditions

But but but its grass!!




I saw that video from Curtin's farm in Moorepark.


Ffs who's codding who?




I took the weekend off to take my crew to Bordeaux to enjoy a little show jumping. While I was away there were three sets of twins (alive) and a further 7 calves born. All alive and full of vitality.


Am I taking advantage of things or are we over-reacting?

kowtow

Milked out wrote:

The basic issue is yes grass is most practical feed for cows for majority of lactation but to make most of growth period it needs to be grazed early to get it back growing for the second round. Normal years in areas with dry ground lads could get out and cows could make some use of it early on but with recent weather conditions that is impossible for all but a few and the advice printed in the journal is severely lacking when it comes to alternatives given current conditions

What's the pragmatic solution to this?

Zero graze or too wet even if you were set up for it?

We could just about spread urea at the moment, but even the quad would be touch and go. Can't see cows going out till March so do we hold back on spreading (covers aren't too heavy and we're understocked anyway)

freedominacup

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Recent grass samples in Moore park grass @84 dmd and 20%P

Have you silage that good?
Cows only out for 3 hrs today and only picked at silage when they came in.

Not quite. 82dmd and 19% pr. 27%dm. If I could get 12kg dm into them it should be good for maintenance plus 14-15litres. Hard to get much beyond 10kg/dm on one forage though. Easy to hit 15-16kg with two.

Milked out

kowtow wrote: »

What's the pragmatic solution to this?

Zero graze or too wet even if you were set up for it?

We could just about spread urea at the moment, but even the quad would be touch and go. Can't see cows going out till March so do we hold back on spreading (covers aren't too heavy and we're understocked anyway)

With regard to spreading I reckon down here if you try it you might as well open the bag into the river with the saturation of the ground any shower would wash the most of it away. Once soil temps stay up and a few dry days come I'd go then if ground was trafficable.
Solution to poor conditions this time of year is to have a good diet when housed, or in your case if I'm not mistaken for the cheese to be made with no silage in the diet delay calving until they can go straight out most years on your farm. No zero grazers are out this weather I'd say and I'd invest in roadways and drainage before one of them unless the farm is fragmented. Like that here I could send em out a roadway into a new gap but once they step off it they would sink to their knees in wetter fields and badly poach the drier ones so it's a case of feed on inside

Mehaffey1

Dawggone wrote: »

Why are we damned into grazing grass that has little nutritional value for fresh calvers?
I'm grazing drys on what you would consider a substitute for good forage/concentrates. Freedom explains in his posts (optimistically I would add) the value of late winter grass.

Are we dumbing down our cows to suit the line that's pedalled from the acknowledged establishment?

Just saying like...

What do you count fresh calvers as? We have our 'colostrum' cows for four milkings after calving (once a day).

This past calving we really held back fresh calvers on pasture and fed silage due to a really sluggish start to spring growth. This was very easy to do after peak with only 30 cows or under and making two round bales of silage last 4 breaks in 48 hours. No noticeable or quantifiable drop in production and had a little bit lower occurrence of milk fever but I'd place that on better body condition pre calving.

Although in saying that we did view the paddock as a sacrifice paddock in hopes we would get it regrassed, hasn't happened though, paddocks performing a long way from average with plenty of thistles and nettes.

Mehaffey1

On a fun note, ran into our new worker's mother in town. She introduced me to her partner. First time I've ever been introduced as somebody's boss, makes you feel old lol.

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

What's the pragmatic solution to this?

Zero graze or too wet even if you were set up for it?

We could just about spread urea at the moment, but even the quad would be touch and go. Can't see cows going out till March so do we hold back on spreading (covers aren't too heavy and we're understocked anyway)

There'd still be an awful lot of water in zero grazed grass that'd limit intakes

Mehaffey1

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

There'd still be an awful lot of water in zero grazed grass that'd limit intakes

Did we ever get an answer as to what will damage damp grass more, either grazing by cows or mowing/lifting? If I remember right in theory mowing/lifting is worse?

darragh_haven

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Recent grass samples in Moore park grass @84 dmd and 20%P

Have you silage that good?
Cows only out for 3 hrs today and only picked at silage when they came in.

What do you think the dmd & %P is today? How do you think cows would perform a diet that is so variable. Cows need consistency. But I think cows are just being used as a way to get the winter cover removed (in poor conditions) more than a feed to produce milk.

mahoney_j

darragh_haven wrote: »

What do you think the dmd & %P is today? How do you think cows would perform a diet that is so variable. Cows need consistency. But I think cows are just being used as a way to get the winter cover removed (in poor conditions) more than a feed to produce milk.

Bang on ,I'd cows out from Wednesday to yesterday afternoon but in last night and I'd need a boat to get them out today .grass at moment has v little punch in it and fresh cows will melt if shoved too hard on if ,I'm reading elsewhere of guys on all grass and 3 kg low p meal ,recipe for disaster.the grass I was getting into them was of some benefit (health benefit,pressure of sheds ,and clearing ground for slurry but little else as ground conditions wet and dm low in grass .tegasc etc at moment need to cop on a bit with advice given out as too many take it as gospel especially new entrants which are most vulnerable .i write this as heavens just about to open again .worst start to a spring I can remember weather wise hope it picks up soon as it's going to have a big effect on grass in April if it continues

trixi2011

Grass definitaly has a part to play were land conditions allow being alot cheaper source of protien in the diet than meal. But as for having cows out fulltime on grass only and 3kg of meal i do think this will be detromental to the herd. Looking back at my diary for last year we tested grass at 24-30 % dm on the 4th of feb last year after some heavy frosts, this year grass ha
s tested at 12-14% dry matter. So i want to fed my feshly calved cow 7kg dm of grass this week to achieve this intake each cow will have to harvest 50kg fresh weight @ 14%dm in comparson to last year only needing 28kg.of grass at 25% dm. I dont want to tax my cows with an even bigger negitive energy balance than they already have. Will try to.get some grass into the cows during the day and hopfully when dm increases and weather settles reacess the situation and hit my target grazing areas by using less silage later in the month.

Mehaffey1

Putting a bit of pessimistic thought into the dairy situation here influenced by what's going on at home with family.

Pretty sure at the moment of calling an end to the NZ experience at the end of next season (May 2017). Maybe a big-headed way of looking at things but my dairy experience will always be valued here but my time at home will be gone forever with aging grandparents and stressed out family.

Anyone else been in the same boat?

Dawggone

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

What do you count fresh calvers as? .

Sorry about my poor terminology.
By fresh I mean from newly calved to cows in full production. 'Stale' would be past peak production to drying off.

Mehaffey1

Dawggone wrote: »

Sorry about my poor terminology.
By fresh I mean from newly calved to cows in full production. 'Stale' would be past peak production to drying off.

Always nice to learn, will have to mention to the boss that the cows are getting staler every fortnight at our rate of production!

Dawggone

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

Always nice to learn, will have to mention to the boss that the cows are getting staler every fortnight at our rate of production!

Lol.


Not much of a cowman, me.

Dawggone

Sent off a load of newly calved cows this morning by truck. Local transporter.


They arrived with one having a broken hind leg. The transporter will be insured for this I presume?

Edit. Haulier has insurance for the animals he transports.

Mehaffey1

Dawggone wrote: »

Lol.


Not much of a cowman, me.

Sure sure, ya must be more of a sheep farmer, trying to pull the wool over my eyes there

mf240

Glad of the few sheets of galvanise and the few timbers over the cubicles tonight.

frazzledhome

mf240 wrote: »

Glad of the few sheets of galvanise and the few timbers over the cubicles tonight.

I'm grand in by the stove

I'm glad I didn't blow 100k for a bit of rain in dry cows

mf240

We have a stove too.

frazzledhome

mf240 wrote: »

We have a stove too.

You're spoiling those cows altogether

mf240

frazzledhome wrote: »

You're spoiling those cows altogether

:D

Damo810

frazzledhome wrote: »

I'm grand in by the stove

I'm glad I didn't blow 100k for a bit of rain in dry cows

Have you many outdoor cubicles Frazz, as a percentage of total housing? In a year like this how much does it adding to the slurry spreading bill? How long would it take to cover the cost of a roof, genuine question..

Timmaay

Damo810 wrote: »

Have you many outdoor cubicles Frazz, as a percentage of total housing? In a year like this how much does it adding to the slurry spreading bill? How long would it take to cover the cost of a roof, genuine question..

On a similar topic, any idea how I would work out how much storage is required for an outdoor slatted tank, outdoor feed area, and then indoor cubicles. South East area, and I'd be aiming for 18 weeks storage.

frazzledhome

Damo810 wrote: »

Have you many outdoor cubicles Frazz, as a percentage of total housing? In a year like this how much does it adding to the slurry spreading bill? How long would it take to cover the cost of a roof, genuine question..

30% are Ocs. Water collected off say 250 cubicles and feed area inthis area for s normal winter would be 100k gallons. A good day with umbilical at say €1000!would spread that. So many years is the answer

oxjkqg

8 calved yesterday, 3 calved this morning, 1 more calved before lunch, flat ta the washers..!!:cool::P

Greengrass1

Stocked at 2.6 over all this yr here.
Made 1100 bakes last yr and we're sailing close to the wind now as regards silage.
Granted we have away 20 bales to a young lad who's starting out and we probably used up 110 bales by wintering culls and a few beef weanings and few we fattened.
Won't do any of that next yr.


Working out what we utilised on whole farm, it was little over 6t
We grew 13.7 on milk block and utilitisee 11.5t of it.

I'm hoping to push on again next yr and push milk block to little over 3 and still keep overall Sr around 2.6.
Depends on a few things but I still want to winter all this stock and make a decision then in spring weather we cull and do a bit if a clean up or drive on again.

I'd need to make at least 1000 (180t) bales at least for 120 day winter for everything which would be giving us good leway I reckon.

Will I make enough silage this yr? Option to buy maize is there as well as one neighbour who grows about 6 acres of grass for silage.

Plan was to cut 30ac in bales 1st wk of may for real good silage for milkers and then get the pit crew in to do a second cut end of July for dry cows.

But I'm not sure if that will yield enough silage for me. (I'd like to be self sufficient, as much as possible)


If I can get that extra 4t that's not being utilised off the farm ill have my 200t of silage.
Bit out farm I'd old grass. Granted we haven't used our full N allowance in a long time


Sorry for the long post

Damo810

frazzledhome wrote: »

30% are Ocs. Water collected off say 250 cubicles and feed area inthis area for s normal winter would be 100k gallons. A good day with umbilical at say €1000!would spread that. So many years is the answer

How much would the 100K gallons of slurry storage cost? Is it cheaper long term to put in the slurry storage over roofing if you were to expand numbers?

Was up in Moorepark today, some setup, the 9 o'clock start was welcome too