GAA Infastructure

GAA county boards take note

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/plans-unveiled-for-20m-redevelopment-of-dalymount-park-34426330.html

20 million all seater. Roof on all 4 sides. Sensible capacity. Museum. Warm Up areas. Meeting rooms.

iDave wrote: »

GAA county boards take note

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/plans-unveiled-for-20m-redevelopment-of-dalymount-park-34426330.html

20 million all seater. Roof on all 4 sides. Sensible capacity. Museum. Warm Up areas. Meeting rooms.

GAA grounds are much bigger than soccer grounds, so the price would be a lot higher for a similar GAA ground.

Also, a €20'000'000 redevelopment for a ground is beyond the reach of just about any county in Ireland. The only reason Casement's development is so high is because of huge funds from the NI executive, and the only reason Páirc Uí Chaoimh has a €60M+ price tag is to stroke the gigantic egos they seem to have down there. No other county would ever approach such a number.

Dalymount is a terrible example to use.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

well, they did the crime so they have to do the time.

If it looks like a GAA ground, and is ran like a GAA ground, and the deeds are held by the GAA, then it is a GAA ground, and EVERYONE knows that non GAA games are not to be played there.

If it is to be a community facility then the community council or other neutral holding body needs to be set up. If not, then its stupidity that someone collected money for it to be a soccer grounds and then gave the facility to the GAA.

If I collected a million euro for a church, and gave it to the muslims, I would not be surprised to find they had built a mosque and not be able to use the facility as a church!

I agree 1000%

If the club had requested permission from Croke Park to use the grounds for the summer camp it probably would of been granted as it is granted for loads of other non gaa summer camps through the country,The club went on a solo run and got rightly fined

salmocab wrote: »

Just on the stadium size obviously it seems a bigger stadium needs to cost more but in actual fact in PUC it would make sense to build 2 proper stands with much cheaper to build terraces wrapping around each end so the stands don't have to be the length of the pitch. For arguments sake the stands could take 10,000 each with the terraces taking similar amounts. That way 20,000 could sit and watch almost every game played there but it could take 40 to 45 thousand if needs be for the one or two games a year that need more capacity. Pulling figures out of my hole here but Im sure everyone can see the point that it doesn't necessarily need to be a massive all seater soccer style stadium on a larger scale. Im sure this could be done for reasonable money.

That should of been the plan all along,2 large stands with hospitality and all that jazz with about 15k capacity in each & two terraces holding the guts of 8/9k each (With possible temporary seating for concerts etc..)

With funding coming from Croke Park for this and for Casement i think it would be a fantastic idea to "give" both these grounds an All Ireland QF each year

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Funding comes from the community through fundraising and the tax payer through grants.

People in communities also play soccer and rugby and probably bought tickets to pay for these facilities. That is the way the world works.

Yeah im fairly outraged that i was refused permission to hold our annual youth club disco in the local courthouse which is maintained through tax payer money.

I also don't like the fact that i bought a raffle ticket for the local golf club and now they wont let the kids play rugby games there.

It's bloody outrageous Joe

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The GAA club in question hired out their Astro Turf pitch.
Communities have to get on with living and working together, not creating divisions and bigotry

The soccer club that were running the camp to raise money could of used their own pitch in which they have 2,There is also a community all weather soccer pitch in which they have access to,The GAA club had superior facilities and they came knocking for them.

It has absolutely nothing to do with bigotry,The rules are there to protect local GAA clubs that come under pressure to share facilities with other sports who can't get off their arses and get their own.

Dromard could of applied for permission to host the event but they never bothered.

Until a rule is passed at congress the GAA HQ are obliged by its members (me & you) to enforce the rules.

Hibbeler wrote: »

Just on the point made above that soccer/rugby pitches tend to be smaller than GAA pitches, this absolutely does not mean that Dalymount park or Thomond park etc. is not a valid comparison to make. I would point out that the size of the rectangle in the middle isn't really a valid reason to discount them as comparisons.

It is a fact that say the Aviva Stadium/Thomond/Dalymount/etc have fundamentally the same function as Croke Park et al. and that is to house spectators while enjoying a game of some kind on a rectangle of grass in front of them. Plus all of the associated corporate, media etc functions that go with such events.

When it comes to the costs of building any building a number of considerations come into play. Everything from the size and function of the building to the cost of labour and materials amongst others.

Assuming that in a comparison between GAA and soccer stadia in Ireland we can say that the function and costs of labour and materials will be roughly comparable so the biggest variable is the size of the pitch. Therefore it is clear that comparisons between stadia of various codes is a very valid one to make.

I believe that the original point iDave wass trying to make bringing up the proposed Dalymount redevelopment is that on the face of it the FAI and Bohemians arguably appear to be getting more bang for their buck than any of the GAA county boards so far have been able to achieve. So if you went about building a GAA ground with a 20 million budget we should expect to see maybe two good standard covered stands for that price perhaps. Why is it that the Pairc ui Caomh development in Cork with a much higher budget appears to be total tosh in comparison?

Fair points, although I think its Dublin City Council thats paying, neither Bohs or FAI could afford that.

iDave wrote: »

GAA county boards take note

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/plans-unveiled-for-20m-redevelopment-of-dalymount-park-34426330.html

20 million all seater. Roof on all 4 sides. Sensible capacity. Museum. Warm Up areas. Meeting rooms.

20 million for 10k seems expensive

salmocab wrote: »

The site is so tight it would drive up building costs

Sell it and build on a green field site. Waste of money when you'd get 20 million or more for the site alone

nice_guy80 wrote: »

No ground outside Croke Park or PUC will spend near that amount.
It's not really a valid comparison

I don't see how it wouldn't be a valid comparison based upon the budget being potentially larger alone. When you're comparing two buildings it is that they serve the same function that is important. For example you wouldn't generally compare an office building with an apartment block. But likewise you wouldn't compare Wembley Stadium to the London GAA grounds, the difference in scale means that the function is different.

The budget and location and spec (how well finished the building aims to be) are variables which you take into consideration. All these things are factors that effect the overall costs

If you're saying that it is unlikely that the GAA would ever have the budget to redevelop an entire stadium then that's a fair point. But certainly it would be fair to compare a new stand in say Tullamore to the offering provided in a new Dalymount. You could compare the offerings provided for spectators, media facilities etc and still factor in that it's cheaper to build in Tullamore than Finglas and that the overall project was for a single stand + terracing rather than a whole stadium

In short the location and scale are certainly factors to consider when analysing value for money but do not in and of themselves preclude comparison

LeinsterDub wrote: »

20 million for 10k seems expensive

To be honest, it sounds about right when you look into it. Taking for example a number of similarly sized soccer stadiums built in the UK in recent years and presuming that the FAI/Dublin City Council will aim for a similar standard of finish we can see this. This is about 2000euro per seat shall we say.

For example Chesterfield's Proact Stadium. 10k capacity built in 2009 for £13million GBP or about 16million euro. Take into account 7 years worth of inflation, the exchange rate with sterling and the fact that it's Chesterfield not Phibbsboro then 20million euro in Dublin sounds about right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proact_Stadium



Now if we bring this all back to the GAA grounds, even if we're only looking at it one stand at a time, we should be aiming to achieve the best value for whatever money is available. Looking at Cork in particular with a nominal budget of 60million, with 2k per seat as a rough guesstimate, you're looking at a capacity of about 30k and hopefully all the modern spectator, corporate and media facilities built in to state of the art.

Ultimately though it is the spec level of GAA grounds that needs improving across the board and not capacity. That is what has largely been missing from redevelopments in recent years

progress at Pairc Ui Chaoimh