Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

mewe · 31-01-2016 10:46AM

The Black Oil wrote: »

Buting came off as paranoid, imo. When he said he didn't trust the FBI, and I'm not saying it hasn't had issues, I honestly thought 'is this guy for real?' Whatever ones thinks of local law enforcement in this instance, calling the integrity of the Bureau into question is an extraordinarily serious thing to do.

I would wager he has more knowledge and experience in dealing with the FBI than you and is in a better position to judge.

m1ck007 · 31-01-2016 10:52AM

The Black Oil wrote: »

Buting came off as paranoid, imo. When he said he didn't trust the FBI, and I'm not saying it hasn't had issues, I honestly thought 'is this guy for real?' Whatever ones thinks of local law enforcement in this instance, calling the integrity of the Bureau into question is an extraordinarily serious thing to do.

Personally i wouldnt trust the fbi either. I dont even trust the police where i live.

31-01-2016 10:56AM

I can't believe the whole country is so quick to believe everything they are told.
It's a TV programme made with certain bias.

Did he do it or not? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm not going to just blindly accept what the makers of a show want me to believe.

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 02:22PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I can't believe the whole country is so quick to believe everything they are told.
It's a TV programme made with certain bias.

Did he do it or not? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm not going to just blindly accept what the makers of a show want me to believe.

But his defense lawyers say the key, blood and bullet was planted, the bones were moved to Avery's burn pit and his DNA contaminated onto the Elizabeth's hood latch, hid his no when calling Elizabeth for no reason,bullet fired from same rifle Avery kept above his bed just a coincidence, its all a conspiracy against him.

That's believable right?

runswithascript · 31-01-2016 02:22PM

There was a programme on this yesterday, supposedly releasing new evidence, on Discovery Investigation. The name of the programme is 'Steven Avery: Innocent or Guilty'. I have checked my usual sources for content but there is no sign of it.

Does anyone know where this can be downloaded or streamed from?

retro:electro · 31-01-2016 02:28PM

Anyone who thinks he is guilty I would love to hear how they think her spare key which she had never even laid a finger on, ended up on Steven's bedroom floor mid search.

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 02:40PM

anna080 wrote: »

Anyone who thinks he is guilty I would love to hear how they think her spare key which she had never even laid a finger on, ended up on Steven's bedroom floor mid search.

Avery been very dumb left it there, he also left her vehicle parked on his property.

I would love someone who thinks he is innocent to explain how his blood got in her car, how a bullet with her DNA was found in his garage fired from a same make gun he had hanging above his bed, how his DNA was found on her hood latch, why her bones were found in his burn pit, why he hid his no only when calling Elizabeth, why he lied about having a bonfire the night she disappeared, why he and Brendan were bleaching the garage the night she disappeared.

I'm thinking Elizabeth's brother had something to do with it the documentary made him look very suspicious.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 31-01-2016 02:42PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

But his defense lawyers say the key, blood and bullet was planted, the bones were moved to Avery's burn pit and his DNA contaminated onto the Elizabeth's hood latch, hid his no when calling Elizabeth for no reason,bullet fired from same rifle Avery kept above his bed just a coincidence, its all a conspiracy against him.

That's believable right?

Whos Elizabeth?

retro:electro · 31-01-2016 02:43PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Avery been very dumb left it there, he also left her vehicle parked on his property.

I would love someone who thinks he is innocent to explain how his blood got in her car, how a bullet with her DNA was found in his garage fired from a same make gun he had hanging above his bed, how his DNA was found on her hood latch, why her bones were found in his burn pit, why he hid his no only when calling Elizabeth, why he lied about having a bonfire the night she disappeared, why he and Brendan were bleaching the garage the night she disappeared.

I'm thinking Elizabeth's brother had something to do with it the documentary made him look very suspicious.

But it was the spare key, which she had never touched before. Her DNA wasn't on it, only Avery's. Her actual keys were a bunch of keys including her house key, they were never found. Someone took this spare key from her home and planted it at Avery's.

MadDog76 · 31-01-2016 02:44PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

But his defense lawyers say the key, blood and bullet was planted, the bones were moved to Avery's burn pit and his DNA contaminated onto the Elizabeth's hood latch, hid his no when calling Elizabeth for no reason,bullet fired from same rifle Avery kept above his bed just a coincidence, its all a conspiracy against him.

That's believable right?

Yeah, imagine that ......... the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department fabricating evidence to incriminate Steven Avery and refusing to investigate evidence which might prove Steven Avery's innocence ......... all to frame him and put him away for the rest of his life for a horrendous crime he did not commit??? Ridiculous!!!

Oh wait .......... that's exactly what they did do to Mr. Avery in 1985 and it took 18 years behind bars before he was exonerated.

MadDog76 · 31-01-2016 02:45PM

dusf wrote: »

There was a programme on this yesterday, supposedly releasing new evidence, on Discovery Investigation. The name of the programme is 'Steven Avery: Innocent or Guilty'. I have checked my usual sources for content but there is no sign of it.

Does anyone know where this can be downloaded or streamed from?

It's repeated 22 times in the coming week on ID.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 31-01-2016 02:47PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

It's repeated 22 times in the coming week on ID.

Some people can't record their tv source

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 02:48PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

Yeah, imagine that ......... the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department fabricating evidence to incriminate Steven Avery and refusing to investigate evidence which might prove Steven Avery's innocence ......... all to frame him and put him away for the rest of his life for a horrendous crime he did not commit??? Ridiculous!!!

Oh wait .......... that's exactly what they did do to Mr. Avery in 1985 and it took 18 years behind bars before he was exonerated.

Brilliant explain the whole conspiracy and what you think it happened.

I think it was Lenk who stole the blood and DNA and moved the bones and planted the bullet, Kratz probably in on it too I'd say.

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 02:50PM

MrMac84 wrote: »

Whos Elizabeth?

Sorry Teresa

MadDog76 · 31-01-2016 03:17PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

I've been thinking about this case since finishing watching the documentary.

There's a few things that bother me about the whole thing .........

Teresa Halbach's Jeep ........... I think Deputy Colburn found her Jeep two days before it was officially "found" and called it in to the dispatcher for confirmation ......... he probably came across the abandoned vehicle (with the key still inside) close enough to the Avery property to convince him that Steven Avery is responsible for Teresa's murder but not close enough to be damning evidence against Avery ......... so he moved it onto the Avery property, planted the key in Avery's bedroom when the opportunity (that he'd been waiting for) arose and also removed Avery's blood from the evidence room to plant in the Jeep.
I doubt he did any of this alone, he was almost certainly aided by Lieutenant James Lenk and others in the Department.
Why? Because, in their minds, Avery is guilty and they'll be damned if he gets away with it.

The bones .......... they were moved. The body would have taken anywhere between 12-16 hours to be broken down to the state it was found in ........... this would have to have been done elsewhere then moved, probably in the burn barrel, onto the Avery property.
Who burned her? The killer obviously ........ but who moved the bones onto the Avery property and why? I believe, like the Jeep, that the burn barrel, with the bones inside, were found by Law Enforcement (Colburn? Lenk?) close to the Avery property and/or Jeep but just not close enough so once again the "evidence" was given a helping hand.

The bullet in the garage ......... there are/were lots of bullets, shells, casing's etc. in and around the Avery property. They liked guns and they liked shooting so it's quite easy to pick up a bullet(s) from the property and plant it, with added DNA, in the garage.
This bullet somehow passed completely through Teresa's body to land on the garage floor with her (and only her) DNA on it without leaving any blood, tissue, DNA etc. on the surrounding floor/walls ........ and it remained on the floor of the garage for six months during multiple searches before being found? Doesn't make logical sense because that didn't happen ......... it was planted to help convict this "guilty" man.

Brendan Dassey's "confession" ........... I think most people can dismiss this "confession" without needing any detailed explanation.

When did Teresa actually die? The Prosecution say October 31st because that's the day she was on the Avery property .......... yet nobody reported her missing until November 3rd ......... not her room-mate, not her friends, not her ex-boyfriend, not her family/brother ......... nobody.
Somebody was accessing, and deleting, her voice-mails right up to the morning of November 2nd ......... who and why?? Was it Teresa herself meaning that she was still alive hence why she wasn't reported missing ......... or was it her killer who would have had to be somebody close enough to her to know her password.

How did Teresa die? The Prosecution believe that Brendan cut her throat in Steven Avery's bedroom ........... no knife or blood have ever been found in Steven's trailer so that's not possible.
The Prosecution also believe (because Teresa must have been murdered twice by two separate people in two separate locations?) that Teresa was shot by Steven Avery in his garage ......... no evidence (apart from the magic bullet) of this ........ the murder took place in an unknown location.

If I had been a Juror during this trial I'd have been waiting for the Prosecution to tell me exactly how, when, where and why Teresa was murdered and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
I'd have wanted them to prove to me that the accused committed the murder.
They failed to do any of this so I would have acquitted Mr. Avery.

enfant terrible wrote: »

Brilliant explain the whole conspiracy and what you think it happened.

I think it was Lenk who stole the blood and DNA and moved the bones and planted the bullet, Kratz probably in on it too I'd say.

I've already posted my theory ........

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 03:22PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

I've already posted my theory ........

That's an amazing story, any evidence?

Ascendant · 31-01-2016 03:26PM

Good viewing, though grim.

Seems like all the good stuff is on TV these days, when before movies were the ones to watch. I guess we cab thank HBO for showing the way.

MadDog76 · 31-01-2016 03:30PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

That's an amazing story, any evidence?

That's the key to this whole case .......... the evidence.

The evidence has been moved, fabricated, contaminated, exaggerated and tampered with to the point that it's no longer reliable ......... the onus was on the Investigators and Prosecutors to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach ........ they did not do that.

If you've an interest in this case, and have studied it in any way, then answer me this question ........... who killed Teresa and why?

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 03:36PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

That's the key to this whole case .......... the evidence.

The evidence has been moved, fabricated, contaminated, exaggerated and tampered with to the point that it's no longer reliable ......... the onus was on the Investigators and Prosecutors to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach ........ they did not do that.

If you've an interest in this case, and have studied it in any way, then answer me this question ........... who killed Teresa and why?

Steven Avery for his sexual gratification.

Provide me evidence for your conspiracy above.

8-10 · 31-01-2016 03:43PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

But his defense lawyers say the key, blood and bullet was planted, the bones were moved to Avery's burn pit and his DNA contaminated onto the Elizabeth's hood latch, hid his no when calling Elizabeth for no reason,bullet fired from same rifle Avery kept above his bed just a coincidence, its all a conspiracy against him.

That's believable right?

enfant terrible wrote: »

Avery been very dumb left it there, he also left her vehicle parked on his property.

I would love someone who thinks he is innocent to explain how his blood got in her car, how a bullet with her DNA was found in his garage fired from a same make gun he had hanging above his bed, how his DNA was found on her hood latch, why her bones were found in his burn pit, why he hid his no only when calling Elizabeth, why he lied about having a bonfire the night she disappeared, why he and Brendan were bleaching the garage the night she disappeared.

I'm thinking Elizabeth's brother had something to do with it the documentary made him look very suspicious.

Elizabeth? Have you even watched the show?

I don't think he's innocent, but I think he's not guilty based on the court case

MadDog76 · 31-01-2016 03:44PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Steven Avery for his sexual gratification.

Provide me evidence for your conspiracy above.

Steven Avery ......... alone? Why do you think that??

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 03:45PM

8-10 wrote: »

Elizabeth? Have you even watched the show?

I don't think he's innocent, but I think he's not guilty based on the court case

Yes sorry I got her first name wrong.

Great contribution by you by the way.

8-10 · 31-01-2016 03:46PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Yes sorry I got her first name wrong

It's ok sure it was barely mentioned

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 03:48PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

Steven Avery ......... alone? Why do you think that??

Steven and Brendan, Brendan admits he was in the garage bleaching it the night Teresa disappeared, came home with bleached jeans, was depressed after the murder and confessed to his cousin.

And all the physical evidence points to Steven.

Why do you think there was a conspiracy when there is no evidence for one?

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 03:49PM

8-10 wrote: »

It's ok sure it was barely mentioned

True it was mainly a Steven is an innocent man who wouldn't hurt a fly circle jerk.

Teresa barely got a mention.

8-10 · 31-01-2016 03:52PM

Based on the evidence presented to the court, I think it's entirely reasonable to have doubts that he did it. Prosecution got maybe 95% there. If they put Brendan on the stand and he was convincing, then that would have done it I'd say. If I'd been a juror though....I just can't say it was him 100%

MadDog76 · 31-01-2016 03:53PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Steven and Brendan, Brendan admits he was in the garage bleaching it the night Teresa disappeared, came home with bleached jeans, was depressed after the murder and confessed to his cousin.

And all the physical evidence points to Steven.

Why do you think there was a conspiracy when there is no evidence for one?

But wait .......... Ken Kratz, a man of integrity who would never lie in Court during a Murder Trial, said in Court during Steven's Murder Trial that "one man, and one man alone, murdered Teresa Halbach ........ that man is Steven Avery" .......... why do you think Brendan Dassey murdered her too??

enfant terrible · 31-01-2016 04:04PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

But wait .......... Ken Kratz, a man of integrity who would never lie in Court during a Murder Trial, said in Court during Steven's Murder Trial that "one man, and one man alone, murdered Teresa Halbach ........ that man is Steven Avery" .......... why do you think Brendan Dassey murdered her too??

Because he admitted it and all the evidence points there.

What evidence points to this incredible conspiracy you believe in?

Potential Underachiever · 31-01-2016 04:15PM

Maddog = Jerry Buting

Enfant terrible = Ken Kratz

Seriously though, no need to de-rail the thread, can't you post your opinions and leave it at that!?!

Potential Underachiever · 31-01-2016 04:15PM

Maddog = Jerry Buting

Enfant terrible = Ken Kratz

Seriously though, no need to de-rail the thread, can't you post your opinions and leave it at that!?!

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

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