Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

enfant terrible · 24-01-2016 06:17AM

willowthewisp · 25-01-2016 01:14PM

Absolutely fascinating documentary. Still looking online and reading through the substantial amount of pro prosecution and as much pro avery "evidence" left out of the series.
To be honest at times I think 100% guilty and at others 100% innocent.
At minimum though I believe he is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
As for Brendan, what a tragedy.

Bacchus · 26-01-2016 01:35PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Rebutting a Murderer: Episode 1-10

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-1-14260554/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-2-14260621/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-3-14264099/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-4-14264657/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-5-14267902/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-6-14269121/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-7-14273518/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-8-14277487/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-9-14278246/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-10-14279934/

This was quite interesting reading up to part 3 when it does exactly what it accused Making a Murderer of doing in the first 2 parts - it glosses over a critical point.

That point being, where is all the blood and DNA evidence of Teresa in the bedroom or anywhere in Avery's home? This rebuttal tries to brush it off as

How much blood should be there? Is there a set amount that would have been impossible to clean up given enough time?

What if Halbach was stabbed but, because it was not a fatal wound, she didn’t bleed all that much at all?

Nope, sorry the whole rebuttal lost credibility once I read that.

That said, in the first two parts it do a very good job of highlighting that Avery is a nasty piece of work and as a potentially dangerous person. That doesn't mean he committed this crime though and as soon as they get into the evidence in part 3, the rebuttal trips up almost immediately.

EDIT: Mind you the only source of the story about what happened in the trailer was from Brendan... so if you discount that outright, the other bits in the rebuttal do still fit (regarding the timelines, the bullet fired from Avery's rifle with Teresa's blood on it & the firepit). Really, the interrogation of Brendan completely obliterated any hope of getting to the truth as his comments can be twisted and turned any way you want.

theflipdave · 27-01-2016 03:44PM

Yeah, complete an utter

retro:electro · 28-01-2016 12:19AM

http://youtu.be/BU94s8b7EZY

An interesting stance.

marklazarcovic · 28-01-2016 11:26AM

anna080 wrote:

An interesting stance.

Wow that guy is cold, not saying he had anything to do with the halbach murder.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 28-01-2016 01:50PM

Why is he been linked too the murder?

Trigger · 28-01-2016 02:34PM

MrMac84 wrote: »

Why is he been linked too the murder?

He had links to another double murder that happened close enough to it and an ex detective is convinced that he seen him in the backround in the documentary attending the court case.

That's supposed to be him in the backround

marklazarcovic · 28-01-2016 03:10PM

I think the manner in which he killed was the other reason,same m.O, I think he would have came out and said he did it at this stage as he was desperate to b executed

MadDog76 · 28-01-2016 05:03PM

MrMac84 wrote: »

Why is he been linked too the murder?

He also has a history of trying to frame individuals for crimes/murders he himself has committed ........ it would make a great movie if it turned out to be true!!

Unearthly · 28-01-2016 08:06PM

Watched it and enjoyed it a lot.

I agree with people that it was edited heavily in his favour and combined with people's love for a who done it (you can see it in this thread alone that individuals who have got timelines wrong are being branded as murderers)

I reckon it could be a case that he did do it, and the police possibly planted evidence as well

Flint Fredstone · 28-01-2016 08:35PM

Brendan's cousin.

https://twitter.com/averydassey/status/692190610963456000

trashcan · 28-01-2016 09:15PM

Unearthly wrote: »

Watched it and enjoyed it a lot.

I agree with people that it was edited heavily in his favour and combined with people's love for a who done it (you can see it in this thread alone that individuals who have got timelines wrong are being branded as murderers)

I reckon it could be a case that he did do it, and the police possibly planted evidence as well

That's perfectly possibly of course.

retro:electro · 28-01-2016 09:40PM

I'm delighted to hear Steven has such a component attorney but I took a look at her Twitter page and I think she needs to take it easy. The case has been picked apart by so many people since MAM, everyone wants their say. It's time some dignity was brought back to it now and she needs to keep her cards close to her chest. Whatever she has she needs to keep it for the court room; publically flinging mud and throwing stones isn't going to help anyone.

Tilly · 28-01-2016 11:37PM

Saw the jinx mentioned a few times in this thread. It's now on sky boxsets. I'm all over this

retro:electro · 28-01-2016 11:51PM

Tilly wrote: »

Saw the jinx mentioned a few times in this thread. It's now on sky boxsets. I'm all over this

The jinx is incredible. I found his story to be highly engrossing.

stesaurus · 29-01-2016 01:57PM

Just saw this advertised on Sky for the ID channel this Saturday. Might help with those suffering withdrawal symptoms

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/making-murderer-see-trailer-new-7263476

A new documentary will air this week which attempts to shed further light on the details behind hit Netflix show Making a Murderer.

"Steven Avery: Innocent or Guilty?" will air on the Discovery Network's ID channel on Saturday January 30th at 10pm, and will show new details about the extraordinary Theresa Halbach murder trial.

Much of the focus (and fan anger) has been on prosecutor Ken Kratz , and he will feature in the programme, along with Jerry Buting, one half of Steven Avery's defence team.

NyOmnishambles · 29-01-2016 02:01PM

Tilly wrote: »

Saw the jinx mentioned a few times in this thread. It's now on sky boxsets. I'm all over this

The Jinx is brilliant, well worth a watch, it helps that he is a fascinating character

Also based on people mentioned it here I watched Staircase this week, also intriguing and infuriating and also worth watching some follow ups that were made by the BBC

Ageyev · 29-01-2016 05:28PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Just saw this advertised on Sky for the ID channel this Saturday. Might help with those suffering withdrawal symptoms

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/making-murderer-see-trailer-new-7263476

I can't see that offering much information that hasn't already been made public since MaM debuted in December. Likely a cash-in piece based on Reddit threads.

Strang, Buting and Kratz have been giving media interviews every few weeks anyway and by it seems that Avery's family (or mother at least) is exhausted -
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/us/making-a-murderer-town-netflix-steven-avery.html?_r=0

Arghus · 30-01-2016 01:20AM

http://podbay.fm/show/541481026/e/1453745917?autostart=1

Latest episode of the Generation Why podcast. A two hour and fairly thorough examination of the Avery Case.

Wondering if people have been wrongly convicted is these guy's bag.

And They think Avery is guilty as sin.

I watched the show before I listen to the Pod: I agreee with a lot of what they have to say.

There are too many coincidences and implausibilities in Avery's story for me to believe a conspiracy theory that gets more and more outlandish as it develops. The show does a convincing job of getting the audience to see certain facts about the case in particular way, but it never presents a coherent counter argument; other than it was a set-up. If you want to do that then show me what you think really happened: don't just imply, while at the same time leaving 90 per-cent of what was presented in the trial out of the argument.

Making a Murderer is definitely an engrossing and well put together documentary, but it's also a missed opportunity: Instead of focusing on systematic failures of the US justice system - which seem to be a legitimate cause for concern, everything is focused, with an extremely narrow and biased eye, on the fairly dubious claims of innocence of a man with, at best, an extremely sketchy past: and that's after acknowledging he was completely innocent of the crime he spent nearly two decades in prison for.

gizmo555 · 30-01-2016 12:02PM

Arghus wrote: »

Making a Murderer is definitely an engrossing and well put together documentary, but it's also a missed opportunity: Instead of focusing on systematic failures of the US justice system - which seem to be a legitimate cause for concern, everything is focused, with an extremely narrow and biased eye, on the fairly dubious claims of innocence of a man with, at best, an extremely sketchy past: and that's after acknowledging he was completely innocent of the crime he spent nearly two decades in prison for.

First of all, the series concerns two men, Avery and his nephew Dassey - and one woman, whose real murderer may still be at large as a result of police misconduct.

Secondly, the question is not whether Avery is innocent - even his lawyer Dean Strang acknowledges he could be guilty and in some ways hopes he is, because the idea of a man spending so long in prison for things he didn't do would be unbearable.

The questions are, was there substantial police, prosecutorial - and in the case of Dassey, defence - misconduct and did the state prove Avery and Dassey guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt?

MadDog76 · 30-01-2016 12:38PM

Arghus wrote: »

http://podbay.fm/show/541481026/e/1453745917?autostart=1

Latest episode of the Generation Why podcast. A two hour and fairly thorough examination of the Avery Case.

As opposed to the ten hour, less thorough, examination of the Avery case in Making Of A Murderer?

Arghus wrote: »

Wondering if people have been wrongly convicted is these guy's bag.

And They think Avery is guilty as sin.

I watched the show before I listen to the Pod: I agreee with a lot of what they have to say.

These guys think he's guilty ......... case closed so! :rolleyes:

Arghus wrote: »

There are too many coincidences and implausibilities in Avery's story for me to believe a conspiracy theory that gets more and more outlandish as it develops. The show does a convincing job of getting the audience to see certain facts about the case in particular way, but it never presents a coherent counter argument; other than it was a set-up. If you want to do that then show me what you think really happened: don't just imply, while at the same time leaving 90 per-cent of what was presented in the trial out of the argument.

It was the responsibility of the Detectives to investigate this case thoroughly with a view to finding Teresa's killer(s) .......... but they opted instead to find a suspect and make the evidence fit .......... hence the making of the documentary.

If what we saw in the 10 hour documentary is only 10% of the argument then what is the 90% of the argument that this 2 hour podcast was able to cover so thoroughly?

Arghus wrote: »

Making a Murderer is definitely an engrossing and well put together documentary, but it's also a missed opportunity: Instead of focusing on systematic failures of the US justice system - which seem to be a legitimate cause for concern, everything is focused, with an extremely narrow and biased eye, on the fairly dubious claims of innocence of a man with, at best, an extremely sketchy past: and that's after acknowledging he was completely innocent of the crime he spent nearly two decades in prison for.

The documentary is about the investigation (or lack thereof) of Teresa Halbach's murder and the trials (blatantly unfair trials) of Steven Avery & Brendan Dassey ......... the reason that this documentary got made and has attracted so much attention is because there are huge issues and irregularities with how this case was investigated and prosecuted ......... fact.

Arghus · 30-01-2016 05:48PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

As opposed to the ten hour, less thorough, examination of the Avery case in Making Of A Murderer?

I'm not comparing levels of thoroughness: Just saying that this discussion is a good one. I'm not making a case for compare and contrast

These guys think he's guilty ......... case closed so! :rolleyes:

Before you're done rolling your eyes you could give the show a listen, before you bash it You can pass judgement then from a position of credibility. They don't claim to have to wrapped the case up- just waded into the murkier waters that the doc, argubly, glides over

It was the responsibility of the Detectives to investigate this case thoroughly with a view to finding Teresa's killer(s) .......... but they opted instead to find a suspect and make the evidence fit .......... hence the making of the documentary.

If what we saw in the 10 hour documentary is only 10% of the argument then what is the 90% of the argument that this 2 hour podcast was able to cover so thoroughly?

I don't think that either the podcast or the documentary cover everything - they couldn't! But the filmakers shot over 700 hours of footage over a number of years. So what we see is 1.4% of their work. How much of the trial didn't we see then? What annoys me the most about people who are convinced of Stephen Averys innocence isn't that they think he's innocent - The documentary is so persausive that it's hard not to feel that way, it really is. No, what's really aggrevating is that people seem to be convinced that they're in full posession of the facts - You aren't!!! None of us are! Whether you feel he's gulity or innocent, you haven't absorbed everything about a long and complex murder trial. And to speak from a position of infallibility about it one way or the other, after watching a 10 hour emotionally manipulative and heavily biased documentary account, is presumptuous in the extreme.I think it's probable that he's gulity, but I'm not totally 100% convinced

The documentary is about the investigation (or lack thereof) of Teresa Halbach's murder and the trials (blatantly unfair trials) of Steven Avery & Brendan Dassey ......... the reason that this documentary got made and has attracted so much attention is because there are huge issues and irregularities with how this case was investigated and prosecuted ......... fact.

No doubt there were issues and irregularties. I think the documentary could have explored how endemic these are in US law enforcement. But that's just me: most people seem content with it being primarily a true-crime tale. Fair enough.

Arghus · 30-01-2016 06:18PM

gizmo555 wrote: »

...
The questions are, was there substantial police, prosecutorial - and in the case of Dassey, defence - misconduct and did the state prove Avery and Dassey guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt?

Yes those are important questions, no doubt about it.

But there is another set of questions that go hand in hand with the first: How reliable is the source that's making us ask these questions in the first place? Is it objective? Does it have an agenda? Does it show you everything that has relevance - Why are the criminal records of Avery's bothers, of violence against women never brought up, for instance? Is it a cold sober and factual account of facts? Is there any narrative that it tries to construct? Does it have grounds to construct that narrative?

Arghus · 30-01-2016 06:46PM

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2016/01/making_a_murderer_is_so_emotionally_manipulative_it_left_me_angry.html

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/dead-certainty

Two thought provoking articles about the show.

If they don't leave you with a few questions about it; then I don't know what more to say.

Patty O Furniture · 30-01-2016 10:43PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Just saw this advertised on Sky for the ID channel this Saturday. Might help with those suffering withdrawal symptoms

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/making-murderer-see-trailer-new-7263476

Saw it in the tv listings earlier today,

http://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/steven-avery-innocent-or-guilty/

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderers-steven-avery-will-be-subject-of-investigation-discovery-special/

The network will partner with NBC News to dissect evidence in Avery’s case, in which he and his nephew, Brendan Dassey, were convicted of murdering Teresa Halbach in 2005.
“We feel compelled to address what we believe are some critical details missing from the case as presented in Netflix’s current documentary series ‘Making a Murderer,'”

Have to say i haven't it yet, but with Dean Strang on Ray Darcy last week, was looking forward to see what it was all about, although some may have been put off with his 'interview' :mad:

The Black Oil · 30-01-2016 11:23PM

Finished it earlier this evening, spent the last while going over the thread.

It's a good documentary, however I was mostly bothered by its tone. There's a really strong breathless chant of "he's innocent" throughout. I'm not saying there weren't issues with how the Halbach case was investigated and brought to trial, but things like Buting saying he didn't trust the FBI, the media appearances of Mike Halbach, and the excused juror bloke, all felt too placed in front of us in a particular way. Brendan's situation is terrible, of course and I also felt for Steven's parents. I'd have liked to hear wider questions asked about how the US justice system deals with crimes of this seriousness.

Sunflower 27 · 30-01-2016 11:48PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

Finished it earlier this evening, spent the last while going over the thread.

It's a good documentary, however I was mostly bothered by its tone. There's a really strong breathless chant of "he's innocent" throughout. I'm not saying there weren't issues with how the Halbach case was investigated and brought to trial, but things like Buting saying he didn't trust the FBI, the media appearances of Mike Halbach, and the excused juror bloke, all felt too placed in front of us in a particular way. Brendan's situation is terrible, of course and I also felt for Steven's parents. I'd have liked to hear wider questions asked about how the US justice system deals with crimes of this seriousness.

Huh?

If he didn't trust the FBI, why should he pretend he did? How else can you present it? That is what he felt.

The prosecutors did not want to be in the documentary. They were aware it was being made and were asked numerous times. Should the documentary not have been made because they refused to be involved?

As for Mike Halbach.... actually, no, I won't start on him. He isn't worth it.

Ageyev · 31-01-2016 02:59AM

https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/693203900309045248

The Black Oil · 31-01-2016 10:01AM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Huh?

If he didn't trust the FBI, why should he pretend he did? How else can you present it? That is what he felt.

Buting came off as paranoid, imo. When he said he didn't trust the FBI, and I'm not saying it hasn't had issues, I honestly thought 'is this guy for real?' Whatever ones thinks of local law enforcement in this instance, calling the integrity of the Bureau into question is an extraordinarily serious thing to do.

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

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