Sooooo...turns out my new roommate is a flat earther.

27-01-2016 01:47PM

seamus wrote: »

Well yes, it's all quackery. It's all down to the placebo effect, which is barely more effective then doing nothing.

A lot of it is placebo sure. And I would not overly equate placebo with "nothing" given the power placebo has been known to have. If we could truly understand placebo and tap into that capability without woo or quackery - it would be a major advancement in medicine.

But there are other things at play other than placebo. "Return to the mean" is one example which is that peoples conditions tend not to be linear but cyclical. And the time they generally feel desperate enough to try some quackery or other is at the peaks in those cycles when their suffering is at the worst.

That is to say - at the point in their condition when their conditions were about to improve _anyway_. So the timing of this leads people to be convinced that whatever quackery the employed genuinely did help. Rubbing Vicks on your feet appears to be one of these. People think it is ridiculous so of course they only try it when they are the peak of their suffering with flu or the common cold. So of course it appears to work. Then when they get bad again they remember it worked before - apply the vicks to their feet again - and of course recover again. So it ramifies in their mind the efficacy of the treatment and they spread the meme to others.

And a lot of practitioners of quackery know this and they know the GENERAL cyclical timings of many conditions. So they know _just_ when to ask you to come back for further "treatment" so as to have the best chance of coinciding with the cycle and keep the "mark" convinced the treatment is working every time.

And since they do not subject themselves to meta analysis or study - they need little more than a handful of testimonials to keep business alive. And threads like this give it to them because people who think the stuff worked - come onto threads like this saying "Well all I know is it worked for me - so poo poo it all you like but I have not been to a doctor in over a decade!" - but we do not get the testimonials very often of the many many people who tried it - and it did nothing for them.

Another very powerful aspect of quackery however is incidental assistance. Fuzz above mentions herbs for example. Great example. I have seen a number of people complain of things like low energy and lack of focus and motivation and so forth. Then they were "cured" by herbs. Specifically (of course) a specific concoction of herbs sold by a "practitioner" to a secret recipe only they sell (for quite a mark up on the constituant parts no less).

What you find however is that the herbs came with a lot of recipes and ideas for how to cook and use them. And the people implementing these basically changed their whole diet because of it. Some of them moving from processed ready meals to cooking their own fresh meals and vegetables and so forth. But it _never_ occurs to them that this change in diet and life style "cured" them. No it MUST have been the secret herb concoction.

So yea placebo is a lot more powerful than people think - but a lot of quackery does not reply on it. Rather it is nothing more than packaging simple and well known things in a cloud of woo to create a new product that they can sell.

Akrasia · 27-01-2016 02:13PM

seamus wrote: »

Well yes, it's all quackery. It's all down to the placebo effect, which is barely more effective then doing nothing.

Do I have an issue with people going? No, it's not all that dangerous. My issue is with people advertising these things as treatments on a par with medical ones.
Nobody ever tells you that if your knee is sore, a massage will sort it out - they'll tell you to go see a physio. But if you suffer from chronic back pain or headaches, they'll tell you to go see a chiropractor or osteopath rather than a physio. That's especially dangerous if you have an actual issue like a slipped disc - either of these quacks could cause permanent irreparable damage.

If they were advertised like massages as "spa therapies" or "relaxation treatments" rather than "alternative medicine", then I would have less of an issue.

Thankfully we're not quite as bad here as in the states where there seems to be sub-communities of people who refuse to engage with modern medicine at all and as a result cause needless deaths and injuries to themselves and their children.

There are the arguments to say that quack medicine has it's place when dealing with minor complaints that will get better on their own (it makes people feel better and keeps them away from real doctors who have important work to be doing)

When my kids scrape their knee, a plaster or a kiss makes them feel better

Henceforth, I propose the 'kiss it better' placebo be rolled out for adults. Different 'minor maladies health clinics' where by suitably attractive members of the various genders and sexual preferences administer placebo kisses and hugs to people with scrapes on their knee

Pseudo scientific mumbo about energy and chakras and whatever can be printed to give credence to the gullible and justification to the skeptic who just wants a nice hug.

27-01-2016 02:39PM

Akrasia wrote: »

There are the arguments to say that quack medicine has it's place when dealing with minor complaints that will get better on their own (it makes people feel better and keeps them away from real doctors who have important work to be doing)

I can see the merits of that argument given the number of rubbish complaints people chock up our medical system with. Anything that takes the strain off the public health system would on the face of it look like an idea worth pursuing.

The downside of course is that if people get into that "anti main stream medicine" mentality - even just for the minor complaints - it can carry over into the bigger things and feed into the narratives of everything from quack "doctors" and treatments like homeopathy - to the anti vaccination narratives of conspiracy theorists and worse.

So the over all effect of quack medicine even in relatively minor and insignificant areas - can be quite egregious over all.

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-01-2016 02:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of it is placebo sure. And I would not overly equate placebo with "nothing" given the power placebo has been known to have. If we could truly understand placebo and tap into that capability without woo or quackery - it would be a major advancement in medicine.

But there are other things at play other than placebo. "Return to the mean" is one example which is that peoples conditions tend not to be linear but cyclical. And the time they generally feel desperate enough to try some quackery or other is at the peaks in those cycles when their suffering is at the worst.

That is to say - at the point in their condition when their conditions were about to improve _anyway_. So the timing of this leads people to be convinced that whatever quackery the employed genuinely did help. Rubbing Vicks on your feet appears to be one of these. People think it is ridiculous so of course they only try it when they are the peak of their suffering with flu or the common cold. So of course it appears to work. Then when they get bad again they remember it worked before - apply the vicks to their feet again - and of course recover again. So it ramifies in their mind the efficacy of the treatment and they spread the meme to others.

And a lot of practitioners of quackery know this and they know the GENERAL cyclical timings of many conditions. So they know _just_ when to ask you to come back for further "treatment" so as to have the best chance of coinciding with the cycle and keep the "mark" convinced the treatment is working every time.

And since they do not subject themselves to meta analysis or study - they need little more than a handful of testimonials to keep business alive. And threads like this give it to them because people who think the stuff worked - come onto threads like this saying "Well all I know is it worked for me - so poo poo it all you like but I have not been to a doctor in over a decade!" - but we do not get the testimonials very often of the many many people who tried it - and it did nothing for them.

Another very powerful aspect of quackery however is incidental assistance. Fuzz above mentions herbs for example. Great example. I have seen a number of people complain of things like low energy and lack of focus and motivation and so forth. Then they were "cured" by herbs. Specifically (of course) a specific concoction of herbs sold by a "practitioner" to a secret recipe only they sell (for quite a mark up on the constituant parts no less).

What you find however is that the herbs came with a lot of recipes and ideas for how to cook and use them. And the people implementing these basically changed their whole diet because of it. Some of them moving from processed ready meals to cooking their own fresh meals and vegetables and so forth. But it _never_ occurs to them that this change in diet and life style "cured" them. No it MUST have been the secret herb concoction.

So yea placebo is a lot more powerful than people think - but a lot of quackery does not reply on it. Rather it is nothing more than packaging simple and well known things in a cloud of woo to create a new product that they can sell.

OK, fair enough. Good thing is, I know exactly what's in my herbs, or I can find out.
About the placebo effect, we like to think "I take this pill, prescribed by a western doctor and it will cure me", but that's not entirely how that works. Whatever we take helps our bodies heal themselves. As for placebo effect, again, our immune system is what ultimately heals us. Crazy idea: a good mental attitude helps recovery. If you think "this is all sh*t and won't help me anyway" as opposed "this will help me and I am sure to get better", you will have a different outcome. The same as a stressful and negative environment can make you ill. So to say "all the healing power lies with the pill and nothing else has any bearing" would be silly:
http://proofpositiveco.com/blog/positive-mental-attitude-affects-physical-health/
I know I'm contradicting myself, but this could support why going to an angel healer might help you. Unless you don't believe in it.
You may now call me crazy, I won't even disagree.
As for going to a practitioner over a medical doctor for minor maladies, what does the doctor do? He knows that a bit of bedrest and peppermint tea will sort you out, but he has to prescribe pills, so he does. If it's viral, it won't help and now we have a few more antibiotic resistant bugs. So for a lot of minor stuff, it's worse to go to the GP.

PS:
I would be a big fan of western medicine, if I need surgery, had a bad accident, cancer, need a new limb, no, I would not go to an angel therapist. As for the dentist, I think dentists are the best argument for western medicine. If you have an abscess on your tooth, crystal therapy just will not cut the mustard.
Base line, a bit of mumbo jumbo is not a bad thing, but I see it as an "as well as", not "instead of".

sbsquarepants · 27-01-2016 03:00PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, I take it over western medicine has to offer, i.e. painkillers, massage and surgery and if that doesn't work, crutches. Having suffered with horrendous backpain and crippling sciatica, I am very happy to have a chiropractor, an acupuncturist and a physical therapist in my family. Their nonsense bullsh*t has me painfree me up and walking (or cycling and running).
Even quackwatch can't condemn it fully:
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chiroeval.html
Acupuncture might be your next target, but it worked for me on many occasions, so yes, I am a bit guilty myself, I use it, it works and I don't care if it's snakeoil (or not as some studies have suggested). Works great on jointpain if you ask me. She's also a herbalist. Is it all quackery and dangerous nonsense? I only have a study of one, but I haven't been to a doctor in over 10 years. The last time was simply to get a sick cert for my bad back. When was the last time I was at a doctor because I was sick? 1999 I think. But maybe I'm just freakishly healthy except the odd cold and a dodgy back.
.

As far as I can recall I've been to the doctor 4 times in the past 20 years (I'm 42) The reason was 2 back injuries, 1 ankle injury, 1 elbow injury all work related.
I've been to a chiropractor once with the first back injury - he made it much, worse then told me the problem was I needed special insoles which lucky enough he happened to sell- I had a ruptured disc!. No acupuncture, no herbs (apart from in my dinner).
I am just freakishly healthy except the odd cold and a dodgy back - why couldn't you be too?

27-01-2016 03:13PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

O
About the placebo effect, we like to think "I take this pill, prescribed by a western doctor and it will cure me", but that's not entirely how that works. Whatever we take helps our bodies heal themselves. As for placebo effect, again, our immune system is what ultimately heals us.

Antibiotics physically kill the bacteria, they do cure us. Especially where your immune system has not had time to adapt

27-01-2016 03:21PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

OK, fair enough. Good thing is, I know exactly what's in my herbs, or I can find out.

Oh quite possible. I am cynical of those that do keep the recipe secret of course. But whether you know the contents of it or not - that is not really the main force of what I was pointing out. It was just an incidental point that usually these things are "secret" concoctions.

The main thrust of the point however is that when people implement their cure or life change of choice - like some magic herb - or the cayenne pepper diet (one that was popular recently) - or some program of acupuncture - or whatever - they _usually_ do so in parallel with a host of other changes the practitioner suggests.

And it is very often THOSE changes that have the positive effect - not the actual product or therapy that the person is selling. Again the Cayenne Pepper diet is a wonderful example. People implementing it are using Cayenne Pepper - yes. But they are ALSO admonished by the "plan" to make vast changes in their diet towards healthy fresh vegetables - drinking more water - and many other things that actually do give them some benefit.

So what a lot of these snake oil salesmen and practitioners of woo are actually doing is merely taking a core of good advice - building up a package of complete guff around it - and selling it at a significant mark up.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If you think "this is all sh*t and won't help me anyway" as opposed "this will help me and I am sure to get better", you will have a different outcome.

You and many others do think that yes - but actually some of our trials on this have been very surprising. There have been trials of placebo where the placebo works !_even when the people getting it are TOLD it is a placebo that will do nothing_!

And that really is astounding. It goes against what most of us - as you say above - expect that thinking it will help is what actually makes it work. So whatever the ultimate answer to the mystery of placebo turns out in the future to be - expectation as to it's efficacy may play a MUCH smaller role than you expect.

Another astounding result in placebo is that the more invasive a placebo is the more effective it is. Even when the person receiving it knows it is placebo. So a spoonful of "medicine" is less effective than a pill. A pill is less effective than an injection. And so on.

So "going to an angel healer" as you say - might actually have some placebo influence even IF you do not believe in it.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

As for going to a practitioner over a medical doctor for minor maladies, what does the doctor do? He knows that a bit of bedrest and peppermint tea will sort you out, but he has to prescribe pills, so he does.

That is a separate discussion and one where you will get no argument from me. There is a tendency in mainstream medicine in places like GPs - to prescribe something even when nothing is really warranted. I have no figures I admit on just how pernicious that is - or how widespread - but it is absolutely a bad thing.

Especially - but not limited to - where it is a drain on a social resource like a National Health Insurance plan - or where it has genuine impacts on the over all resistances of our society - such as anti biotics overuse.

So that would be one of the arguments FOR quack medicine if it keeps people out of genuine medicine where they do not actually require any. I just fear that we need to be much clear on whether the benefits of that outweigh the negatives and implications. I _certainly_ do not think it is a good thing when quackery like homeopathy is being paid for out of things like the NHS in the UK and so forth.

27-01-2016 03:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh quite possible. I am cynical of those that do keep the recipe secret of course. But whether you know the contents of it or not - that is not really the main force of what I was pointing out. It was just an incidental point that usually these things are "secret" concoctions.

The main thrust of the point however is that when people implement their cure or life change of choice - like some magic herb - or the cayenne pepper diet (one that was popular recently) - or some program of acupuncture - or whatever - they _usually_ do so in parallel with a host of other changes the practitioner suggests.

And it is very often THOSE changes that have the positive effect - not the actual product or therapy that the person is selling. Again the Cayenne Pepper diet is a wonderful example. People implementing it are using Cayenne Pepper - yes. But they are ALSO admonished by the "plan" to make vast changes in their diet towards healthy fresh vegetables - drinking more water - and many other things that actually do give them some benefit.

So what a lot of these snake oil salesmen and practitioners of woo are actually doing is merely taking a core of good advice - building up a package of complete guff around it - and selling it at a significant mark up.

You and many others do think that yes - but actually some of our trials on this have been very surprising. There have been trials of placebo where the placebo works !_even when the people getting it are TOLD it is a placebo that will do nothing_!

And that really is astounding. It goes against what most of us - as you say above - expect that thinking it will help is what actually makes it work. So whatever the ultimate answer to the mystery of placebo turns out in the future to be - expectation as to it's efficacy may play a MUCH smaller role than you expect.

Another astounding result in placebo is that the more invasive a placebo is the more effective it is. Even when the person receiving it knows it is placebo. So a spoonful of "medicine" is less effective than a pill. A pill is less effective than an injection. And so on.

So "going to an angel healer" as you say - might actually have some placebo influence even IF you do not believe in it.

That is a separate discussion and one where you will get no argument from me. There is a tendency in mainstream medicine in places like GPs - to prescribe something even when nothing is really warranted. I have no figures I admit on just how pernicious that is - or how widespread - but it is absolutely a bad thing.

Especially - but not limited to - where it is a drain on a social resource like a National Health Insurance plan - or where it has genuine impacts on the over all resistances of our society - such as anti biotics overuse.

So that would be one of the arguments FOR quack medicine if it keeps people out of genuine medicine where they do not actually require any. I just fear that we need to be much clear on whether the benefits of that outweigh the negatives and implications. I _certainly_ do not think it is a good thing when quackery like homeopathy is being paid for out of things like the NHS in the UK and so forth.

.
Much agreed re prescription. Antibiotic resistance is reason enough for GPs beingctold limit pills

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-01-2016 03:33PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

As far as I can recall I've been to the doctor 4 times in the past 20 years (I'm 42) The reason was 2 back injuries, 1 ankle injury, 1 elbow injury all work related.
I've been to a chiropractor once with the first back injury - he made it much, worse then told me the problem was I needed special insoles which lucky enough he happened to sell- I had a ruptured disc!. No acupuncture, no herbs (apart from in my dinner).
I am just freakishly healthy except the odd cold and a dodgy back - why couldn't you be too?

Sure, absolutely. A lot of people have serious conditions and need to go to the doctor a lot and nothing else will cut it. Yes, I have been lucky.

Lifestyle also helps a lot. If I drank a sixpack a day, smoked 2 packs and lived on Dominoes, I would be a better customer of our healthservice.

27-01-2016 03:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Much agreed re prescription. Antibiotic resistance is reason enough for GPs beingctold limit pills

Would be nice but I am not sure how workable it is. People expect pills when they go to the GP. If they do not get them - they go to another GP who will. I have done it myself. When I _knew_ what was wrong with me one time (it was something I had had before with Dublin Doctors) and a doctor in cork diagnosed me and prescribed me something completely wrong - I simply went down the road to the next doctor.

In this case it was not antibiotics I was demanding - it was an anti spasmodic for stomach pains - but the first doctor prescribed me something entirely different for an entirely different diagnosis.

But the principle is the same. People will go to the doctors who give them what they want. And if a doctor holds back Anti Biotics from patients who think they need them - they are going to end up losing a lot of business. So they prescribe them anyway.

So merely telling them to stop will not work. Some system to enforce it is required and I am not sure what a workable one might be - short of demanding doctors provide a positive culture grown from the patient to show the bacteria being treated by the prescription was actually present. And that would be - pretty awful.

A_Sober_Paddy · 27-01-2016 04:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The only meta data that I found in favour of acupuncture was Vickers et al and it was heavily criticised for its selection criteria.

Again it's been a while and my pub med subscription has lapsed but would like to know if there is more data presented recently.
Chiropractic I would not risk as it's unstandardised and not at all understood (or peer proven afaik) . There MAY be benefit but just not there yet for me.
Physical therapy, would prefer orthopaedic examination and physiotherapy.

Herbs???? With you there. Medicine investigated plants (still does), took the active compounds and uses that

Doesn't acupuncture work for some things, by drawing oxegenated blood through tissue, which can promote heeling, but the whole energy lines angle is complete bollox

27-01-2016 04:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Would be nice but I am not sure how workable it is. People expect pills when they go to the GP. If they do not get them - they go to another GP who will. I have done it myself. When I _knew_ what was wrong with me one time (it was something I had had before with Dublin Doctors) and a doctor in cork diagnosed me and prescribed me something completely wrong - I simply went down the road to the next doctor.

In this case it was not antibiotics I was demanding - it was an anti spasmodic for stomach pains - but the first doctor prescribed me something entirely different for an entirely different diagnosis.

But the principle is the same. People will go to the doctors who give them what they want. And if a doctor holds back Anti Biotics from patients who think they need them - they are going to end up losing a lot of business. So they prescribe them anyway.

So merely telling them to stop will not work. Some system to enforce it is required and I am not sure what a workable one might be - short of demanding doctors provide a positive culture grown from the patient to show the bacteria being treated by the prescription was actually present. And that would be - pretty awful.

When I say tell I mean politely enforce.
Have pharmacies record their AB sales Vs GP prescribing.
Have random audits of records for spikes, mystery shopper style patients, fines for over prescription.

Allow GPs prescribe C6H12O6 pills??

FluffyMcCardy · 27-01-2016 05:12PM

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

The paper you're referring to can be read here

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827581/

we can.

That's a heavy duty read. I suspect I read a summary at the time! It does occur to me that it's possible the OP's housemate could be schizophrenic or something. I have to say in that case I would not be inclined to argue or try to enlighten her. You might find yourself being accused of being part of the conspiracy. I was once accused of being in the pay of the US government, if only, when I commented on something in own name on YouTube. One of the nutters Googled me and made some scary comments. Lesson learned.

Don't get involved.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-01-2016 05:44PM

everybody knows its hollow not flat:rolleyes:

Steve F · 27-01-2016 05:46PM

If you think she's bad OP Google David Icke.Crackpot who's made a fortune

The_Valeyard · 27-01-2016 05:56PM

Maybe she is right and Earth is simply Gods frisbee covered with germs cause he hasent played with it in a while.

Antar Bolaeisk · 27-01-2016 06:21PM

I recently met a grown man, purportedly of reasonable intellect, who genuinely believed that the lunar landings were faked. Initially I thought he was simply joking, an attempt to wind me up having been talking about the great time I had had at Kennedy Space Centre but no, he genuinely thought the whole thing was a great big hoax. It didn't stop there either, I made the unfortunate mistake of delving in to that rabbit hole and it went way deeper than I was willing to go.

I don't know how I'd react to meeting someone who believed that the Earth was flat, for now I'm happy that they're still just an internet myth to me.

Antar Bolaeisk · 27-01-2016 06:21PM

I recently met a grown man, purportedly of reasonable intellect, who genuinely believed that the lunar landings were faked. Initially I thought he was simply joking, an attempt to wind me up having been talking about the great time I had had at Kennedy Space Centre but no, he genuinely thought the whole thing was a great big hoax. It didn't stop there either, I made the unfortunate mistake of delving in to that rabbit hole and it went way deeper than I was willing to go.

I don't know how I'd react to meeting someone who believed that the Earth was flat, for now I'm happy that they're still just an internet myth to me.

ohnonotgmail · 27-01-2016 06:27PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That video. Just fcuking wow. Anyone who ever dug up any kind of fossil or anyone who has an above room temperature IQ (Celsius) will have to watch that with a sickbag. I don't know where to even begin. She has to be trolling. No one that stupid should even be able to sit in a chair unaided. I have lost all faith in humanity.

i showed that vid to a mate of mine. He instantly recognised her as somebody who was outed as a wind-up merchant some time ago.

darkpagandeath · 27-01-2016 08:05PM

What's their opinion on chemtrails killing angles, And on fluoride making us docile maybe we need to fluoride the water in the ME....

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-01-2016 08:09PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's their opinion on chemtrails killing angles, And on fluoride making us docile maybe we need to fluoride the water in the ME....

And vaccinations. There are people who have made it their crusade to stop as many people as possible to immunise their kids. This is where idiocy turns into assault causing harm.

Lone Stone · 27-01-2016 08:12PM

Errh isn't the universe potentially paper thin we just perceive it this way so could be flat.. Again.. Or that night bill**** I read on a popular science news fb page.

Fratton Fred · 27-01-2016 09:29PM

So the world isn't flat and carried through the universe carried by four elephants riding on the back of a giant turtle?

What about wizards?

AND DEATH?

darkpagandeath · 27-01-2016 09:46PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So the world isn't flat and carried through the universe carried by four elephants riding on the back of a giant turtle?

What about wizards?

AND DEATH?

It's Turtles all the way down.

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-01-2016 11:57PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So the world isn't flat and carried through the universe carried by four elephants riding on the back of a giant turtle?

What about wizards?

AND DEATH?

Something to do with quantum and the trousers of time.
THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME. And Binky of course.

Now I'm talking to the right flat earthers!

Capt'n Midnight · 28-01-2016 01:56AM

Here's the maths On the Viability of Conspiratorial Beliefs
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905

Extrapolating from proven conspiracies (NSA/PRISM, Tuskegee syphilis experiment, FBI forensic scandal) and based on the number of people involved then the maximum time a conspiracy can exist without being officially acknowledged can be estimated.

NB. this is not the time for the first leak. It's the time after the last cover up or denial.

For the big ones Anti-Vax, Moon landings, Climate Change, Hiding a cure for cancer the maximum time is 3.7 years.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0147905.t003

The flat earth conspiracy would have to explain all the ISS sightings, and why the stars look different in on the other side of the equator. And how sundials work. And why I've to align my satellite dish. And the line of sight problem with radio / TV transmission. And why the oceans don't flow off the edges and what holds the air here. And seismologists and detecting earthquakes. And the whole tectonic plate thing , again why don't continents just flow off the edge ?

Maximus Alexander · 28-01-2016 02:10AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The flat earth conspiracy would have to explain all the ISS sightings, and why the stars look different in on the other side of the equator. And how sundials work. And why I've to align my satellite dish. And the line of sight problem with radio / TV transmission. And why the oceans don't flow off the edges and what holds the air here. And seismologists and detecting earthquakes. And the whole tectonic plate thing , again why don't continents just flow off the edge ?

I have heard some claim that the Earth is flat but infinite in all directions, which is why the oceans don't flow over the edge. And that it is constantly accelerating upwards, which is what gives rise to gravity and keeps the air here. I don't know how any of that is supposed to fit with... a cursory glance at the sky though.

Capt'n Midnight · 28-01-2016 02:27AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I have heard some claim that the Earth is flat but infinite in all directions, which is why the oceans don't flow over the edge. And that it is constantly accelerating upwards, which is what gives rise to gravity and keeps the air here. I don't know how any of that is supposed to fit with... a cursory glance at the sky though.

Constant acceleration can explains gravity but only in one plane. It can't explain why the towers of the Golden Gate bridge are vertical when measured against gravity but are a few inches out of parallel because of the curvature.

Pendulums swing at different speeds depending on how far you are from the equator because there's different acceleration down there

syklops · 28-01-2016 02:41AM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Both hokum! Don't you know were are a genetic experiment by aliens. I am being kept up to date on this stuff by my GF, she doesn't care that it is actually physically painful for me to listen to that sh*t. She doesn't believe Earth is flat, but she does believe Earth is hollow and filled with spaceships, the moon is a spaceship, there is an intergalactic war going on above our heads for the last 300 years, Obama is a lizard being, the US has a secret spaceprogram and no one has ever heard about it, there are Stargates buried around the planet and on top of that fairies, unicorns and sitting on top of it all the Arcturians
Her "proof" is that people have been told that stuff in visions or they have a psychic connection directly to those alien races. Funny how there is never any actual evidence, only crazy people who meditate alone at night and are "given" this knowledge.
Can someone please answer me this: How have we made it this far? How are insane people allowed out unsupervised? I just don't get it. Her main argument against me is "but you watch Star Trek! You should know about that stuff!". Yes I do. I know it's FICTION!!!
For anyone who know a flat earther or such like, please print out this handy diagram:

Tbh, I'd be very surprised if the USA doesnt have a secret space program.

I also meditate from time to time, but I've never gotten any wisdom from it. Mostly it calms me, or makes me fall asleep.

The flat earth thing... I read BoB tweets today. If someone with his resources honestly thought the earth was flat, surely he would go to find The Edge. Not the U2 band member but the edge of the world. Surely after circumnavigating the globe a couple of times the truth might sink in.

Jesus Wept · 28-01-2016 02:48AM

maybe she is right, who knows really

Sooooo...turns out my new roommate is a flat earther.

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