Hardware store saying they undercharged me months ago

Shanry · 18-01-2016 02:21PM #1

Hi
My husband and I are building a home at present.
we bought insulation from a company back in Sep or Oct 2015 and paid someone to put it in.
Got a phone all today from the company saying the had undercharged us at the time and we now owe them €3000!
We haven't got the money as we're completely skint trying to finish the house and pay builders.
I'd like to tell them to shove it but legally I don't know where we stand.
Can anyone advise?
Thanks

Ken. · 18-01-2016 02:24PM

Well first things first. Did they undercharge or are they chancing their arm?

GBX · 18-01-2016 02:24PM

Did you receive a receipt at the time from them for what was purchased?

finglashoop · 18-01-2016 02:27PM

Undercharged sounds like they made the mistake. And now they are chancing their arm.

whippet · 18-01-2016 02:27PM

were you given a quote and did you accept the quote and pay the figure on the quote?

PaddyWilliams · 18-01-2016 02:28PM

I'd tell them to sling their hook

L1011 · 18-01-2016 02:31PM

3000 is rather a lot for an "undercharge" on insulation - how much did you pay them to begin with?

Shanry · 22-01-2016 10:15AM

We have the receipt, they say the charged us for one sheet of insulation instead of one bale. We even sent back unused ones and they gave us some money back! They still hadn't spotted the mistake.
I don't think we should be paying anything back but my husband thinks we should give them something back per week as we got the goods. He's too soft ðŸ˜„

Arbiter of Good Taste · 22-01-2016 11:32AM

Shanry wrote: »

We have the receipt, they say the charged us for one sheet of insulation instead of one bale. We even sent back unused ones and they gave us some money back! They still hadn't spotted the mistake.
I don't think we should be paying anything back but my husband thinks we should give them something back per week as we got the goods. He's too soft ðŸ˜„

Assuming it's a genuine mistake, there's doing what's legal and then there is doing what's right. Your husband sounds like a decent person, so I think it's a bit off calling him "too soft" for wanting to do the right thing. Though I would expect some reasonable discount for the inconvenience.

TheChizler · 22-01-2016 11:39AM

What percentage was the undercharge of what you were actually charged? Small enough to miss or so big you should notice it?

looksee · 22-01-2016 11:40AM

Presumably you mean that for every bale of insulation they supplied they charged for one sheet? Was there a quote involved? If it really was as simple as you ordered goods and they delivered and sent you an invoice, with no further discussion, then presumably its their loss. Not morally, but that is up to you.

looksee · 22-01-2016 11:44AM

TheChizler wrote: »

What percentage was the undercharge of what you were actually charged? Small enough to miss or so big you should notice it?

Well if there were, say 10 sheets to a bale, then they were charged 10% of what they should have paid. Even if there were only 5 to a bale it was still only 20% of what should have been paid. And presumably there was some convoluted calculation for VAT in there too. It was a pretty noticeable amount, though granted if you were building and a lot of invoices were flying through, especially if this was one item on a multiple item invoice, it would be easy enough to miss.

the_syco · 22-01-2016 01:07PM

Shanry wrote: »

We even sent back unused ones and they gave us some money back!

I wonder are they trying to charge you tor this one?

Manach · 22-01-2016 01:19PM

Basically, the store are out of pocket and this is due to their underpricing which the OP had accepted in good faith. The invitation to treat stage (the initial bargain phase) seems to have well gone past at this stage which distingushes this from say mistakes on web site pricing. So, the OP has no need to pay for the store's mistake.

xband · 22-01-2016 01:29PM

Surely there is no on-going relationship though.

The store made an offer.
The customer accepted the offer.
The customer paid for the goods and took ownership of them.

All of that occurred in good faith and surely the contract is now complete and has been fulfilled by both parties?

The store claims to have made an error but the contract was fully completed and while I may be completely wrong, where in contract law would they have a right to try to reopen this?

They made a big error, that's why you double check invoices before accepting payment and completely signing off on them.

The customer could be nice and pay extra but, I'm not seeing where they'd have any legal obligation to do so.

I mean I have no idea how much goods I buy are worth and I don't have to think "oh wait, maybe that price is a mistake" if I'm offered what looks like a hard discount.

If the world worked like that you'd be unable to complete any sale without the risk of the seller coming along and attempting to claw back money afterwards, claiming they made a mistake.

You'd have people coming back saying they sold their house too cheap and want another €50 grand.

My feeling is they're chancing their arm.

BettePorter · 22-01-2016 01:43PM

I assume this from from a builders Providers rather than (kingspan) or the like. Builders Providers are notorious for mistakes like this. Having worked for one I can guess what happened. Order was taken over the phone or at desk .... handwritten, delivery docket counterfoil, stating one bale .... but when it went as far as system ... one sheet was selected instead of bale and it only came to light when it came to someone matching invoices. Legally I'm not sure where you stand but id say there is someone in the office who got a right bollocking and was told ..... you ring them and sort it. I'm pretty sure they ve written it off in their mind though in terms of imagining you ll pay.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 22-01-2016 01:47PM

Manach wrote: »

Basically, the store are out of pocket and this is due to their underpricing which the OP had accepted in good faith. The invitation to treat stage (the initial bargain phase) seems to have well gone past at this stage which distingushes this from say mistakes on web site pricing. So, the OP has no need to pay for the store's mistake.

And what if the opposite happened - the OP was going through her costs and realised they were overcharged, but at the time had accepted the invoice in good faith?

Does she have a legal requirement to pay them? Probably not.

Does she have a moral/ethical requirement? Depends really the type of person she likes to think she is I suppose.....

MileyReilly · 22-01-2016 01:53PM

You know you owe them the money. Pay them.

Poncke · 22-01-2016 01:58PM

MileyReilly wrote: »

You know you owe them the money. Pay them.

No they don't owe anything.

mikeymouse · 22-01-2016 02:13PM

Shanry wrote: »

We have the receipt, they say the charged us for one sheet of insulation instead of one bale. We even sent back unused ones and they gave us some money back! They still hadn't spotted the mistake.
I don't think we should be paying anything back but my husband thinks we should give them something back per week as we got the goods. He's too soft ðŸ˜„

Undercharged by 3K AND refunded full price on unused material,
probably made money on the deal and got free insulation into the bargain.
I hope they come round and take the insulation back .
Do the decent thing ,op

EnergyPro · 22-01-2016 02:46PM

Shanry wrote:

We have the receipt, they say the charged us for one sheet of insulation instead of one bale. We even sent back unused ones and they gave us some money back! They still hadn't spotted the mistake. I don't think we should be paying anything back but my husband thinks we should give them something back per week as we got the goods. He's too soft Ã°Å¸Ëœâ€ž

I they charged for one sheet instead of a bale, and you returned some and got a refund, did you end up making money on this? Just wondering!! Seems like their mistake but personally I probably would try to arrange some payment plan if at all possible if I actually got the goods. That's a matter of personal choice though. I'm not sure of the legal standing on this

EnergyPro · 22-01-2016 02:51PM

mikeymouse wrote:

Undercharged by 3K AND refunded full price on unused material, probably made money on the deal and got free insulation into the bargain. I hope they come round and take the insulation back . Do the decent thing ,op

Sorry missed above post before posting mine

seamus · 22-01-2016 03:04PM

Something doesn't really add up here, as others have pointed out. Either their claim of only charging for one sheet is incorrect, or you did actually notice this and decided to say nothing. Even if you bought ten bales and returned 3 sheets, you would notice that you got a 30% refund on the price you paid for returning only a couple of sheets.

Assuming you didn't make an oversight that enormous, then I'd say they're telling porkies. Get a proper detailed breakdown from them in terms of pricing - what was charged for, and what should have been charged.

mrbrianj · 22-01-2016 03:14PM

If the OP called up the supplier and was given a price for the supply of the insulation, paid that price and received the materials. What's wrong?

The OP is doing a self build and not a professional contractor - probably the only time they will ever buy insulation, and would not be expected to know the price for insulation other than that quoted by the supplier.

The OP has to decide whether they were quoted the price they paid, and the supplier simply made a mistake AND the OP wishes to redress this for whatever reason, OR if the Supplier misquoted to get the business and is trying to pull a fast one.

EnergyPro · 22-01-2016 03:17PM

mrbrianj wrote:

The OP has to decide whether they were quoted the price they paid, and the supplier simply made a mistake AND the OP wishes to redress this for whatever reason, OR if the Supplier misquoted to get the business and is trying to pull a fast one.

Agreed I think this is the key point. If the store quotes this price agreed and sold it then I'd tell them where to go. But if it is a genuine mistake when invoicing and no quote was agreed on I would consider cooperating.

Rob Thomas · 22-01-2016 03:23PM

EnergyPro wrote: »

Agreed I think this is the key point. If the store quotes this price agreed and sold it then I'd tell them where to go. But if it is a genuine mistake when invoicing and no quote was agreed on I would consider cooperating.

Ya this has to come into it. If the original quote was, say, €8,000 but the invoice when it came was only €5k due to the error in bales v sheets then its easy to work out what you got and what you actually paid for.

Just as an aside, if they made this mistake on the invoice does that mean that whoever checked off the delivery docket, which usually has the same information, marked off a bale when only a sheet was on the docket? Or maybe the error was in their setting up the price per unit, which may not be on the delivery docket checked.

If it were me and I definately got the stuff, Id look for a good discount for inconvenience and pay them the rest if I had it.

EnergyPro · 22-01-2016 03:34PM

Rob Thomas wrote:

If it were me and I definately got the stuff, Id look for a good discount for inconvenience and pay them the rest if I had it.

Same route I would take. I don't think they can come on strong and demand the money up front. But I think a significant discount and a payment plan is reasonable if it is a genuine error

Little CuChulainn · 22-01-2016 04:21PM

I gotta ask, did you accept delivery and sign for the goods? If you signed for 5 sheets and took 5 bails then that could be a problem.

nikkibikki · 22-01-2016 04:37PM

If you do pay, don't pay a penny more than cost price. They have to accept some liability for their error.

brian_t · 22-01-2016 05:01PM

mikeymouse wrote: »

Undercharged by 3K AND refunded full price on unused material,
probably made money on the deal and got free insulation into the bargain.

Where does the OP say that they were refunded at a different price to that which they were initially charged

or are you making this up.

Little CuChulainn · 22-01-2016 05:48PM

brian_t wrote: »

Where does the OP say that they were refunded at a different price to that which they were initially charged

or are you making this up.

Shanry wrote: »

We have the receipt, they say the charged us for one sheet of insulation instead of one bale. We even sent back unused ones and they gave us some money back! They still hadn't spotted the mistake.

I'm not sure where this idea has come from that if someone makes a genuine mistake you can take advantage of it as much as possible. Whatever about accepting delivery for a large order and only paying a small amount for it, actually returning some of that material you did not pay for and getting a refund is very much in the realm of a deliberate fraud.

Hardware store saying they undercharged me months ago

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