Off licences and draconian closing times

16-01-2016 04:11PM

Herb Powell wrote: »

The law is bolloccks, and the people making smug references to alcoholism are missing the point completely.

Especially when the person they're throwing these logical fallacies at hasn't drank alcohol in 4-and-a-half years.

I don't take any intoxicating substances, but I'm noting going to tell other when or when they shouldn't either.

Their lives, their choice.

Tigger · 16-01-2016 04:16PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Yeah, you're right, alcohol is much more important than food.

I love the old shift work analogy too, it makes me smile. Take London for example, how many 24 hour pubs are there in that city of ten million people? Eight? Ten? Something like that anyway. If you can find me one shift worker in any of those that are open at 3am any morning in the next week I will give you Stg£1000. Queen's head.

do staff count?

16-01-2016 04:16PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's plenty more drink related problems besides alcoholism. The inability to forward plan seems to be a major one for a lot of folk.:pac:

The inability to debate this subject logically is certainly one. Any more logical fallacious you want to throw at me? Should I seek counselling for "alcohol controlling my life" despite me not having a drink for nearly 5 years?

thattequilagirl · 16-01-2016 04:23PM

"511 wrote: »

Secondly, I cut my own hair but waiting until to next day for a haircut won't kill me. Hair grows very slowly, in case you haven't noticed

Is there an alternative to alcohol? No, so why do you keep making these idiotic analogies? You continue to compare chalk and cheese.

Because there's obviously demand for 24 off-licenses. Duh!

- Not drinking for a night won't kill anyone either

- There are loads of alternative things to do apart from alcohol

- There's demand for heroin and Coke too...

c montgomery · 16-01-2016 04:34PM

511 wrote: »

How would you know? Have you surveyed 1000 night shift workers to rule out the margin of error? No doubt this is completely anecdotal data you just made up.

What if they want to have a drink before they go to bed? No point drinking during the day if they have to work later again.

Except nurses who work for 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. How would they look bringing alcohol into a hospital? Imagine walking into a hospital with a bag of cans at 8 p.m., storing them in a cupboard somewhere and the cans being at room temperature by the time they get home? It's just so much easier to visit a off-license when you finish work.

In the city, they have no problem, but no-one if forcing them to stay open 24, they should have to freedom to close whenever they want, which would reduce to costs.

Why don't you get over the fact that there's nothing wrong with 24 off-licenses

I don't drink and I don't work night shifts, I just despise the government trying to control every inch of our lives, especially when to ulterior motive here is the protect a dying pub trade.

No I haven't surveyed anyone but worked nights myself and most would have went straight to bed. I'm sure those that wanted a drink after work would have some at home rather than having the inconvenience of going to the off licence after work.

In all of your examples the people working the shift pattern would have loads of time outside of work to buy alcohol. For most people this isn't an issue at all, just in your mind.

You have no evidence of the demand for 24 hour off licences either.

You sound like a bit of a Muppet

end of the road · 16-01-2016 04:54PM

Boskowski wrote: »

If it bothers you that much maybe a couple of nights off the juice is just what you need.

oh, another one of them. great.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm sure you've read lots of evidence to justify your absolute certainty.

frankly he is correct. plenty of visible evidence to back up his point if your prepared to look for it

thattequilagirl wrote: »

- Not drinking for a night won't kill anyone either

most people drink once a week. the chap you replied to hasn't for 4-5 years. try again.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

- There are loads of alternative things to do apart from alcohol

grand, most of us do them. still no argument for the anti-competitive protectionist restrictions.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

- There's demand for heroin and Coke too...

apart from all being a drug, that point has no relevance to the discussion. try again.

c montgomery wrote: »

Yawn

How does it discriminate against people who work nights? Off licences are closed at night when people work nights!!
If anything it's easier for people who work nights to nip to the offie during the day.

Just buy a few bottles/cans and keep them in the house for when you want them.
Poor planning on your part does not constitute discrimination

the restrictions are anti-competitive and protectionism of the publican. thats the only reason they exist.

c montgomery wrote: »

Even if off licences were allowed to operate 24 hours I bet most wouldn't as demand would not be there to justify the costs of staying open.

fine, that would be up to them. however they would have the choice.

c montgomery wrote: »

Just get over it and buy some to have in the house for "emergency" situations.

no, we won't "get over it" publican. we won't be coming back to your pub and no matter how many anti-competitive laws you get your little government friends to bring in, we won't be back. your finished.

c montgomery wrote: »

You have no evidence of the demand for 24 hour off licences either.

lets remove the restrictions and see.

c montgomery wrote: »

You sound like a bit of a Muppet

oh, resorting to personal abuse now your arguments have been debunked. well done sir, i wondered how long it would be before you resorted to that.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

They're open long enough.

they aren't. only publicans or nanny state supporters would think otherwise. the days of everyone going home at 5 pm went years ago. this is about protectionism of the publicans so they can continue ripping off people.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

As someone who likes a drink meself, the childish relationship many people have with alcohol never ceases to amaze me.

a small few at most. the rest are right to be annoyed over restrictions that are blatent protectionism of the publicans, and that are anti-competitive.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If it was a banana or a head of lettuce you'd have to wait until the shop opened, but if it's a bottles of cheap suds lets throw our toys out of the pram and cry like big babies.

if it was a shop they could open when they liked, for as long as they liked. if you wanted to get a banana or a head of lettuce, you could find out where the 24 hour shop is and drive to it. try again.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

People are idiots.

Who knew?

his point is still correct, it proves restrictions don't work.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Why is it so wrong to buy your alcohol at a time when the off licenses are open?

why shouldn't he be able to buy it at his convenience, and why shouldn't the off licence decide when its best for their business to open and shut?

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If alcohol has that much control over your life that you can't treat its purchase the same as you could a bit of good butcher meat foe the dinner, a trip to the cinema or a haircut, then I don't think it's meant for you.

and this everyone, proves the likes of him have no valid argument. "begorra yarra must be an alcoholic for wanting to be able to buy at your own convenience begod" . i would say simply this is a chap who wishes to be able to buy at his own convenience.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You say why do they have to close, I say why do they have to stay open?

i say why shouldn't they not be able to open and shut when they feel its best for their business? why are you so concerned that some realize restrictions on alcohol are blatent protectionism and nothing more, and don't actually work? if anything, its those who want to keep the restrictions dispite there being no argument to do so, and evidence that they have no effect, that are the problem.

Badly Drunk Boy · 16-01-2016 05:39PM

511 wrote: »

Except nurses who work for 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. How would they look bringing alcohol into a hospital? Imagine walking into a hospital with a bag of cans at 8 p.m., storing them in a cupboard somewhere and the cans being at room temperature by the time they get home? It's just so much easier to visit a off-license when you finish work.

Why do you think that people working nights would buy the drink on their way into work? In the past, I often worked 8pm to 8am and if I wanted to buy alcohol, I'd probably do my shopping at 3 or 4 pm, and bring it home, where cans could be chilling, if that's what I bought.

As I said already, I don't agree with the 10pm closing time. I reckon it'd be fair if off-licences were open to the same times as the pubs, like they used to.

Pac1Man · 16-01-2016 05:55PM

511 wrote: »

Except nurses who work for 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. How would they look bringing alcohol into a hospital? Imagine walking into a hospital with a bag of cans at 8 p.m., storing them in a cupboard somewhere and the cans being at room temperature by the time they get home? It's just so much easier to visit a off-license when you finish work.

What about not bringing it into work with them. SHOCK HORROR!!:eek:

They could leave it in the car.

Del2005 · 16-01-2016 05:56PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If it was a banana or a head of lettuce you'd have to wait until the shop opened, but if it's a bottles of cheap suds lets throw our toys out of the pram and cry like big babies.

If it was a banana or head of lettuce I'd walk to the till and pay for them or do you want all businesses, bar pubs, shut at 10pm?

I work nights and have often had a few cans after a shift to wind down, sometimes it's hectic in work and others I'm too awake after driving home. Yet unless I get to the off licence the day before I have to stare at the ceiling for a few hours after work.

Since originally they told us that the restricted hours where to stop antisocial behaviour and it plainly hasn't worked they need to change the law to allow off licences open the same hours as on licences. Deal with the antisocial people and don't be tarring us all as scumbags.

hatrickpatrick · 16-01-2016 05:57PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm sure you've read lots of evidence to justify your absolute certainty.

My evidence is purely anecdotal, but I can tell you that there have been many nights when I and many of my friends are heading to a college session at 9/9.30 and go nuts on multipacks in case we end up pulling an all nighter. If they were open 24/7 we'd buy far less and just wander back if we actually wanted more (but the effort of having to make the trip would ensure that we'd think twice about whether we really wanted to do it).

Of course this wouldn't change for people who live far away from offies, but if you're in the city and there's an offie next door which is constantly open, you're not going to buy massive crates.

K-9 · 17-01-2016 12:32AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

My evidence is purely anecdotal, but I can tell you that there have been many nights when I and many of my friends are heading to a college session at 9/9.30 and go nuts on multipacks in case we end up pulling an all nighter. If they were open 24/7 we'd buy far less and just wander back if we actually wanted more (but the effort of having to make the trip would ensure that we'd think twice about whether we really wanted to do it).

Of course this wouldn't change for people who live far away from offies, but if you're in the city and there's an offie next door which is constantly open, you're not going to buy massive crates.

The reverse also applies, if it is next door it is easier to just buy a 6 pack and ease of access means you can still do the all nighter.

Tbh I think the widespread availability of off licences makes up for the times, sure they're fecking everywhere. Even villages or small towns near me have 2 or 3. Any filling station or decent newsagent have them now.

zurbfoundation · 17-01-2016 12:39AM

I'm usually organised for this early cut off, but the time it really bothers me is in the height of summer, like last week of June when it's bright till 11. I'm
Often digging in the garden and losing track of time, when I finish up and think I will have a beer? It's too late.

deco nate · 17-01-2016 01:05AM

Taylor365 wrote: »

Fly to London and pick up a few tins.

Be back in time for kippers!

Or just buy it in the airport?

deco nate · 17-01-2016 01:16AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's plenty more drink related problems besides alcoholism. The inability to forward plan seems to be a major one for a lot of folk.:pac:

But not for those that have posted from a pub during a lock in eh?
See that's one of the downers in living in a city. Less chance of a lock in.
Lucky you;)

thattequilagirl · 17-01-2016 01:29AM

deco nate wrote: »

But not for those that have posted from a pub during a lock in eh?
See that's one of the downers in living in a city. Less chance of a lock in.
Lucky you;)

Most people here must live in central Dublin - I have loads of friends who work shifts in Galway who don't have loads of 24 hour shops local to them - apart from maybe a petrol station. Poor guys have to organize their food shopping, booze shopping, and all their other messages by 10pm as shops aren't open after that down the country. Somehow, they survive!

end of the road · 17-01-2016 01:34AM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Most people here must live in central Dublin - I have loads of friends who work shifts in Galway who don't have loads of 24 hour shops local to them - apart from maybe a petrol station. Poor guys have to organize their food shopping, booze shopping, and all their other messages by 10pm as shops aren't open after that down the country. Somehow, they survive!

the shops could open 24 hours if they wanted to and there was the demand. off licences can't to try protect the publicans. try again.

The Backwards Man · 17-01-2016 01:35AM

deco nate wrote: »

But not for those that have posted from a pub during a lock in eh?
See that's one of the downers in living in a city. Less chance of a lock in.
Lucky you;)

As the great Phil Collins once said; Just do as I say don't do as I do:)

The Backwards Man · 17-01-2016 01:37AM

end of the road wrote: »

the shops could open 24 hours if they wanted to and there was the demand. off licences can't to try protect the publicans. try again.

When you live somewhere where they don't, it's no big deal to plan ahead though.

thattequilagirl · 17-01-2016 01:41AM

end of the road wrote: »

the shops could open 24 hours if they wanted to and there was the demand. off licences can't to try protect the publicans. try again.

No need for me to "try again". My point is that it's perfectly possible to organise it so that you get your booze, food and anything else you need within regular business hours - and that point stands.

endacl · 17-01-2016 01:42AM

Pedantic hat on, and probably a tangent, but, aside from that most excellent 1995 album by Paradise Lost, how can a time (as in o'clock, as opposed to period, epoch, or era) be described as 'draconian'?

I don't think draconian means what you think it means, OP....

The Backwards Man · 17-01-2016 01:44AM

endacl wrote: »

Pedantic hat on, and probably a tangent, but, aside from that most excellent 1995 album by Paradise Lost, how can a time (as in o'clock, as opposed to period, epoch, or era) be described as 'draconian'?

I don't think draconian means what you think it means, OP....

It's all Greek to me

RayCon · 17-01-2016 01:45AM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

- There's demand for heroin and Coke too...

That's a bi-polar party

quadrifoglio verde · 17-01-2016 02:08AM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

No need for me to "try again". My point is that it's perfectly possible to organise it so that you get your booze, food and anything else you need within regular business hours - and that point stands.

While yes in theory one could have got their shopping done before closing time there is no rule out their that says I have to buy my food before 10 at night.

There is for alcohol. That's wrong. The chronic alcoholic is going to be into the off licence when it opens, they're going to make sure they have enough and always have enough These rules won't save them or their liver
14 year olds on the way to the local gaa disco or Wes are going to have their booze sorted. There's always a passerby with less morals, an older sibling remembering back to when they were 14 or parents who don't give a **** whether their young boy or girl is puking their guts up as a result of drinking half a naggin for the first time

Meanwhile Joe soap was home late from whatever, wants a few beers while he watches Darcy or whatever and realises he has no beer. He might have wine. He might have whiskey, but hey, he doesn't want either. Yes had a long week and wanted a few beers but its 5 past 10 in a western civilised society

Apparently though he's the bad guy. He doesn't even want to get pissed. His liver is fine. He won't be needing a transplant in a years time for a new liver because he destroyed his one with booze. He won't be taken to hospital because he passed out at a teenage disco.

But he's the bad guy

Come off it people honestly.
An off licence should be allowed sell alcohol at all hours if it Wants.
Most people won't buy at all hours, so most won't open but some will. And the people who want to buy a few cans of beer at 5 in the morning shouldn't be prevented by idiotic rules who hinder the wrong people in the first place

buried · 17-01-2016 02:54AM

Question for the posters in here who see no problem with the 10 pm off-licence closing hour. What do ye think the reason is that the off-licences have to close on the dot at 10 pm? I mean, ye see no problem with the closure hour, you agree with it, so, what's the logic or reason for it? There must be some reason as some of you strongly agree with it. I can't see the reasoning in it at all so I'd like to hear why does the 10 pm closure hour make sense to some of you folks?

B.A._Baracus · 17-01-2016 03:06AM

Only absolute idiots agree with the closing of off-licenses at 10pm.
Because of one simple thing... You can still buy alcohol in pubs until 11:30/12:30 or late night clubs/bars until 2:30am.

The whole official reason for closing off-licenses at 10pm was to "top binge drinking" but yet hey, get as pissed as you like in a pub. Just of course expect to pay a much higher price!

Azalea · 17-01-2016 03:10AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

They're open long enough. As someone who likes a drink meself, the childish relationship many people have with alcohol never ceases to amaze me.

The 10pm closing time on Friday and Saturday nights is ridiculously early. Having this view does not necessarily mean a person has a childish relationship with alcohol.
I don't think there is a need for 24-hour off-licences, but staying open until midnight on a Friday/Saturday night is hardly excessive. People's plans can change. People can be busy with other stuff at 10pm. People might decide at 10pm that they don't want to go out and would prefer to have a few cans at home. People might want to drive to the pub to meet friends for a while and then want to have a drink themselves at home. And people DO work late - I don't know why this is being sneered at as poor reasoning.

The implications that people have a drink problem for wanting to buy drink at 11pm is silly. A person with a drink problem would more likely stock well ahead, rather than have no booze in the house and decide "off the cuff" they'd like a drink at home.

K-9 · 17-01-2016 03:11AM

buried wrote: »

Question for the posters in here who see no problem with the 10 pm off-licence closing hour. What do ye think the reason is that the off-licences have to close on the dot at 10 pm? I mean, ye see no problem with the closure hour, you agree with it, so, what's the logic or reason for it? There must be some reason as some of you strongly agree with it. I can't see the reasoning in it at all so I'd like to hear why does the 10 pm closure hour make sense to some of you folks?

It isn't something I feel strongly about and I have been inconvenienced by it on the past. The same opening hours as pubs would make sense.

I just don't see why people get bothered by it, rants about Government and publicans. As I said before, off licences are everywhere these days so that balances the hours for me.

Azalea · 17-01-2016 03:12AM

buried wrote: »

Question for the posters in here who see no problem with the 10 pm off-licence closing hour. What do ye think the reason is that the off-licences have to close on the dot at 10 pm? I mean, ye see no problem with the closure hour, you agree with it, so, what's the logic or reason for it? There must be some reason as some of you strongly agree with it. I can't see the reasoning in it at all so I'd like to hear why does the 10 pm closure hour make sense to some of you folks?

I suspect they are just saying it for the sake of it - makes them look really mature and sensible and no-nonsense. And of course, the thanks - think of the thanks!

Maximus Alexander · 17-01-2016 03:19AM

In principle, I think it's a pretty dopey law and I find nanny-state shoite a bit irritating. But in practice it doesn't have a material affect on my life.

buried · 17-01-2016 03:24AM

K-9 wrote: »

It isn't something I feel strongly about and I have been inconvenienced by it on the past. The same opening hours as pubs would make sense.

I just don't see why people get bothered by it, rants about Government and publicans. As I said before, off licences are everywhere these days so that balances the hours for me.

For me, my own business I work at, I'm at my most busiest during the summer, could be working until 10- 11 in the evenings sometimes, as long as there is light and I can be out earning I'm going to be doing it. But then the odd time, off the cuff after a hard day, if I want to get a few beers afterwards and relax past 10pm in the environment I feel most comfortable to relax in, which is my own house with my own music and my own entertainment, I can't because of this ridiculous rule that makes no sense to me. It's a load of absolute unfair horsesh!te really

Off licences and draconian closing times

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