Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Deepsouthwest · 15-01-2016 07:24PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

And isn't that whats happening atm, kowtow?

I think he's lost all dairy farmers at this stage, time to start a "Tillage chit chat" thread Dawg!

Dawggone · 15-01-2016 07:57PM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I think he's lost all dairy farmers at this stage, time to start a "Tillage chit chat" thread Dawg!

The thread would be fairly boring.
General gist would be...why do dairy farmers get money thrown at them?

I'm bored now.

Let's return to navel gazing...

Much better.

Bullocks · 15-01-2016 08:01PM

Dawggone wrote: »

The thread would be fairly boring.
General gist would be...why do dairy farmers get money thrown at them?

I'm bored now.

Let's return to navel gazing...

Much better.

Depends on whose navel ! Like I'd have no interest in yours but certain navels are grand to gaze at

RightTurnClyde · 15-01-2016 08:12PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Protein payment is from Bruxelles.

Sure what would a tillage farmer want...
Sheds, dryers, weighbridge etc just like dairy...

This has an Orwellian slant..."Two legs good, four legs bad". What's the chance that George Orwell was a dairy farmer?

Dawg, I suppose it would be hard for Coveney to justify paying supports to the tillage sector where the farmer has to work, what, 10 maybe 12 days in the year. That's assuming sitting in an air conned cab watching the rtk steer the tractor up and down the field is considered "work".
Discuss.

:):):);)

Deepsouthwest · 15-01-2016 08:16PM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Dawg, I suppose it would be hard for Coveney to justify paying supports to the tillage sector where the farmer has to work, what, 10 maybe 12 days in the year. That's assuming sitting in an air conned cab watching the rtk steer the tractor up and down the field is considered "work".
Discuss
I think a volcano has just erupted somewhere in France!

Dawggone · 15-01-2016 08:17PM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Dawg, I suppose it would be hard for Coveney to justify paying supports to the tillage sector where the farmer has to work, what, 10 maybe 12 days in the year. That's assuming sitting in an air conned cab watching the rtk steer the tractor up and down the field is considered "work".
Discuss.

:):):);)

Lmao!

No cabs on tractors, no RTK.

Waiting on the grants....

Buford T. Justice XIX · 15-01-2016 08:36PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Lmao!

No cabs on tractors, no RTK.

Waiting on the grants....

Sure you're milking cows, you'll get the grant for the cab no bother at all;)

Dawggone · 15-01-2016 08:49PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Sure you're milking cows, you'll get the grant for the cab no bother at all;)

It's the power steering I'm after.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 15-01-2016 09:18PM

Dawggone wrote: »

It's the power steering I'm after.

I know where there is one on a new JD (well, new 8 years ago) sitting in a shed waiting for god knows what to happen, complete auto steer unit.

darragh_haven · 15-01-2016 09:25PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Arbitrage.

Uncle of mine was saying recently that there will be no difference between farming sectors. Sooner than later would be nice...

Even if this come to pass, the tendency to front load grants & etc to the dairy industry will always give Dairying a fighting advantage over other farming types in Ireland. This is mainly due to the powers that be see dairying as the cash cow for the economy (in a farming perspective ) and tillage, Beef, contract rearing etc being subservient industries just there to deal with the side effects of dairy expansion.

While I don't agree with dairying getting preference in a lot of grant aid. It is probably the best course for the rural communities

stretch film · 15-01-2016 10:08PM

The dept are not the only ones with the blinkers on . The country's biggest coop are using the tillage man's money to subsidise milk price don't forget , with a token gesture sent their way.

C0N0R · 15-01-2016 10:56PM

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

He's irrigating his max allowance through pivot and rotarainer.

Went down last night to see if I could spot anything to help but he's got no grass at all.

Av cover 299 available and growing 42Kgdm per ha with demand at 75kg or so. He's feeding 8kg per day of supplement but even at that his grass won't be making any headway.

Think he better call it and go 16hr milking next week if the grass wedge doesn't improve...which it won't.

Crazy since up here in dryland country I'm pushing for 12ha of silage to be taken out on platform since we have Av cover of over 800 available still staying to get down to a 25 day round and can't do it and that's feeding grass only.

Just shows you irrigation, scale, diet feeders and fancy sheds don't mean much if you're not solid on grass management at this scale

I'll throw my two cents in here, I would be far from an expert grass manager but what I would be thinking is he needs to go in heavy with the supplement and extend his round way out. If he stays on a 21 day round he's going to be going into 2382 covers which isn't ideal in my eyes. You need grass to grow grass, if he extends out to a 33 day round he will probably increase his growth rates and be going into heavier covers, possibly 3100 if he hits 50 g/r. He is going to have to feed loads of supplement no matter what happens so may as well feed more short term that less but long term. It's only mid January, get it corrected now and the rest of his season will be ok, screw it up for another month and he's going downhill rappidly. When was his most recent feet application?? Lash on urea like there is no tomorrow. What's his stocking rate?? If his demand is normally 75 and he's feeding 18kg/dm he is stocked at 4. Throwing in 8kg silage a cow reduces demand to 40 which is in line with growth, just needs to get pre grazing covers up. What will 16 hour milking reduce demand by? What's current cow yield? Type of cow?? Percentage heifers?

I could be completely wrong with my advise, as said I'm far from an expert and if someone would like to point out the flaws in my suggestion by all means go ahead, I might learn from it too!

Edit see stocking rate is 3.7 and demand is 75? 20kg/cow would be good going unless there massive cows

Mehaffey1 · 15-01-2016 11:16PM

C0N0R wrote: »

I'll throw my two cents in here, I would be far from an expert grass manager but what I would be thinking is he needs to go in heavy with the supplement and extend his round way out. If he stays on a 21 day round he's going to be going into 2382 covers which isn't ideal in my eyes. You need grass to grow grass, if he extends out to a 33 day round he will probably increase his growth rates and be going into heavier covers, possibly 3100 if he hits 50 g/r. He is going to have to feed loads of supplement no matter what happens so may as well feed more short term that less but long term. It's only mid January, get it corrected now and the rest of his season will be ok, screw it up for another month and he's going downhill rappidly. When was his most recent feet application?? Lash on urea like there is no tomorrow. What's his stocking rate?? If his demand is normally 75 and he's feeding 18kg/dm he is stocked at 4. Throwing in 8kg silage a cow reduces demand to 40 which is in line with growth, just needs to get pre grazing covers up. What will 16 hour milking reduce demand by? What's current cow yield? Type of cow?? Percentage heifers?

I could be completely wrong with my advise, as said I'm far from an expert and if someone would like to point out the flaws in my suggestion by all means go ahead, I might learn from it too!

Edit see stocking rate is 3.7 and demand is 75? 20kg/cow would be good going unless there massive cows

My facts and figures may be slightly out so don't take them as gospel. After tonight he will have a pre grazing cover of 2300 and from there its down all the way to 1425 on his feed wedge so cows are getting hungry, av pasture cover 1799. His fert is applied by contractor with a yearly plan so he is maxed out there. He is going hard and heavy with supplement 2x1kg per day grain in shed feed and a mix of silage,PKE and alkalige which adds to 6kg through diet wagon.

He was offering 21kg per day previously, very big built high producing (usually) friesian. He has since dialled that back to 19kg.

I have no facts on 16hr milking to hand but his last pick up analysis gave 1.6kgMS per cow. I would expect to see it level out at 1.45 or more after a few days.

Really think the bottom has fell out of it and he won't recover grass without either cutting back from 2ad milking, I had put the idea of first year calvers/lames and low producers going on 1ad

C0N0R · 15-01-2016 11:22PM

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

My facts and figures may be slightly out so don't take them as gospel. After tonight he will have a pre grazing cover of 2300 and from there its down all the way to 1425 on his feed wedge so cows are getting hungry, av pasture cover 1799. His fert is applied by contractor with a yearly plan so he is maxed out there. He is going hard and heavy with supplement 2x1kg per day grain in shed feed and a mix of silage,PKE and alkalige which adds to 6kg through diet wagon.

He was offering 21kg per day previously, very big built high producing (usually) friesian. He has since dialled that back to 19kg.

I have no facts on 16hr milking to hand but his last pick up analysis gave 1.6kgMS per cow. I would expect to see it level out at 1.45 or more after a few days.

Really think the bottom has fell out of it and he won't recover grass without either cutting back from 2ad milking, I had put the idea of first year calvers/lames and low producers going on 1ad

He needs to increase the pre grazing cover and the only way he can do that is increase round length and the only way he can do that is increase supplement. If fert hasn't gone on recently he needs to put more on regardless of extra cost, fert is the cheapest form of feed. Can he not double grain fed in shed? 1kg isn't much at all.

Putting stock on oad is grand, it's reduces demand slightly but it doesn't solve the problem. Low producers will dry up if put on oad now.

Milked out · 15-01-2016 11:23PM

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

My facts and figures may be slightly out so don't take them as gospel. After tonight he will have a pre grazing cover of 2300 and from there its down all the way to 1425 on his feed wedge so cows are getting hungry, av pasture cover 1799. His fert is applied by contractor with a yearly plan so he is maxed out there. He is going hard and heavy with supplement 2x1kg per day grain in shed feed and a mix of silage,PKE and alkalige which adds to 6kg through diet wagon.

He was offering 21kg per day previously, very big built high producing (usually) friesian. He has since dialled that back to 19kg.

I have no facts on 16hr milking to hand but his last pick up analysis gave 1.6kgMS per cow. I would expect to see it level out at 1.45 or more after a few days.

Really think the bottom has fell out of it and he won't recover grass without either cutting back from 2ad milking, I had put the idea of first year calvers/lames and low producers going on 1ad

Has he facilities to feed in doors full time?. Perhaps split herd put highest yielding inside on lucerne and maize they should balance each other well with little newd for mòre protein and leave heifers lame low yielders etc out on grass untill farm can build enough cover. Agree with Conor needs to supplement hard and if buffer feeding intakes are likely to be up so would target the 20kgdm rather than dropping it or they will always be hungry and lose condition. Is he limited in feed stock other than grass?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 15-01-2016 11:29PM

darragh_haven wrote: »

Even if this come to pass, the tendency to front load grants & etc to the dairy industry will always give Dairying a fighting advantage over other farming types in Ireland. This is mainly due to the powers that be see dairying as the cash cow for the economy (in a farming perspective ) and tillage, Beef, contract rearing etc being subservient industries just there to deal with the side effects of dairy expansion.

While I don't agree with dairying getting preference in a lot of grant aid. It is probably the best course for the rural communities

It will all be OK, just seen the Dept expecting approval for a tillage tams by the end of March in the Journal.

If the grant is due in December, will we get a headline of 'Why are tillage farmers given a Christmas bonus?' I wonder?

Mehaffey1 · 15-01-2016 11:37PM

C0N0R wrote: »

He needs to increase the pre grazing cover and the only way he can do that is increase round length and the only way he can do that is increase supplement. If fert hasn't gone on recently he needs to put more on regardless of extra cost, fert is the cheapest form of feed. Can he not double grain fed in shed? 1kg isn't much at all.

Putting stock on oad is grand, it's reduces demand slightly but it doesn't solve the problem. Low producers will dry up if put on oad now.

I haven't seen his fert plan but I would say he's already pumping out 70kg urea per ha. He's been advised that he can bump up to 2kg grain x twice a day if cows don't react well to the increase in supplement.

The problem is his sharemilker plus farm owner will put production in front of all other considerations which is very foolish. The cows have lost a considerable amount of condition from the start of mating ( last two months). That's NZ friesians for you too.

He has no facilities to feed inside or on his feed pad which is out of action for four weeks for repairs to the rubber mats. His farm owner wants to regrass a paddock on the platform and I suggested he could sacrifice that and use it as a make shift feedpad for small herd. He has plenty of feed on hand so I agree Conor that if he doesn't feed it now then it's downhill all the way to may.

C0N0R · 15-01-2016 11:42PM

Forget regrassing, feed tight to the fence lines, feed in any dry land corners but don't go near reseeding until he solves the problem. He need every available bit of ground that's productive to solve problem. I'm sure the share milked isn't foolish enough to see he has a problem on his hands either, it's simple feed the cows or they won't feed you, I'd be concerned with cows losing condition while been offered 20kg as well, that really shouldn't be happening.

jaymla627 · 15-01-2016 11:43PM

Milked out wrote: »

Has he facilities to feed in doors full time?. Perhaps split herd put highest yielding inside on lucerne and maize they should balance each other well with little newd for mòre protein and leave heifers lame low yielders etc out on grass untill farm can build enough cover. Agree with Conor needs to supplement hard and if buffer feeding intakes are likely to be up so would target the 20kgdm rather than dropping it or they will always be hungry and lose condition. Is he limited in feed stock other than grass?

Probably has the owner/company bosses that own the farm breathing down his neck about maintaining a certain level of production at all costs and f**k the cows, lots of options dry off low yielders/1st lactation animals, cull the bottom 10% of herd and empties straight away, and obviously up feed in the parlour....
I'd safely say what's been used to buffer the cows now is more then likely ment for as winter feed so that's another clusterf**k coming down the tracks

Mehaffey1 · 15-01-2016 11:51PM

Farm owner still dreaming in 8 dollar payout days and seems quite nasty about why the cows aren't performing. Sharemilker is away on holiday that's why they didn't see it coming. Problem happened because my friend was including 80ha of cut and carry run off into farm walk since November when he took over doing it.

Mehaffey1 · 15-01-2016 11:54PM

They have already cut cow numbers from 1200 due to low payout and can't afford to cull more. Dry off the 1St Years and low producers would be next step if cover can't improve

Milked out · 15-01-2016 11:54PM

C0N0R wrote: »

Forget regrassing, feed tight to the fence lines, feed in any dry land corners but don't go near reseeding until he solves the problem. He need every available bit of ground that's productive to solve problem. I'm sure the share milked isn't foolish enough to see he has a problem on his hands either, it's simple feed the cows or they won't feed you, I'd be concerned with cows losing condition while been offered 20kg as well, that really shouldn't be happening.

Agree given the range of feeds available losing condition shouldn't be happening. Is there a nutritionist available. Target a 16% p max diet with as much energy as possible. Perhaps test the paddocks for p as well as plant may not be using the n and could have high crude p levels and cause cows to lose condition. Is all winter feed purchased? If cows lose condition won't matter what the boss says rest of years production will be fcuked

jaymla627 · 16-01-2016 12:05AM

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

Farm owner still dreaming in 8 dollar payout days and seems quite nasty about why the cows aren't performing. Sharemilker is away on holiday that's why they didn't see it coming. Problem happened because my friend was including 80ha of cut and carry run off into farm walk since November when he took over doing it.

Have a good bit of expirence of dealing with clowns like that, the funniest example was a herd I was managing where the highly paid consultant insisted on late calvers/empties being Milked on over what was winter in Australia, told him the whole herd needed to be took of the block and grass held up for fresh calvers our come spring the s**t would hit the fan.....
Was totally by-passed, que 3 months later, was left with no grass/downer cows left right and centre and freshly calved cows going into bare paddocks licking clay, all because cash flow needed to be maintained over the winter haha

Mehaffey1 · 16-01-2016 12:06AM

Milked out wrote: »

Agree given the range of feeds available losing condition shouldn't be happening. Is there a nutritionist available. Target a 16% p max diet with as much energy as possible. Perhaps test the paddocks for p as well as plant may not be using the n and could have high crude p levels and cause cows to lose condition. Is all winter feed purchased? If cows lose condition won't matter what the boss says rest of years production will be fcuked

They had huge condition after calving going into mating, talking average NZ score of 5.0+. Will tell him about paddock testing

To be honest, I'm just trying to cushion the blow that they more than likely can't pull this back. They have a farm advisor out every week now, has no sympathy for my friend at all too.

Going to stay at his to give him a hand over the weekend, he's the type of guy who'd work 3am to midnight especially now he feels it's his fault

Mehaffey1 · 16-01-2016 12:11AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Have a good bit of expirence of dealing with clowns like that, the funniest example was a herd I was managing where the highly paid consultant insisted on late calvers/empties being Milked on over what was winter in Australia, told him the whole herd needed to be took of the block and grass held up for fresh calvers our come spring the s**t would hit the fan.....
Was totally by-passed, que 3 months later, was left with no grass/downer cows left right and centre and freshly calved cows going into bare paddocks licking clay, all because cash flow needed to be maintained over the winter haha

These farm advisors seem to only think about this week's production. Don't think they get their head round the fact that every tonne of grass and kg of condition pays for itself and more later into the vat.

Milked out · 16-01-2016 12:24AM

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

They had huge condition after calving going into mating, talking average NZ score of 5.0+. Will tell him about paddock testing

To be honest, I'm just trying to cushion the blow that they more than likely can't pull this back. They have a farm advisor out every week now, has no sympathy for my friend at all too.

Going to stay at his to give him a hand over the weekend, he's the type of guy who'd work 3am to midnight especially now he feels it's his fault

It seems your friend has plenty lads telling him what they want but unwilling to listen to him either. Hard to do but try keep his spirits up when your there. Just reread my post there and should clarify by test the paddocks for p I meant protein in the grass. Our own advisor here would be on about it and has tested grass to be grazed up at 24% p with clients due to fert still being in the plant. And struggling to hold condition at times. Do the coop test the milk for urea over there? That and lactose may help give an indication on diet. As Conor said get the cow right then get the grass right.

C0N0R · 16-01-2016 12:28AM

Fat to protein ratio will also give an indication of energy in the diet. If you dry off cows now it's a bigger disaster because they have to be fed for four more months before winter and they won't be producing anything. Hit good growth and the problem could be solved in four weeks. Just be ruthless now. Grazing 2300 covers cows struggle to get enough feed intakes.

Dawggone · 16-01-2016 06:33AM

darragh_haven wrote: »

Even if this come to pass, the tendency to front load grants & etc to the dairy industry will always give Dairying a fighting advantage over other farming types in Ireland. This is mainly due to the powers that be see dairying as the cash cow for the economy (in a farming perspective ) and tillage, Beef, contract rearing etc being subservient industries just there to deal with the side effects of dairy expansion.

+1000.
Thanks Darragh.

Mind your back! I'm led to believe that there are some extreme dairy fundamentalists down in the deep south west and speaking the truth is not taken to too kindly. So careful how you go!!

I'm off now to practice genuflecting....:):)

Mehaffey1 · 16-01-2016 06:36AM

He's up to 2KgDM grain twice a day now. Will have a look at his milk urea levels but ive no idea what a norm is for his cows. Fat to protein will be easy enough worked with his cows probably eveninf out at. 8

yosemitesam1 · 16-01-2016 11:39AM

Dawggone wrote: »

+1000.
Thanks Darragh.

Mind your back! I'm led to believe that there are some extreme dairy fundamentalists down in the deep south west and speaking the truth is not taken to too kindly. So careful how you go!!

I'm off now to practice genuflecting....:):)

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/department-hopeful-in-eu-approval-of-proposed-new-tams-tillage-scheme-198171/

Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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