Jan and Klodi's Party Bus - part II off topic discussion

CramCycle · 15-01-2016 05:59PM

RobFowl wrote: »

Shure wouldn't we be better off if the Brits were still in charge anyways...

(ducks and gets coat at same time...)

Well the brits would have given us home rule in short order, only for a few members of the rising council got impatient and decided it was better to kill a load of young impressionable men, women and children for their ideals rather than wait two years.

(Rather blunt and inaccurate telling of history but with large doses of the truth).

The differences between the IRB and the French resistance is phenomenal, other than certain tactics used, I would not put them on the same page.

tomasrojo · 15-01-2016 06:08PM

I wouldn't have bet on all things having gone swimmingly in alternative time strands where the Rising didn't happen either.

Which is not to say that I'm deliriously happy with the way things did go.

Chips Lovell · 15-01-2016 06:17PM

I'd prefer to see us celebrating the centenary of the First Dail instead of 1916.

The Rising had virtually no popular mandate and its subsequent incorporation into nationalist mythology has been morally problematic, since it has been used an excuse to legitimise violent campaigns by range of minority terrorist groups from the anti-treaty faction right up to the current crop of "dissident" republicans.

The First Dail on the other hand, the people of Ireland voted overwhelmingly for representatives running on a manifesto of cutting ties with Britain and creating a new state. It might be a commemoration more people could get behind.

tomasrojo · 15-01-2016 06:22PM

At the very least, I'd prefer they dropped the commemorations at Easter and used the actual calendar date of the Rising.

CramCycle · 15-01-2016 06:22PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

I wouldn't have bet on all things having gone swimmingly in alternative time strands where the Rising didn't happen either.

Which is not to say that I'm deliriously happy with the way things did go.

I am certain with my minimal understanding of human nature and certain divides, it would not have went swimmingly but at worst, in my opinion, there would have been a civil war, it would have had a similar number dead and it would have been between different people to an extent.

It would have united a greater % of Ireland population wise, not that that makes it better.

It still would have been horrible, and unlike our current history books were we have painted over some of the atrocities done in the name of an Irish Republic, I think it would have been more open.

I presume by the actions of the English after 1921 in regards to other parts of the empire breaking free, it would realistically have been a fair bit friendlier, with better economic outcomes for Ireland and potentially the support of our neighbours which may have went some way to lowering the number and level of atrocities, but only an opinion and I admit I am no expert.

Harrybelafonte · 15-01-2016 06:24PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

The Rising itself involved around 3,000 people; it began the War of Independence which involved comparably far higher numbers than were in the French Résistance (sorry you object to the acute accent on the word).

Your knowledge of history is poor to say the least. The War of Independence began after the sitting of the First Dáil in 1919 and the Dan Breen directed shooting. 1916 Rising built to that point as did many other events in the history of the country, but it did not "begin" it.

I don't object to the "acute accent", I object to your use of it in this instance. Did they call themselves the "French Résistance", cos I think you may be watching too much "'allo 'allo"

They were either the French Resistance or La Résistance française, don't create your own bsatard version, choose one.

tomasrojo · 15-01-2016 06:26PM

How much popular support did the American Revolution have?

I don't know , but I suspect most insurrections don't start with much popular support, and are carried out by secretive organisations, for obvious reasons.

I suppose I'm trying to say that I don't think the Rising was uniquely undemocratic among insurrections.

Harrybelafonte · 15-01-2016 06:29PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

How much popular support did the American Revolution have?

I don't know , but I suspect most insurrections don't start with much popular support, and are carried out by secretive organisations, for obvious reasons.

I suppose I'm trying to say that I don't think the Rising was uniquely undemocratic among insurrections.

Boston Tea Party was an act of terrorism... ironically.

Qualitymark · 15-01-2016 06:34PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Well the brits would have given us home rule in short order, only for a few members of the rising council got impatient and decided it was better to kill a load of young impressionable men, women and children for their ideals rather than wait two years.

Last thing I'm going to say about this; it's too close to me.

In May 1915 Asquith's Liberal government collapsed in a crisis over the failure to supply enough shells to kill Germans in France and Turks in Gallipoli.

This government had been dependent on the Irish Parliamentary Party, and therefore had passed into law the Government of Ireland Act 1914 (known as the Home Rule Act). This was a version of an Act that had been brought through the parliament many times, and each time voted down by the House of Lords, dominated by the Conservative and Unionist Party.

The law on voting had been changed so that it was impossible for the Lords to repeatedly vote down legislation agreed by the Commons; now the Act went through.

On the outbreak of what was then known as the European War in August 1914 this legislation was delayed until the end of 1914 or the end of the war.

When Asquith's government collapsed in May 1915, he reassembled a temporary coalition, this time dominated by the Conservative and Unionist Party. These unionists were never going to allow Home Rule to pass - they had imported guns from Germany to defend the Union against any British government attempt to impose Home Rule; they had fomented and joined a mutiny of officers in the Curragh to prevent Home Rule. Home Rule was now and forever a dead duck.

tomasrojo · 15-01-2016 06:36PM

CramCycle wrote: »

I presume by the actions of the English after 1921 in regards to other parts of the empire breaking free, it would realistically have been a fair bit friendlier, with better economic outcomes for Ireland and potentially the support of our neighbours which may have went some way to lowering the number and level of atrocities, but only an opinion and I admit I am no expert.

Yeah, it's WAY outside any expertise I can claim to have.

Ireland being an integral part of the UK as well as the first bit of the Empire to seriously make an attempt to leave probably meant it always would have been different.

I vaguely remember The Young Irelanders had a shot at an "open" revolution, where they published details in their newspaper about what they intended to do. Didn't work out very well.

tomasrojo · 15-01-2016 06:39PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

These unionists were never going to allow Home Rule to pass - they had imported guns from Germany to defend the Union against any British government attempt to impose Home Rule

Yes, that's one of the bits I think would have been a problem either way.

brocbrocach · 15-01-2016 06:57PM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Your knowledge of history is poor to say the least. The War of Independence began after the sitting of the First Dáil in 1919 and the Dan Breen directed shooting. 1916 Rising built to that point as did many other events in the history of the country, but it did not "begin" it.

I don't object to the "acute accent", I object to your use of it in this instance. Did they call themselves the "French Résistance", cos I think you may be watching too much "'allo 'allo"

They were either the French Resistance or La Résistance française, don't create your own bsatard version, choose one.

Anyone with any knowledge of history knows that most of it is down to interpretation. I'm afraid you've made a bit of a show of yourself above as it's not outlandish by any means to believe that the War of Independence started in 1916.
Also Seán Treacy and Séamus Robinson are usually regarded as the top men at Soloheadbeg, Breen being a lesser figure at the time.

Qualitymark · 15-01-2016 07:06PM

Could we maybe talk about bicycles? Sorry to have brought all this in.

brocbrocach · 15-01-2016 07:11PM

CramCycle wrote: »

I presume by the actions of the English after 1921 in regards to other parts of the empire breaking free, it would realistically have been a fair bit friendlier, with better economic outcomes for Ireland and potentially the support of our neighbours which may have went some way to lowering the number and level of atrocities, but only an opinion and I admit I am no expert.

I don't know about that. Most of their African and Asian colonies descended into chaos shortly after they left. Your average Arab and Jew in the middle-east wouldn't have great memories of the legacy of empire either...

The undeniable and vile discrimination against Nationalists in the North until they were forced to behave - over FIFTY years after after the Southern uprising - leads me to think that things wouldn't have gone swimmingly whatever happened.
Anyway this is bad territory to get into. All Europeans now etc.

petethedrummer · 15-01-2016 07:12PM

Definitely booking a foreign holiday this Easter.

Harrybelafonte · 15-01-2016 07:27PM

brocbrocach wrote: »

Anyone with any knowledge of history knows that most of it is down to interpretation. I'm afraid you've made a bit of a show of yourself above as it's not outlandish by any means to believe that the War of Independence started in 1916.
Also Seán Treacy and Séamus Robinson are usually regarded as the top men at Soloheadbeg, Breen being a lesser figure at the time.

Clearly they're teaching things differently since I got my degree. I could also interpret the 1867 rebellion as having begun the war of independence. That'd just be inside outlandish as well. As for making a show of myself... that too is open to interpretation.

Anybody know what happened to the Irish women's TP squad. Where they given wrong lap numbers?

eeeee · 15-01-2016 08:42PM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Anybody know what happened to the Irish women's TP squad. Where they given wrong lap numbers?

From this?
http://www.tissottiming.com/File/Download?id=00030D0000021463FFFFFFFFFFFFFF02

Eamonnator · 15-01-2016 08:55PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Could we maybe talk about bicycles? Sorry to have brought all this in.

Well, it is the "off topic" thread"

Harrybelafonte · 15-01-2016 09:00PM

gadetra wrote: »

From this?
http://www.tissottiming.com/File/Download?id=00030D0000021463FFFFFFFFFFFFFF02

I saw a report that they were given the 3km pursuit lap numbers on their first run and had to go again.

RobFowl · 15-01-2016 09:18PM

petethedrummer wrote: »

Definitely booking a foreign holiday this Easter.

Ahead of you

Italy beckons ....

Beasty · 15-01-2016 09:41PM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I saw a report that they were given the 3km pursuit lap numbers on their first run and had to go again.

From here

Brian Nugent said “the commissaires put 12 laps on the board instead of 16 and stopped the team a kilo early. It was very frustrating and it meant we had to restart at the end. After already completing 3kms and having to go again wasn’t really ideal, but there wasn’t any other option at that point.”

Felix English took 4th in the Scratch and then 7th in the Points Race. That may help secure places in the Worlds in London in March

eeeee · 15-01-2016 10:10PM

"Brian Nugent said “the commissaires put 12 laps on the board instead of 16 and stopped the team a kilo early. It was very frustrating and it meant we had to restart at the end. After already completing 3kms and having to go again wasn’t really ideal, but there wasn’t any other option at that point.”

Jesus that's horrific.

Ridiculous at that level too

Beasty · 15-01-2016 10:23PM

gadetra wrote: »

"Brian Nugent said “the commissaires put 12 laps on the board instead of 16 and stopped the team a kilo early. It was very frustrating and it meant we had to restart at the end. After already completing 3kms and having to go again wasn’t really ideal, but there wasn’t any other option at that point.”

Jesus that's horrific.

Ridiculous at that level too

Did I ever tell you about my first World Championships - they made me do an extra lap:p

The really frustrating thing is I was looking at the lap counter, and it seemed to stick at 6. Was thinking it should be 5. Another lap and I'll be half-way there. But it was another 2 before I saw 4 on the board. Normally when that happens the person realises they are out of sync with the lap counter on the other side. In this case though they both got it wrong! Played hell with me mentally for the remainder of the pursuit. Looked up at the clock at the end and could not believe how poor my time was. Was saying to people around me I must have done 9 laps. Then an official came over to me rather sheepishly to tell me they had made a mistake. They gave me the option of going again - not a cat in hell's chance of that! They therefore gave me my 2k time.

Lumen · 16-01-2016 10:39AM

FOOTPAD!

Warning: contains Ingle

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn-ingle-on-a-collision-course-1.2495309

CramCycle · 16-01-2016 11:10AM

Did I see right that the mens team had to restart as well after the timer malfunctioned?

Eamonnator · 16-01-2016 11:18AM

Lumen wrote: »

FOOTPAD!

Warning: contains Ingle

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn-ingle-on-a-collision-course-1.2495309

I don't take The Irish Times. I've never read any of this woman's stuff before.
Does she write s*#te like this often?

OleRodrigo · 16-01-2016 11:35AM

Lumen wrote: »

FOOTPAD!

Warning: contains Ingle

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn-ingle-on-a-collision-course-1.2495309

A shameful double whammy of shame. Any commuter-cam warriors get some footage?

:P

Beasty · 16-01-2016 11:45AM

CramCycle wrote: »

Did I see right that the mens team had to restart as well after the timer malfunctioned?

They definitely had a disadvantage - possibly more down to the fact Felix English and Eoin Mullen are the only Irish guys out there and you need 3 to cross the line in the pursuit....

It became clear after the Euros they had virtually no chance of qualifying for Rio. They went to the World Cup event in Cali but did not enter the Cambridge or HK events

Lumen · 16-01-2016 01:59PM

Eamonnator wrote: »

I don't take The Irish Times. I've never read any of this woman's stuff before.
Does she write s*#te like this often?

No. It's usually much worse.

traprunner · 16-01-2016 02:01PM

I can't believe people get paid to write crap like that. I'm thinking that I should see if my parents have any of my old school copies in their attic. I reckon 'My News. Today is Saturday. It so a cold day.' would earn me a fortune.

Jan and Klodi's Party Bus - part II **off topic discussion**

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Jan and Klodi's Party Bus - part II off topic discussion