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Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

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  • #902
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/making-a-murderer-is-the-new-hot-show-from-netflix

    11:48. Dean Strang says there was small spatters on the styrofoam case that could only have come when a syringe was extracted.

    And they never, ever explained why the evidence seals were opened. Had it been done for a viable reason there would have been a chain of evidence chit in there explaining, or at least noting who'd opened it and resealed it.


  • #903
    Midnight Sundance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Midnight Sundance


    I know this is totally on a different wave length to where this thread has been going but has anyone noticed the cute reporter with the silver hair that's in the room with all the journalists after every day of the trial. :)
    I'm also unsure as to whether avert did or didn't do the murder but the whole investigation was flawed so there's always going to be doubt.
    I do wonder though, she was supposedly raped , shot, her hair cut off her and then burned. Avery had the skill of a forensics scientist at cleaning up every scrap of dna evidence from this, YET he left her car on his land WITH his blood clearly smeared in it, a key beside his bed and burned her next to his house.
    That does not make sense to me at all. How that doesn't sing of set up I do not know.


  • #904
    bryangiggsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    anna080 wrote: »
    This thread has been over all of those specifics a million times. Read back and enlighten yourself.

    I wont thanks. Have not got time to read 70 pages of posts and figured some others who have just finished the series would not have either.


  • #905
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    So what then ?

    The police moved her body (or her allready burnt remains) to the site to frame him ?

    Be easier to plant a gun on him and have him shot and claim he shot at an officer ...

    These policemen do seem dodgy - but occams razor and all ..


  • #906
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,072 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    cowboyBuilder wrote: »
    So what then ?

    The police moved her body (or her allready burnt remains) to the site to frame him ?

    Be easier to plant a gun on him and have him shot and claim he shot at an officer ...

    These policemen do seem dodgy - but occams razor and all ..

    Yup the most simplest answer is usually the right answer, the more you have to explain what you think happened the further from the truth it is. If you apply Occams Razor to this case you would go with Avery murdered and burnt Theresa's body on his land, he had the means, motive and opportunity to do it. When you start bringing in the police or nephews and brother in laws then you need to start guessing how they did it which leads to question after question about means, motive and opportunity.


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  • #907
    8-10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,791 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Ageyev wrote: »
    I've been having blood taken for testing for most of my life over the course of two decades. Never seen any phlebotomist pierce a vial with a needle like you suggest.

    There's been a few posts over on Reddit about it, e.g:
    I see a lot of questions about this. I work for Labcorp as a phlebotomist. I draw blood every day; I'm very knowledgeable about the tubes and what they contain, etc.
    A vacuum system contains a dual-needle system. There is a needle on either side of the hub. The "uncovered" needle punctures the vein. The "covered" needle punctures the tube, allowing the blood to flow into it. Yes, there will be a puncture hole in the top of the tube

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/40ihhg/allow_me_to_clear_up_the_blood_vial_thing_if_i_may/

    Here's another - https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3xuic2/addressing_the_hole_in_the_blood_vial_and/

    I haven't seen it myself either but I don't see why people would create a lie about this


  • #908
    Trigger
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Yup the most simplest answer is usually the right answer, the more you have to explain what you think happened the further from the truth it is. If you apply Occams Razor to this case you would go with Avery murdered and burnt Theresa's body on his land, he had the means, motive and opportunity to do it. When you start bringing in the police or nephews and brother in laws then you need to start guessing how they did it which leads to question after question about means, motive and opportunity.

    What motive would that be?

    Surely his brothers would have the near exact same means and opportunity.

    You need to explore every avenue in an investigation like this, that means that you need to explore possibilities that others were involved. You can only determine means motive and opportunities for them if you investigate these parties. That wasn't done in this case cause it was zoned in on SA. That's not to say that SA is innocent, but the investigation was focused solely on him from the start right to the finish.

    You can't convict a person cause you think he might have done it. You need to be certain beyond reasonable doubt that he did. That's where the American Justice system fails. Prosecutors search for a conviction and not the truth.

    Moderator: Forum Games, Conspiracy Theories



  • #909
    Jen44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭Jen44


    i dont have time to read back over this whole thread but does anyone else think she commit suicide?? That video of her talking about if she dies and how much she loves everyone is a little suspicious to me


  • #910
    8-10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,791 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    astradave wrote: »
    What motive would that be?

    Surely his brothers would have the near exact same means and opportunity.

    You need to explore every avenue in an investigation like this, that means that you need to explore possibilities that others were involved. You can only determine means motive and opportunities for them if you investigate these parties. That wasn't done in this case cause it was zoned in on SA. That's not to say that SA is innocent, but the investigation was focused solely on him from the start right to the finish.

    You can't convict a person cause you think he might have done it. You need to be certain beyond reasonable doubt that he did. That's where the American Justice system fails. Prosecutors search for a conviction and not the truth.

    Ken Kratz wrote:
    Reasonable doubt is for innocent people

    :rolleyes:


  • #911
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,072 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    astradave wrote: »
    What motive would that be?

    Surely his brothers would have the near exact same means and opportunity.

    You need to explore every avenue in an investigation like this, that means that you need to explore possibilities that others were involved. You can only determine means motive and opportunities for them if you investigate these parties. That wasn't done in this case cause it was zoned in on SA. That's not to say that SA is innocent, but the investigation was focused solely on him from the start right to the finish.

    You can't convict a person cause you think he might have done it. You need to be certain beyond reasonable doubt that he did. That's where the American Justice system fails. Prosecutors search for a conviction and not the truth.

    To rape and murder Theresa.


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  • #912
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    This made me chuckle !

    http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/01/14/gardai-bring-in-lenk-colburn-to-help-with-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-case/

    :D


  • #913
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    To rape and murder Theresa.

    That would be the charge not the motive :rolleyes:


  • #914
    Trigger
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    To rape and murder Theresa.

    What is his motive to rape and murder Theresa? As said above this would be the charge not the motive

    Moderator: Forum Games, Conspiracy Theories



  • #915
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Midnight Sundance wrote: »
    I know this is totally on a different wave length to where this thread has been going but has anyone noticed the cute reporter with the silver hair that's in the room with all the journalists after every day of the trial. :)


    That's Aaron Keller. He ranks at No.2 on the list of 10 Most Attractive People in Making A Murderer!


    http://brobible.com/entertainment/article/making-a-murderer-most-attractive-people/


  • #916
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    The female reporter was a hottie too!


  • #917
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,072 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    astradave wrote: »
    What is his motive to rape and murder Theresa? As said above this would be the charge not the motive

    He had become infatuated with her, was constantly calling her but hiding his number. She had visited him a few times but he freaked her out so she didn't want anything to do with him anymore. He then rang auto trader and requested Theresa to come out to his land but used his sisters name, she saw the sisters name and decided to go. Basically the motive is he was infatuated with her, probably tried it on or just took her by force, she spurned him so he murdered her.


  • #918
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    I don't think we will ever get the truth in this case. To many people involved that have a lot to lose. American justice system seems messed up. How you are able to present your case to the media pre trial and then expect to get an impartial jury is beyond me. The press conference's after the days proceedings it strange as well.

    American society is media obsessed and a lot of this trial is played out through the media. Brendan's lawyer at the start was loving the attention and was more interested in doing interviews with the media than in providing a proper service for his client. If you are poor in the usa you have a much less chance of getting a fair trial. Avery had the funds to pay for his lawyers Brendan didn't and ended up with that smiling slime ball.

    Only way i see things coming out is someone with a conscience coming for or some new piece of evidence. Hard to see us every knowing what went on but safe to say there was some shady stuff going on it this case. Anyone looking for a good watch conviction with Hilary Swank is excellent. Police corruption at it's very finest.


  • #919
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,232 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    There are an awful lot of cases in the USA where people have been freed after being wrongly convicted based on police bias,planting evidence,false testimony,blatant lies by people in power,

    It's not beyond the realms of possibilities that this is another,this one looks like a blatant framing, he may have done it but he may not too.


  • #920
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    He had become infatuated with her, was constantly calling her but hiding his number. She had visited him a few times but he freaked her out so she didn't want anything to do with him anymore. He then rang auto trader and requested Theresa to come out to his land but used his sisters name, she saw the sisters name and decided to go. Basically the motive is he was infatuated with her, probably tried it on or just took her by force, she spurned him so he murdered her.

    I don't believe that. If she was as afraid as you're making out she would have declined to go near the place or brought someone with her.


  • #921
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,072 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    anna080 wrote: »
    I don't believe that. If she was as afraid as you're making out she would have declined to go near the place or brought someone with her.

    Don't believe it i don't care, i'd love to hear your explanation to what happened. It was her job to take photos of second hand cars for sale, and that state is full of nutballs selling cars so she would have been to a lot of shady areas.


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  • #922
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Don't believe it i don't care, i'd love to hear your explanation to what happened. It was her job to take photos of second hand cars for sale, and that state is full of nutballs selling cars so she would have been to a lot of shady areas.

    No need to be so hostile. I think she went there knowing full well where she was going, she wasn't afraid and she didn't feel threatened. So what if Steven asked for her to come? Does that make him a murderer? Maybe he thought she was nice, maybe she gave him the time of day? Maybe he liked her work? If I'm about to murder someone and try to get away with it I'm not going to ring their work place and ask for them to send her on over. I'm simply saying your theory that she was afraid of him is unbelievable and improbable,and probably why it was left out of the documentary in the first place.


  • #923
    Kunkka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    marklazarcovic wrote: »
    There are an awful lot of cases in the USA where people have been freed after being wrongly convicted based on police bias,planting evidence,false testimony,blatant lies by people in power,

    It's not beyond the realms of possibilities that this is another,this one looks like a blatant framing, he may have done it but he may not too.

    Exactly this.

    Was Avery a bad person by normal standards? Probably from what we know that is true. Let's not kid ourselves.

    Did the police think he was scum and convinced themselves he done both crimes? Yes I definitely think so. They wanted a conviction and they obviously planted evidence to be sure they got it. That's why the documentary is so shocking.

    I personally don't think he killed her but I find it hard to feel sorry for him from the proven facts we have about him. He wasn't a good guy. While watching the documentary I had much more empathy for Brendan. He was a vulnerable child and they completely took advantage of him. It was a ****ing disgrace. I hope Kelly and his original attorney hate themselves the rest of their lives.


  • #924
    txt_mess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭txt_mess


    Only watched the first 7 episodes and yeh I figured the documentary was heavily on one side , still not sure how guilty or innocent he is.

    I will say the only thing that I think is obvious is a very poor (sometimes dodgy) investigation by the police and a court system that doesn't seem to acknowledge that media could have swayed jurors prior to the trial.

    Not sure where they go from here retrial appears too late and too biased at this stage and a release of Avery will still leave a cloud of doubt.


  • #925
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    txt_mess wrote: »
    Not sure where they go from here retrial appears too late and too biased at this stage and a release of Avery will still leave a cloud of doubt.

    Isn't that the point? If there's doubt - as there certainly is - Avery's entitled to the benefit of it.

    That was the position taken by the film makers in a recent interview with Stephen Colbert. He asked if they thought Avery was guilty. They answered that the state hadn't proved he was guilty. I'd agree.


  • #926
    JaCrispy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭JaCrispy


    astradave wrote: »
    What is his motive to rape and murder Theresa? As said above this would be the charge not the motive

    What's the motive? Twisted sexual gratification obviously.


  • #927
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    bryangiggsy wrote: »
    I wont thanks. Have not got time to read 70 pages of posts and figured some others who have just finished the series would not have either.


    So you've time to watch 10 hours of a TV show *and* read a few blogs about the case, but not enough to check back a few pages to see if your link had already been posted or if the topics had been covered before throwing your two cents into a discussion you opted to join? Huh.


  • #928
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Jen44 wrote: »
    i dont have time to read back over this whole thread but does anyone else think she commit suicide?? That video of her talking about if she dies and how much she loves everyone is a little suspicious to me

    I believe that it was for a school project.
    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Don't believe it i don't care, i'd love to hear your explanation to what happened. It was her job to take photos of second hand cars for sale, and that state is full of nutballs selling cars so she would have been to a lot of shady areas.

    Post #901, I already directly quoted what was supposed to be the evidence that he was obsessed and that she was afraid of him. What Krantz said that evidence was and what it actually was, directly from the mouths of her boss and the receptionist, are two different things. It was heard but disallowed in court and so was never presented to the jury. Krantz has blown a few small observations out of all proportion. None of that is evidence of guilt, it onlys serves to cement Avery as more of a monster in the minds of the impressionable.

    You appear to be deliberately ignoring that which doesn't suit your narrative, TipsyMcKrantz


  • #929
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    JaCrispy wrote: »
    What's the motive? Twisted sexual gratification obviously.

    So where were you that day? You could easily be a suspect if that's what you figure a motive to be.


  • #930
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    anna080 wrote: »
    The female reporter was a hottie too!


    She was No1 on the list! I loved the quizzical faces she pulled at Kratz when he was spouting his yarn.


    resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.cdninstagram.com%2Fhphotos-xtf1%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fs320x320%2Fe35%2F1170331_756291747847488_1275827188_n.jpg&width=810


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  • #931
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Omackeral wrote: »
    She was No1 on the list! I loved the quizzical faces she pulled at Kratz when he was spouting his yarn.


    resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.cdninstagram.com%2Fhphotos-xtf1%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fs320x320%2Fe35%2F1170331_756291747847488_1275827188_n.jpg&width=810


    True but I got the impression she was pro prosecution


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