Driving behind a Funeral etiquette

haveringchick wrote: »

Kiwi Irish people suffer similar culture shock when they experience death and funeral rites abroad, in particular in the UK where many millions of Irish live.
Irish people are equally horrified at the sometimes almost 3 weeks that can lapse between a death and a funeral in the UK
They are horrified at how neighbours and work colleagues appear to ignore the fact that your cherished loved one has died,
They are most horrified at the low attendance at the actual service and the what appears to us to be a cold standoffishness even among family members never mind outsiders
Here it's considered very peculiar if you are not crying and gasping for breath and clutching wildly at the same cousin you slapped across the face on New Years Night for making a pass at your husband
In the UL some reserved quiet sobbing is just about tolerated, but that it
What's proper order in NZ?

Very similar to what you described of UK funerals. Private affair, family and friends. The only time you would attend a funeral of someone you didn't properly know (more than acquaintance), is if the deceased was a sibling, parent or grandparent of a very close friend, and so you would be going to support them.

If a work colleague lost a family member (unless you are good enough friends with the colleague to spend time with them outside work), you would not attend the funeral. You would have a collection and buy flowers for the colleague and maybe buy a personal sympathy card yourself, but not attend the funeral. I guess culturally we consider it intrusive and somewhat rude to intrude or impose ourselves on others when they are grieving (I'm not sure if this is conscious or subconscious), I never thought about it until OH's uncles funeral when I felt horrified at how intrusive people seemed to be with his family.

Funerals, cremations or burials would be at least a week after the death. As you said it could be up to three weeks, particularly if there are family who need to come from overseas. If I died tomorrow, my family actually wouldn't have time to reach Ireland before my funeral, if it were to be done in the usual Irish timeframe (which I've made OH promise me it won't be). You simply cannot organise flights and get from NZ to Ireland within 48 hours. Personally I much prefer the idea of the family having time to spend together to try and adjust to the death and to plan a funeral that the person would have wanted. I remember after OH's uncle died, at a time when I just wanted to spend time being with family and supporting those who needed it, I was rushing around a shopping centre trying to find funeral appropriate clothes for Little Kiwi 24 hours after the death. It was just horrible.

Viewings of the dead would always be private. Family/best friends, certainly not neighbours and work colleagues of cousins. I remember I almost burst out laughing when some old biddy (casual acquaintance that would know them no better than saying hello in passing on the street) came in to view OH's uncle, went right up to the coffin and remarked to my FIL "Doesn't he look well". It was just surreal.

I'd say you guys would get a massive culture shock in NZ too and find the way we do death very strange, it is very different, but on saying that an Irish style funeral could easily be accommodated in NZ and I'm sure they probably are (although I don't know about the time frame). We have a real mix of cultures within the country and each will have their own ways. The traditional Maori and Pacific Island way of doing funerals is a several day affair, and closer to an Irish style funeral. Our preferences are all to do with how we have been brought up/what we are used to obviously, but I have made OH promise me that if I die here, I get a NZ style funeral.

sup_dude wrote: »

Your posts are coming across so pleasant... so now because people don't realise other people's idea of manners, they're knobs. Bit hypocritical, no?

In fairness manners are culturally relative, to me staring at mourning people, attending funerals when you don't know the deceased or the family, going to visit and impose yourself upon grieving relatives who you don't know well at their most difficult moment, or going to view the corpse of a person who you didn't know beyond a casual, passing hello, is not behaviour that scores points for good manners. I actually think however that some colleagues of mine who have lost family members possibly think I have bad manners, as I didn't attend the funeral, because to me doing so would have been bad manners, before I got the hang of how it seems to work here. I still would never go to the house or go to view the deceased, but I might now attend the funeral, since it seems to be expected here.

smash wrote: »

Why would you though? There's been plenty of times I've never attended a funeral because I didn't know the person. Even when it was expected!

I said might. I certainly wouldn't always. If it was a colleague who I got on well with and spent a lot of time with at work I might go. It hasn't happened since I became aware that funeral going thresholds are much lower here than back home. I don't know if I would when it came down to it, to be honest it would feel quite uncomfortable I think. It might be preferable to being thought to be rude and uncaring and easier than attempting to explain the cultural difference in death etiquette though.

kylith wrote: »

I wouldn't attend the funeral of a colleague's relative either, unless they were a good friend of mine. Going to the funeral of someone you don't know would be crass and would smack of being either a looky-lou or after a free meal.

Maybe all these funeral customs we are discussing are more particular to rural areas and small towns? I have nothing to compare as have only lived in small town since we've been in Ireland.

I can't really imagine people traipsing through Dublin city centre after a hearse.

sup_dude wrote: »

I would go to a wake of a friend's relative if they were close but I wouldn't be going for the deceased, I'd be going to make sure the friend was coping okay, had enough to eat etc.

Yeah me too and that is all! If you are not mutually close enough for you to be worried, and for them to want/need your support, you don't go in my book.

As for the stopping thing, I would remain behind while driving, but no way would I stop and gawp at a funeral passing if I were walking down the street. Nor would I stop if coming from opposite direction, but I would slow down for the safety of those walking on the road.

haveringchick wrote: »

This is it kiwi it's totally different in Dublin. I couldn't believe it when my MIL died in Dublin , Lord have mercy on her sweet kind soul.
First of all no funerals on Sunday and BH! What's all that about?
The Undertaker brought her back to the house on the Sunday morning (to be waked) buffered off and didn't come back till Tuesday (Monday was a Public holiday)!
I was outraged!
Here, the Undertaker more or less moves in with you during the wake and takes care(undertakes!) of every little thing
And only some of the neighbors came into the house, and they weren't really offered tea at all.
I said nothing, but I was shocked

Whose is supposed to make tea for these neighbours, acquaintances and random rubberneckers and clean up after they go? The family who have just lost a person they dearly love? They can all feck off with their tea!

haveringchick wrote: »

If someone hands you something and you don't say thank you , you're a knob
If you ask the waitress to bring more bread in the restaurant and you don't say please, you're a knob
If your young and fit and your sitting in a seat on a bus and an old person gets on and has to stand as the seats are all occupied, and you don't get up and offer your seat, you're a big knob
Do you agree or not?

sup_dude wrote: »

The first two show appreciation as someone is doing something for you. The third is because you are better able to stand. All of these make sense and can be explained why they are manners.

Also I imagine that the above described mannerly behaviour is not as culturally specific as funeral customs. These would be considered polite, considerate behaviour in most, if not all cultures. This is clearly not the case with the funeral customs we have been discussing, as some of what is considered appropriate funeral etiquette here would be considered odd at home, and some, like rocking up to the house of a newly bereaved family you don't know well, expecting to be served tea and cakes, would be considered rude and inappropriate.

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, that happened. /s

It did I'm afraid,I guess you've never been to Enniscorthy? We've quite the population of that minority.
It's odd because the older ones tend to be very respectful when it comes to things like funerals.

I'm not sure what is the purpose of walking down the middle of the road after the hearse. It seems crass, almost like a St Patrick's day or Christmas parade. I'm not very comfortable with grief and loss being turned into a public parade or show.

It was suggested to me by a relative at OH's uncle's funeral that Little Kiwi should read out a prayer in the church. I thought that would be totally inappropriate and refused to allow it. To me it seemed that the whole idea was because he is small and cute, so therefore should be put on display like a performing monkey for the entertainment of the old biddy professional funeral attendees, to give them something to 'awwww isn't he cute' over. It would be over my own dead body that my upset 7 year old would be used as a public spectacle at a relatives funeral.

Kiwi, I guarantee that it was unlikely to be to put him on show; for the older generation there would be a lot of honour in being chosen to take part in a relative's funeral and it would be a mark of devotion and respect to do it.

As for the procession, I do think you're right. Though the initial tradition of the slow parade was because no-one would have had a car it became a way of demonstrating wealth to your neighbours to have a horse-drawn hearse with plumes and flowers. As a wag once put it; you'd die of shame if people thought you could only afford a poor funeral. It would also be another show of devotion from the family to put themselves into debt to ensure that the neighbours saw that they loved granddad enough to get the extra-fancy hearse with the extra-black horses with the extra-big plumes on their heads.

While the ostentation has, largely, died out the tradition of the procession remains.