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I hate the pigs mentality

135

Comments

  • #62
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    melissak wrote: »
    Not the Guards themselves. They are just doing their jobs. My issue would be with the people who make these laws and force the officers to waste their time enforcing them. It undermines their position and makes people who are not a danger to society not cooperate with the police. This can seriously hamper them when they are investigating actual crimes imo.


    Come on now, nobody can make people who are not a danger to society not cooperate with the police. That just sounds like an arsehole trying to justify their own stupidity - they don't agree with the law so they think it shouldn't apply to them. I agree that they're unlikely ever to be a danger to society, but they're held up every time as examples of why the law needs to exist in the first place - because some people think they're above the laws that apply to everyone equally.

    There are plenty of laws I disagree with, but I don't think I should be above them, and if I choose to flout the laws in spite of the fact that I know my behaviour is illegal, I really don't have a leg to stand on with regard to my attitude to the Gardaí doing exactly what the State pays them to do.

    Since we're swapping anecdotes though, I've known a good many members of AGS in my time, and I've never had any trouble with them personally, but I don't know if I'd have the patience to let a guy off for selling drugs to me in public, on condition that I didn't meet him again, and then a week later the same guy doesn't recognise me and tries to sell me drugs again!! :pac:

    The Gardaí let people off with a fierce amount (if you live in a rural area, or you're "well known to Gardaí"), they can tend to look the other way as long as you're not taking the piss. They're not usually out busting teenagers chops for possession of a few grams or whatever, they really do have better things to be doing.


  • #63
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Come on now, nobody can make people who are not a danger to society not cooperate with the police. That just sounds like an arsehole trying to justify their own stupidity - they don't agree with the law so they think it shouldn't apply to them. I agree that they're unlikely ever to be a danger to society, but they're held up every time as examples of why the law needs to exist in the first place - because some people think they're above the laws that apply to everyone equally.

    There are plenty of laws I disagree with, but I don't think I should be above them, and if I choose to flout the laws in spite of the fact that I know my behaviour is illegal, I really don't have a leg to stand on with regard to my attitude to the Gardaí doing exactly what the State pays them to do.

    Since we're swapping anecdotes though, I've known a good many members of AGS in my time, and I've never had any trouble with them personally, but I don't know if I'd have the patience to let a guy off for selling drugs to me in public, on condition that I didn't meet him again, and then a week later the same guy doesn't recognise me and tries to sell me drugs again!! :pac:

    The Gardaí let people off with a fierce amount (if you live in a rural area, or you're "well known to Gardaí"), they can tend to look the other way as long as you're not taking the piss. They're not usually out busting teenagers chops for possession of a few grams or whatever, they really do have better things to be doing.
    Most guards I've met are sound. Our local guard is one of the nicest men I've met.
    They can and do bother people over minor possession. It is a huge waste of resources.
    Whether it is reasonable or not for people antagonistic to the Guards not helping with their inquiries is irrelevant. It happens, especially in inner city neighbourhoods and it helps no-one but the actual criminals.


  • #64
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    melissak wrote: »
    Most guards I've met are sound. Our local guard is one of the nicest men I've met.
    They can and do bother people over minor possession. It is a huge waste of resources.
    Whether it is reasonable or not for people antagonistic to the Guards not helping with their inquiries is irrelevant. It happens, especially in inner city neighbourhoods and it helps no-one but the actual criminals.


    Your first point there about the way in which people are expected to cooperate with the Gardaí is relevant to your second point - it's absolutely true that it's more common in inner-city neighbourhoods to have a distrust of Gardaí, because that's the way they've been brought up - to have a deep distrust of all authority. You'll see it in inner-city schools too with children who have no respect for their teachers.

    You're right too that it helps nobody but criminals, and in every inner-city neighbourhood there is always that minority criminal element that gives the rest of the community a bad reputation, which is why as I mentioned earlier in the thread that Gardaí work with the local schools to teach children that they don't have to grow up fearing the Gardaí, that they don't have to become the next generation of criminals and so on.

    They learn that whole "the cops are pigs" mentality from a young age, and it's pretty hard to overcome that distrust when there are patrol cars around the neighbourhood on an almost daily basis that these children grow up in.


  • #65
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Your first point there about the way in which people are expected to cooperate with the Gardaí is relevant to your second point - it's absolutely true that it's more common in inner-city neighbourhoods to have a distrust of Gardaí, because that's the way they've been brought up - to have a deep distrust of all authority. You'll see it in inner-city schools too with children who have no respect for their teachers.

    You're right too that it helps nobody but criminals, and in every inner-city neighbourhood there is always that minority criminal element that gives the rest of the community a bad reputation, which is why as I mentioned earlier in the thread that Gardaí work with the local schools to teach children that they don't have to grow up fearing the Gardaí, that they don't have to become the next generation of criminals and so on.

    They learn that whole "the cops are pigs" mentality from a young age, and it's pretty hard to overcome that distrust when there are patrol cars around the neighbourhood on an almost daily basis that these children grow up in.
    Definitely a factor. Maybe if there were more community programmes involving the Gardai and kids from these areas people would be less polarised?


  • #66
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    melissak wrote: »
    Definitely a factor. Maybe if there were more community programmes involving the Gardai and kids from these areas people would be less polarised?

    There are tons of programmes. There's only so much you can do to influence a kid when they go back to a home where it is all undone.


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  • #67
    Paulzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    There are tons of programmes. There's only so much you can do to influence a kid when they go back to a home where it is all undone.


    Exactly. The time they spend under a good influence such as a good school environment is undone if they are returning to a terrible home environment with adults who set an example that is far from healthy.


  • #68
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Paulzx wrote: »
    Exactly. The time they spend under a good influence such as a good school environment is undone if they are returning to a terrible home environment with adults who set an example that is far from healthy.

    The more pointless laws tend to be applied disproportionately to kids from certain areas though and this is also a factor In anti police feeling. It is really a problem for everyone that needs to be addressed. How many unsolved "gangland" etc murders are there, surely some people who are not dangerous criminals could shed some light on some of these and robberies, assaults if the negative feeling didn't lead to a "tell the fcukers nothing" mentality. It must be very frustrating for guards to want to have good news for victims families but to know people are not helping when they could.


  • #69
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    There are tons of programmes. There's only so much you can do to influence a kid when they go back to a home where it is all undone.

    It is a terrible shame That it is not having any affect '. It's bad now but it is getting worse all the time. Children killing people, beating the heads off each other, addicted to heroin. Children. So sad. Reminds me of that song," how did those tiny fingers become a killers hand"


  • #70
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Would they not be the crusty kind faking an epileptic fit on the road and their mate giving them magical smelling salts to bring them out of it. Claiming medical knowledge... :pac:


  • #71
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,382 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    somebody just saw straight outta compton


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  • #72
    Paulzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    melissak wrote: »
    The more pointless laws tend to be applied disproportionately to kids from certain areas though and this is also a factor In anti police feeling.


    You'll have to explain that one for me


  • #73
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Paulzx wrote: »
    You'll have to explain that one for me

    The fact that people from certain areas and backgrounds get searched etc much more often and they get tougher punishments when caught with a small bit of weed etc. It is sort of understandable, profiling it is called, statistically certain demographics are more likely to yield results from searching, but it causes massive resentment


  • #74
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    melissak wrote: »
    The fact that people from certain areas and backgrounds get searched etc much more often and they get tougher punishments when caught with a small bit of weed etc. It is sort of understandable, profiling it is called, statistically certain demographics are more likely to yield results from searching, but it causes massive resentment

    Is there any more info for that ?

    is it because there might be previous convictions ? or a perceived judicial prejudice ?

    Generally its the same legal representatives in the same courts


  • #75
    Ally Dick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    I don't think they're pigs. I just think they're useless


  • #76
    coolbeans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,199 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    From my own perspective the McBrearty Affair and the subsequent Morris Tribunal really shook my confidence in the 5-O. Anecdotal stories around my home town of little favours and deals between a minority of cops and local bigwigs didn't shore up my confidence either. In that light the deletion of penalty points for those in high places really made me wonder what we'll never find out about and what they've gotten away with. It's sad cos those who are honest, like that hero whistleblower guard in the penalty points scandal,, seem to be pushed out or completely ostracised. Sad really.


  • #77
    richy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 502 ✭✭✭richy


    When you have the vast majority of youth being searched at least once in their teenage years by Gardai looking for a bit of weed, of course it is going to create negative feelings towards them. I would love to see statistics or a poll on the percentage of people under say 25 that have been searched by Gardai under the Misuse of Drugs Act. I reckon itd easily be over 50%


  • #78
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    richy wrote: »
    When you have the vast majority of youth being searched at least once in their teenage years by Gardai looking for a bit of weed, of course it is going to create negative feelings towards them. I would love to see statistics or a poll on the percentage of people under say 25 that have been searched by Gardai under the Misuse of Drugs Act. I reckon itd easily be over 50%

    But you know that Cannabis is classed as an illegal substance in ireland right now right ? and that possesion of it is an accordingly a criminal offence ?
    and that gardai are responsible for the enforcement of of the criminal laws of the republic of ireland.

    Therefore finding seizing and prosecuting people for cannabis is policing correct?

    A positive attitude on both sides would be grand and encouraging people young and old who would like to smoke do so at home or in a private place where they wouldn't be disturbed would be best.


  • #79
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    Is there any more info for that ?

    is it because there might be previous convictions ? or a perceived judicial prejudice ?

    Generally its the same legal representatives in the same courts

    It's a nonsense claim. If anything, it's the opposite. People with big criminal records from bad areas got away with tons of charges taken into consideration.


  • #80
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It's a nonsense claim. If anything, it's the opposite. People with big criminal records from bad areas got away with tons of charges taken into consideration.

    People with records get away with plenty from good areas too...


  • #81
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    A positive attitude on both sides would be grand and encouraging people young and old who would like to smoke do so at home or in a private place where they wouldn't be disturbed would be best.[/quote]

    I agree things should be done discretely. I also agree that it is the fault of bad laws more than bad policing.


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  • #82
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I think a lot of it comes down to a justice system in need of a serious overhaul, for which people think it's acceptable to blame the Gardai who are in fact bound by it as much as the rest of us.

    Then there are those who simply refuse to think anything other than that the Gardai are lazy useless thugs no matter what, probably because they've ended up on the wrong side of the law and won't accept their own failings.

    It's sad really because in my experience the vast majority of Gardai are good honest hardworking individuals who deal with dregs of society daily and a tough and dangerous job that most of the naysayers would probably baulk at.


  • #83
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I think a lot of it comes down to a justice system in need of a serious overhaul, for which people think it's acceptable to blame the Gardai who are in fact bound by it as much as the rest of us.

    Then there are those who simply refuse to think anything other than that the Gardai are lazy useless thugs no matter what, probably because they've ended up on the wrong side of the law and won't accept their own failings.

    It's sad really because in my experience the vast majority of Gardai are good honest hardworking individuals who deal with dregs of society daily and a tough and dangerous job that most of the naysayers would probably baulk at.
    I couldn't do it for a day. They must see some heartbreaking stuff in fairness. Informing people of deaths etc, not even the worst I know, but it must be so sad. Day in day out accidents also. Couldn't do it atall.


  • #84
    Juan8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭Juan8


    I wouldn't ring them if my house was broken into, horrible bunch, want no contact with them


  • #85
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Juan8 wrote: »
    I wouldn't ring them if my house was broken into, horrible bunch, want no contact with them

    Yes you would.


  • #86
    Juan8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭Juan8


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Yes you would.

    Trust me I wouldn't, it's not like they'd get anything that was robbed back anyway, I avoid them at all costs, always hated them, always will


  • #87
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Yes you would.

    There are loads of people who genuinely wouldn't. Not criminals, regular people, this is a major problem. Lots of crimes go unreported due to bad feeling towards the police service.


  • #88
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Juan8 wrote: »
    I wouldn't ring them if my house was broken into, horrible bunch, want no contact with them

    I find this a bit hard to believe to be honest.....unless of course you have something to hide from them.


  • #89
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Juan8 wrote: »
    Trust me I wouldn't, it's not like they'd get anything that was robbed back anyway, I avoid them at all costs, always hated them, always will

    A healthy attitude. The fact that you said you've always hated Gardaí tells me all I need to know about you. I can understand someone who develops bad feeling after a poor experience but someone like you isn't worth trying to debate with.
    melissak wrote: »
    There are loads of people who genuinely wouldn't. Not criminals, regular people, this is a major problem. Lots of crimes go unreported due to bad feeling towards the police service.

    I don't think it's bad feeling. I think it is more along the lines of not seeing the point. Some people don't think a crime is worth reporting, like petty theft or trespass. Some people just don't want to go through the process when they no there may be no good result.


  • #90
    Juan8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭Juan8


    melissak wrote: »
    There are loads of people who genuinely wouldn't. Not criminals, regular people, this is a major problem. Lots of crimes go unreported due to bad feeling towards the police service.

    Exactly, I'm no criminal but myself and all my friends had horrible experiences with them growing up, maybe it's cause of where we're from compared to others, but everyone around my area hates them and very few would assist them with anything


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  • #91
    Juan8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭Juan8


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    A healthy attitude. The fact that you said you've always hated Gardaí tells me all I need to know about you. I can understand someone who develops bad feeling after a poor experience but someone like you isn't worth trying to debate with.



    I don't think it's bad feeling. I think it is more along the lines of not seeing the point. Some people don't think a crime is worth reporting, like petty theft or trespass. Some people just don't want to go through the process when they no there may be no good result.

    I suppose you've had them assault you as a teenager?


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