3-year-old boy raped at asylum centre in Norway- Mod warnings posts 338&356

weisses · 13-01-2016 11:32AM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

It's not a cultural norm in the Middle East to have sex with minors. That's just not true.

I suggest you read up on the current situation regarding child brides

weisses · 13-01-2016 11:34AM

seamus wrote: »

Flick through the thread. This is AH, I'm entitled to make inflammatory hyperbolic statements without having to provide scientific citations.

You're right ... Here you can just waffle away .... Keep it up

Superhorse · 13-01-2016 11:35AM

Norway and Sweden are lost and Germany is on the brink. If we let our present political reps have their way we are next. Let them know on the doorsteps that you don't want Ireland to become the next Sweden or Norway.

BigJackC · 13-01-2016 11:35AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Just like you've ignored the hundreds of stories of gangrape and sexual assault and paedophilia that are reported on throughout Europe every day

Citations needed.

The NYE attacks were unprecedented in their scale. Police chiefs and politicians have stated as much.

thattequilagirl · 13-01-2016 11:37AM

nokia69 wrote: »

Yes it is

Read up about a country like Yemen or Saudi Arabia

The less people know about the world the more lightly they are to in favour of the present madness going on in Europe

I spent over five years living in the UAE and Qatar, and some of my best friends there are Gulf Arabs, Lebanese, Sudanese, Jordanian and Syrian.

No one over there thinks it's a norm to rape children. My friends with toddlers would be both heartbroken and outraged to hear what happened to this little boy.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen- but it's absolutely not a cultural norm.

Superhorse · 13-01-2016 11:37AM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

It's not a cultural norm in the Middle East to have sex with minors. That's just not true.

This is a horrific crime, and whoever did it should feel the full force of the law, but to write off a religion of more than a billion people or a region of hundreds of millions based on it is disingenuous.

Wrong. Marrying young, sex with children and extreme violence against women is a cultural norm in the middle east. Suggesting otherwise is sticking the head in the sand.

BoJack Horseman · 13-01-2016 11:42AM

seamus wrote: »

I'm not really interested in pandering to those who lack the intellectual gravitas to properly understand a statement..

In case the readers are wondering Seamey.... your statement was:

seamus wrote: »

Seems that whenever anything bad happens these days, everyone is eager to find ways to blame it on refugees.

I simply asked you (repeatedly) for examples of this....
However instead you said:

seamus wrote: »

I'm entitled to make inflammatory hyperbolic statements

Now you are getting all pissy simply because you cannot backup your own self-admitted nonsense.

Take a step back & re-read how stupid this makes you look.

thattequilagirl · 13-01-2016 11:45AM

Superhorse wrote: »

Wrong. Marrying young, sex with children and extreme violence against women is a cultural norm in the middle east. Suggesting otherwise is sticking the head in the sand.

The legal marriage age for a woman in Qatar is 16, Syria and Jordan is 17, and the UAE is 18. It's amazing what a quick google search can tell you. Most people I know from those countries married in their early to mid-20s.

There's no minimum age in Saudi, but since Saudi are basically legitimised ISIS, that's no surprise. You cannot judge the entire region and religion based on Saudi.

BigJackC · 13-01-2016 11:45AM

seamus wrote: »

So a single rape that occurred in a refugee camp is an indication of a problem with all refugees? Yes, it's an horrific crime. There's no doubt about that. But aside from some stupid comments from a stupid woman and the location of the rape, I see no reason why it should be classed as an immigration issue. It's not like no Norwegian has ever raped a child.

This thread isn't even subtley veiled. If a single case in a refugee centre tells us that refugees need to be sent home, then surely we should be burning down churches and deporting all of the catholics right about now?

Rape and violence is rife in the centres. To deny this is to deny reality.

A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,

Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.

And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.

Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or religion

In the case highlighted yesterday, around 5,000 asylum seekers have been crammed into old US military bases in Giessen, western Germany. A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.

The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’

A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’

Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’

Campaign group Women For Refugee Women said the solution was to integrate genuine refugees as quickly as possible into society to remove them from the risks of overcrowded conditions. Its director Natasha Walter said: ‘People should not be in detention centres, they should be in the community where they can avail themselves of the normal protections given to citizens by the authorities.’

But let's continue to ignore it, play it down and call people racist. How's that working out so far?

seamus · 13-01-2016 11:45AM

Superhorse wrote: »

Norway and Sweden are lost and Germany is on the brink.

I'm reminded here of the news footage in Children of Men where they show other countries collapsing into chaos while, "Only Britain soldiers on".

How anyone functions in life with such a skewed version of reality is beyond me. You must go to bed at night with a knife under your pillow lest some Muslim come barging in the front door.

iguana · 13-01-2016 11:49AM

Why is everyone assuming that the poor child is Norwegian? Surely the odds are that a 3 year old in an asylum center was also a refugee?

BigJackC · 13-01-2016 11:50AM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I spent over five years living in the UAE and Qatar, and some of my best friends there are Gulf Arabs, Lebanese, Sudanese, Jordanian and Syrian.

No one over there thinks it's a norm to rape children. My friends with toddlers would be both heartbroken and outraged to hear what happened to this little boy.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen- but it's absolutely not a cultural norm.

More head in the sand type stuff.

Deutsche Welle wrote:

When girls become wives to escape war

Forced marriages and child brides may sound far-fetched in Europe. A true story from the Netherlands dispels this notion. Women's aid organizations expect that Germany will soon be confronted with these issues.

Deutsche Welle wrote:

On the photo the Dutch police is using to find her, Fatema wears a chic, leopard-print headscarf. She gazes seriously and defiantly at the camera, just like any other girl at her age. But Fatema is not a normal teenager. The 14-year-old is married and had her first child roughly two months ago.

Fatema went missing at the end of August

Ever since August 31, the young Syrian woman and her husband, ten years her senior, have dropped off the authorities' radar. The couple arrived in the Netherlands via Germany this summer and was housed in the refugee reception center in Ter Apel. Soon thereafter, Fatema did not appear for an appointment at the hospital. Dutch authorities believe that she has already been taken out of the country.

The child bride case in the heart of Europe has caused a stir. Dutch politician Attje Kuiken reacted by tweeting an appeal to put a stop to the practice as she finds it inacceptable. Children must be allowed to be children, she said.

Deutsche Welle wrote:

When Fatema's story went public, people with foreign citizenship in the Netherlands were still allowed to have their marriage recognized, even to a 16-year-old, if the marriage had officially been registered in their home country. In the meantime, Dutch parliament is drafting legislation to raise the legal age to recognize such marriages to 18. The law is expected to be passed in December. The Dutch minister of immigration, Klaus Dijkhoff, told the BBC in an interview that such relationships would no longer be recognized in the future. "If you are a man with an under-age wife, then you will not be able to bring her here," he said.

Defenseless without a family and a husband

Even though there are no official figures at the moment, Germany is also wondering whether the child brides will become an issue in the future. According to the Federal Office of Migration and Refugees (BAMF), no cases have yet been reported but women's rights organizations like "Terre des Femmes" anticipate the arrival of child brides in the future. The German general manager of "Terre des Femmes", Christa Stolle, says that underage-wives will go to Germany in the context of the family reunification scheme for asylum seekers who are allowed to reside in the country.

Stolle recently visited Turkey and was able to take stock of the situation there. She said that several girls, aged 15 and 16, in refugee camps were waiting to join their husbands in Germany. Many already had one or two children and felt defenseless without a husband or family. Given the current situation, Christa believes that these girls should be allowed to go to Germany. "In Germany, we will have the task of giving them special care," she says. For example, they will be taught German and told that they do not need to stay in these marriages.

Claudia Söder from "Medica Mondiale," an aid organization for women, has a similar view, but also points out that one should not forget the dependency of young women on their husbands and in-laws. "We cannot simply expect that they will easily leave the husband," says Söder. In order to help them to do this, they must be offered advice and trust must be established. "We are not prepared for anything like this in Germany," she says. To avoid putting the young women in a precarious position, the activists always try to involve the family and explain to husbands the advantages of not being solely responsibility for supporting the family. Christa Stolle of "Terre des Femmes" wants to create conditions where girls can grow and develop their skills without violating the rules of their traditions.

seamus · 13-01-2016 11:51AM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Now you are getting all pissy simply because you cannot backup your own self-admitted nonsense.

No, I gave you a thread that's full of "dem immigants", the very first post in thread is a nonsense story about some woman being allegedly evicted to re-home refugees. That's a good enough example.

You decided to ask for more specifics, and I said f*ck that, this is AH, not politics.

Funny that you seem to target me for "proof", when nobody making claims about the evils of muslims seems to be getting the same request. Is that just because you agree with them and disagree with me?

LeeLooLee · 13-01-2016 11:53AM

seamus wrote: »

So a single rape that occurred in a refugee camp is an indication of a problem with all refugees? Yes, it's an horrific crime. There's no doubt about that. But aside from some stupid comments from a stupid woman and the location of the rape, I see no reason why it should be classed as an immigration issue. It's not like no Norwegian has ever raped a child.

This thread isn't even subtley veiled. If a single case in a refugee centre tells us that refugees need to be sent home, then surely we should be burning down churches and deporting all of the catholics right about now?

And the New Years Eve attacks? You're really honestly saying there isn't an issue with hordes of people from countries where men's desires override women's basic human rights coming into Europe? It's acceptable for a European to state that it's our responsibility to understand their ways rather than them taking on the responsibility to behave like decent human beings in a country which has taken them in to help them?

Deise Vu · 13-01-2016 11:54AM

This thread is a classic example of why there is no hope of a proper debate on the issue of how best to help refugees who are clearly in a bad situation but who are also inadvertently sheltering some seriously evil people. Uncontrolled or improperly vetted, these people will grotesquely exacerbate the enormous chasm that still exists between Christian and Muslim cultures with devastating consequences for society down the road if we, or more crucially, the refugees themselves, don't weed the psychos out.

The opening post has a clear quote from a Norwegian lady basically stating the refugees will have to undergo classes to enable them to understand and tolerate the fact that Western women dress and behave differently from Middle Eastern women. Yet there are dozens of posts here which interpret her phrase about cultural norms as being that Westerners will have to accept that Muslims like a bit of kiddie fiddling. That is an utterly ridiculous interpretation of what is written in clear English. On the other hand we are getting people posting about priest paedophilia as if this was somehow acceptable to the vast majority of us and we should therefore ignore it wherever it occurs.

In the meantime, even in little old Ireland, we are trying to deal with the consequences of previously ridiculous residency laws which allow an ISIL activist to recruit and provide support to ISIL and we can't even deport him!

Wake up and start a proper debate. Slinging the same old arrows just isn't working.

thattequilagirl · 13-01-2016 11:55AM

BigJackC wrote: »

More head in the sand type stuff.

It's not head in the sand stuff at all. As I said above, it happens, but it is categorically not the norm. I lived there. I think I would have noticed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-01-2016 11:55AM

Superhorse wrote: »

Wrong. Marrying young, sex with children and extreme violence against women is a cultural norm in the middle east. Suggesting otherwise is sticking the head in the sand.

So what parts of the Middle East have you been to and know if this happening in?

BigJackC · 13-01-2016 11:55AM

seamus wrote: »

No, I gave you a thread that's full of "dem immigants", the very first post in thread is a nonsense story about some woman being allegedly evicted to re-home refugees. That's a good enough example.

It was not a nonsense story. It happened.

The Telegraph wrote:

Second German woman evicted from her home to make way for refugees.

Towns and cities across Germany are struggling to find accommodation for the tens of thousands of refugees streaming into the country.

The Telegraph wrote:

A woman in Germany is being evicted from her home of 23 years to make way for asylum-seekers, in the second such case to emerge.

Gabrielle Keller has been given until the end of the year to leave her flat in the small southern town of Eschbach, near the border with France.

The flat belongs to the local municipality, which says it is needed to house refugees.

“I think it’s a scandal to throw tenants out of their apartments,” the 56-year-old Ms Keller told SWR television. “I can’t see the sense of it.”

seamus · 13-01-2016 11:58AM

LeeLooLee wrote: »

And the New Years Eve attacks? You're really honestly saying there isn't an issue with hordes of people from countries where men's desires override women's basic human rights coming into Europe?

I'm challenging the use of inflammatory words like "hordes", and the continual drive by conservative media to drive undue panic and fear about refugees.

It's acceptable for a European to state that it's our responsibility to understand their ways rather than them taking on the responsibility to behave like decent human beings in a country which has taken them in to help them?

Nope, I never said that.

weisses · 13-01-2016 12:00PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

The legal marriage age for a woman in Qatar is 16, Syria and Jordan is 17, and the UAE is 18. It's amazing what a quick google search can tell you. Most people I know from those countries married in their early to mid-20s.

There's no minimum age in Saudi, but since Saudi are basically legitimised ISIS, that's no surprise. You cannot judge the entire region and religion based on Saudi.

Maybe read the wiki a bit better

The legal marriage for females in Syria is seventeen years old and eighteen for males. Early marriage is not out of the ordinary in their culture. Even though the legal age is seventeen, the courts can allow for girls as young as thirteen to be married. Women are technically allowed to have a say in what the agreements are between them and the groom. Although, since this contract has to be signed by the groom and the male guardian of the bride, her wishes are rarely met.

nokia69 · 13-01-2016 12:02PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

It's not head in the sand stuff at all. As I said above, it happens, but it is categorically not the norm. I lived there. I think I would have noticed.

I don't think you would notice anything, if it went against your PC world view

Thats more or less how be be a left winger, never notice or admit anything that goes against your ideas

thattequilagirl · 13-01-2016 12:03PM

weisses wrote: »

Maybe read the wiki a bit better

Exactly.

To marry below the legal age you need to go to court. That proves my point, not yours (It's not a cultural norm if you have to go to court for it)

BoJack Horseman · 13-01-2016 12:06PM

seamus wrote: »

Funny that you seem to target me for "proof"

Your post was the most recent post in the thread when I opened it.....

Having said that, your persistent refusal to back yourself and subsequent bitchyness has done your hyperbole no favours

seamus wrote: »

Seems that whenever anything bad happens these days, everyone is eager to find ways to blame it on refugees.

Now, "anything" is a very broad spectrum of blame...
I assumed actually backing yourself with specific examples would have been easy!

It still appears not.
aah well...

BoJack Horseman · 13-01-2016 12:08PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

To marry below the legal age you need to go to court. That proves my point, not yours (It's not a cultural norm if you have to go to court for it)

On what grounds would it be approved where it not 'cultural'?

And doing a google search, it appears that child marriage still happens outside urban areas.... but I'm sure this isn't 'cultural'..... probably accidental?

thattequilagirl · 13-01-2016 12:09PM

nokia69 wrote: »

I don't think you would notice anything, if it went against your PC world view

Thats more or less how be be a left winger, never notice or admit anything that goes against your ideas

You continue thinking what you're told to think by the media, I'll continue finding stuff out for myself. Maybe my friend Nelly from Lebanon was actually 13 when she got married and not 24 as she told me. Maybe my friend Muneera has been married since she was in her teens and just pretends that she's single and focusing on her career. I could go on. I have dozens of female friends who are Arab Muslims who married in their 20s, or not at all. But you don't want to hear that. You're the one who can't accept anything that contradicts your world view.

thattequilagirl · 13-01-2016 12:11PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

On what grounds would it be approved where it not 'cultural'?

And doing a google search, it appears that child marriage still happens outside urban areas.... but I'm sure this isn't 'cultural'..... probably accidental?

As I've said repeatedly on this thread, I'm not saying it never happens- I'm saying it's not the norm. Because it's not.

nokia69 · 13-01-2016 12:12PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

You continue thinking what you're told to think by the media, I'll continue finding stuff out for myself. Maybe my friend Nelly from Lebanon was actually 13 when she got married and not 24 as she told me. Maybe my friend Muneera has been married since she was in her teens and just pretends that she's single and focusing on her career. I could go on. I have dozens of female friends who are Arab Muslims who married in their 20s, or not at all. But you don't want to hear that. You're the one who can't accept anything that contradicts your world view.

Amazing, the delusion is just epic

Just because you never met a child bride or a child rape victim, it never happens

BigJackC · 13-01-2016 12:13PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

You continue thinking what you're told to think by the media, I'll continue finding stuff out for myself. Maybe my friend Nelly from Lebanon was actually 13 when she got married and not 24 as she told me. Maybe my friend Muneera has been married since she was in her teens and just pretends that she's single and focusing on her career. I could go on. I have dozens of female friends who are Arab Muslims who married in their 20s, or not at all. But you don't want to hear that. You're the one who can't accept anything that contradicts your world view.

I don't know anybody from Leitrim, ergo, Leitrim doesn't exist.

Mad logic.

Chimichangas · 13-01-2016 12:14PM

speedboatchase wrote:

Linda Hagen of Hero, a private company that runs 40 percent of Norway's reception centres for refugees, said: "There's no single cultural code to say what is good or bad behaviour because we want a free society.

"There has to be tolerance for attitudes that may be seen as immoral by some traditional or religious norms."

The quote had nothing to do with the rape of a child, but everything to do with very traditional or religious people being tolerant of different attitudes or what might be considered immoral.
But that didn't stop people believing the unbelievable. I would have thought it was obvious, but obviously not.
Well done op for straightening that bs out. But probably would be better edited into your first post, coz it seems it's easy, or suitable, to believe for some.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

As long as idiots like her are given a platform to spout ****e like this then we will always have a problem.

Drakares wrote:

Awaiting lefties coming to say the poor asylum seekers don't know any better.

strelok wrote:

that seems pretty damn far out there, even for a 21st century progressive leftie

speedboatchase wrote:

Seems like the quotes are about a course in Norway that teaches new arrivals to not sexually assault people, and that's it's bad:

weisses · 13-01-2016 12:14PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Exactly.

To marry below the legal age you need to go to court. That proves my point, not yours (It's not a cultural norm if you have to go to court for it)

It's not out of the ordinary 13 year old girls are forced to marry ( from the wiki)

A judge can force a child to marry a 40 year old guy ..

But it's okay for you as long it's not the cultural norm ....

Just tell me how many children can be raped by our standards but approved by the courts over there before you raise an eyebrow "?

3-year-old boy raped at asylum centre in Norway- Mod warnings posts 338&356

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