Swedish police accused of covering up rampant sexual abuse at music festival

Shenshen · 12-01-2016 12:21PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I don't think so, I think it was purely to avoid looking racist. In Sweden it looks like it was certainly to avoid giving propaganda to the SDP. In Cologne it looks like it was to avoid massive amounts of Germans descending on Cologne and lynching people who looked like they night be "migrants."

These are minor distinctions to be honest, the broader point is that they were attempted cover ups and there are parallels with how many on the left are denying the reality in an attempt to counter the right capitalising. This is a misguided tactic. If the Left can't admit there are cultural issues which make this more social acceptable among certain communities then we are handing the right the narrative and telling them to do what they like with it. People won't turn towards the politics of those who deny reality for political purposes.

Honestly, where do people get this idea from that there were attempts to cover up anything in Germany? Local papers had requests from the police for witnesses to come forward THE VERY NEXT DAY. But since police initially only had around 40 reports (3 of which were for sexual assaults, the rest pickpocketing), they were looking for information locally, not nationally.

Special Circumstances · 12-01-2016 12:23PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Honestly, where do people get this idea from that there were attempts to cover up anything in Germany? Local papers had requests from the police for witnesses to come forward THE VERY NEXT DAY. But since police initially only had around 40 reports (3 of which were for sexual assaults, the rest pickpocketing), they were looking for information locally, not nationally.

Link please, that is a very different situation to the "5 days" usually reported.

Shenshen · 12-01-2016 12:28PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Link please, that is a very different situation to the "5 days" usually reported.

"RP Online berichtete am Nachmittag des 1. Januar um 14.49 Uhr über die Räumung des Bahnhofsvorplatzes kurz vor Mitternacht."

"Am Neujahrstag richtete die Polizei dann eine Sonderkommission ein. Am 2. Januar teilte sie mit, dass bei verschiedenen Vorfällen in der Silvesternacht Frauen Opfer von Übergriffen wurden. Sie benannte auch das laut Zeugen "nordafrikanische Aussehen" der Tatverdächtigen. Damit ging die Polizei bereits zwei Tage nach dem Vorfall auf die Herkunft der Täter ein – ein Punkt, der angeblich verschwiegen worden sei."

"Am 2. Januar zogen der Kölner Stadtanzeiger, die Süddeutsche Zeitung sowie RTL nach und berichteten von sexuellen Belästigungen und Diebstählen in Köln während der Silvesternacht."

http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-01/koeln-silvester-sexuelle-uebergriffe-raub-faq

You'll have to check German media for that, I have noticed that reporting in the English speaking press is by far more .... shall we say "selective".

LDN_Irish · 12-01-2016 12:34PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Honestly, where do people get this idea from that there were attempts to cover up anything in Germany?

The media is where I got the impression it was covered up. And not conservativenews.com (I just made that site up but it's probably real). The police chief has been suspended for his mishandling of the situation. The true facts of what happened did not hit papers until days later, from the reports I've seen. The police chief has been suspended for mishandling the whole situation. Maybe you're right and there was no cover up, can you show me the first reports of what actually happened? Not "there were some problems in Cologne on NYE" but an actual outline of what happened.

Edit: I didn't see your above post when I wrote this.

Hande hoche! · 12-01-2016 12:34PM

emo72 wrote: »

http://www.hijra2ireland.com/

This part was my favourite: "Irish youth have grown up expecting a certain life style that doesn’t involve hard work and manual labor".

LDN_Irish · 12-01-2016 12:36PM

Hande hoche! wrote: »

This part was my favourite: "Irish youth have grown up expecting a certain life style that doesn’t involve hard work and manual labor".

I actually think it's possible that's a troll site. It's like a checklist for everything right wing people say is wrong with Ireland.

BigJackC · 12-01-2016 12:39PM

Quote from the head of a German police union (DPolG) Rainer Wendt: "Its unclear if their will be any prosecutions at all. [...] Theres simply not enough personnelfor an effective prosecution." , said in an interview with the "Passauer Neue Presse".

So most likely nothing will happen and the little guttersnipes will get away with it. Which will just embolden them and they will do the same again. It is just a matter of when.

BigJackC · 12-01-2016 12:40PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I actually think it's possible that's a troll site. It's like a checklist for everything right wing people say is wrong with Ireland.

The page has over 70,000 likes on Facebook. If it's a troll site, then whoever created it went to an awful lot of effort. Translated it all into Arabic too.

LDN_Irish · 12-01-2016 12:45PM

Shenshen wrote: »

"RP Online berichtete am Nachmittag des 1. Januar um 14.49 Uhr über die Räumung des Bahnhofsvorplatzes kurz vor Mitternacht."

"Am Neujahrstag richtete die Polizei dann eine Sonderkommission ein. Am 2. Januar teilte sie mit, dass bei verschiedenen Vorfällen in der Silvesternacht Frauen Opfer von Übergriffen wurden. Sie benannte auch das laut Zeugen "nordafrikanische Aussehen" der Tatverdächtigen. Damit ging die Polizei bereits zwei Tage nach dem Vorfall auf die Herkunft der Täter ein – ein Punkt, der angeblich verschwiegen worden sei."

"Am 2. Januar zogen der Kölner Stadtanzeiger, die Süddeutsche Zeitung sowie RTL nach und berichteten von sexuellen Belästigungen und Diebstählen in Köln während der Silvesternacht."

http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-01/koeln-silvester-sexuelle-uebergriffe-raub-faq

You'll have to check German media for that, I have noticed that reporting in the English speaking press is by far more .... shall we say "selective".

I'm on mobile view and my translate isn't working great because that link is all over the place for me. But is that an article from 5 days after the event? I can see a reference to the second of Jan:

"Am 2. Januar zogen der Kölner Stadtanzeiger, die Süddeutsche Zeitung sowie RTL nach und berichteten von sexuellen Belästigungen und Diebstählen in Köln während der Silvesternacht."

But all this says is that there were a lot sexual assaults. (Says google translate.) I haven't seen anything to support that the truth was told about this event until days later when facebook and other social media were hopping with it.

LDN_Irish · 12-01-2016 12:46PM

BigJackC wrote: »

The page has over 70,000 likes on Facebook. If it's a troll site, then whoever created it went to an awful lot of effort. Translated it all into Arabic too.

OK thanks. I didn't look further in to it than browsing through their links. Amazing lack of self awareness if it is exactly as it seems.

Hande hoche! · 12-01-2016 12:48PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

OK thanks. I didn't look further in to it than browsing through their links. Amazing lack of self awareness if it is exactly as it seems.

Most of their Facebook activity seems to be referring people to the website. So not too sure if it's a piss-take or not.

jmayo · 12-01-2016 12:49PM

Hande hoche! wrote: »

This part was my favourite: "Irish youth have grown up expecting a certain life style that doesn’t involve hard work and manual labor".

As opposed to a youth that have grown up thinking it is ok to subjugate half the population as second class citizens and slaughter people who don't agree with your backward mindset. :rolleyes:

See how generalisations work.

Cologne was an eye opener for some, hopefully the majority of Germans, who might finally see the writing on the wall.

For some it is just what they have said was already happening and going to happen more.

Something the leftie pro refugee/migration lobby fail to acknowledge is the fact that a lot of these so called refugees are young males who come from backgrounds which often sees Western women as easy at best and whores at worst.

Shenshen · 12-01-2016 01:01PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I'm on mobile view and my translate isn't working great because that link is all over the place for me. But is that an article from 5 days after the event? I can see a reference to the second of Jan:

"Am 2. Januar zogen der Kölner Stadtanzeiger, die Süddeutsche Zeitung sowie RTL nach und berichteten von sexuellen Belästigungen und Diebstählen in Köln während der Silvesternacht."

But all this says is that there were a lot sexual assaults. (Says google translate.) I haven't seen anything to support that the truth was told about this event until days later when facebook and other social media were hopping with it.

The report I quoted is a summary, so yes, it was published later.
They reference other papers, stating that RP Online reported incidents leading to the Domplatte being closed to the public shortly after midnight on the night in question.
They go on to report that a special commission was set up by police on the morning of New Years Day. Please bear in mind that at that point, they had some 40 reports of criminal activity, with 3 reports of sexual molestation, so this reporting seems quite adequate.
It was only in the days following that more and more reports were made to police, and they consequently reported those to the media.

I'd also note that the local head of police resigned not because of the way this was "covered up", but because he was accused of not providing enough police to Koeln on New Years Eve, and couldn't organise reinforcements when when fireworks were being thrown into the crowd (not an unusual occurence in any German town on New Years Eve, tbh.)

BigJackC · 12-01-2016 01:13PM

The Guardian wrote:

The New Year’s Eve attacks were only widely covered by national media early this week, after police had initially reported no major incidents.

The German public broadcaster, ZDF, on Wednesday apologised for delays in reporting on the wave of sexual assaults and deciding to postpone a news segment until Tuesday. “The news situation was clear enough. It was a mistake of the 7pm ‘heute’ show not to at least report the incidents,” wrote deputy chief editor Elmar Thevessen on the show’s Facebook page.

The police initially reported that nothing happened and the public broadcaster apologised for the delay in reporting the story. Then they claimed that no asylum seekers were involved. Even though they were sitting on a report that stated that over half of the suspects were asylum seekers. But there was no cover up. No sirree.

Make no mistake, if this was a group of 100 or so Germans attacking and sexually abusing refugee women, there would have been no delay or cover up in reporting it. And quite rightfully so. There would be outrage, it would have been immediately all over the worlds media, politicians would have been straight out of the blocks condemning it, no crap about "attacking arms length", there would be marches and protests.

FactCheck · 12-01-2016 01:16PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I actually think it's possible that's a troll site. It's like a checklist for everything right wing people say is wrong with Ireland.

It's most definitely a hoax. The whois data suggests the owner is Dutch.

70,000 likes in 3 months isn't evidence of bona fides. Indeed, quite the opposite - the only way a page gets something like that is through bots or buying likes. Neither of which is complicated or expensive.

ترجمة النص إلى اللغة العربية يأخذ ثانيتين مع جوجل ترجمة .
[Translating text to Arabic takes two seconds with Google Translate.]

It's either a 4chan-style troll designed to scaremonger, or a scam site designed to con people out of cash. Given that the Dutch lad running it doesn't seem to want direct contact with anyone, preferring to (bizarrely) direct them to the MRCI, my money's on /pol/ hoax.

Shenshen · 12-01-2016 01:22PM

BigJackC wrote: »

The police initially reported that nothing happened and the public broadcaster apologised for the delay in reporting the story. Then they claimed that no asylum seekers were involved. Even though they were sitting on a report that stated that over half of the suspects were asylum seekers. But there was no cover up. No sirree.

Make no mistake, if this was a group of 100 or so Germans attacking and sexually abusing refugee women, there would have been no delay or cover up in reporting it. And quite rightfully so. There would be outrage, it would have been immediately all over the worlds media, politicians would have been straight out of the blocks condemning it, no crap about "attacking arms length", there would be marches and protests.

Report from the 2nd of January about the SoKo being set up by police following the 30 reports they had at the time :

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panorama/koeln-serienweise-uebergriffe-auf-frauen-am-bahnhof-aid-1.5665055

Report from the 3rd of January about the first arrests :

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/koeln/hauptbahnhof-koeln-uebergriffe-auf-frauen-polizei-nimmt-fuenf-maenner-fest-aid-1.5665287

As I said, the reports in the English media seem to range from extremely selective to downright untruthful.

Nodin · 12-01-2016 01:27PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Report from the 2nd of January about the SoKo being set up by police following the 30 reports they had at the time :

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panorama/koeln-serienweise-uebergriffe-auf-frauen-am-bahnhof-aid-1.5665055

Report from the 3rd of January about the first arrests :

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/koeln/hauptbahnhof-koeln-uebergriffe-auf-frauen-polizei-nimmt-fuenf-maenner-fest-aid-1.5665287

As I said, the reports in the English media seem to range from extremely selective to downright untruthful.

...a case of giving a certain readership what they want to read I'd say.

.45auto · 12-01-2016 01:33PM

FactCheck wrote: »

It's most definitely a hoax. The whois data suggests the owner is Dutch.

70,000 likes in 3 months isn't evidence of bona fides. Indeed, quite the opposite - the only way a page gets something like that is through bots or buying likes. Neither of which is complicated or expensive.

ترجمة النص إلى اللغة العربية يأخذ ثانيتين مع جوجل ترجمة .
[Translating text to Arabic takes two seconds with Google Translate.]

It's either a 4chan-style troll designed to scaremonger, or a scam site designed to con people out of cash. Given that the Dutch lad running it doesn't seem to want direct contact with anyone, preferring to (bizarrely) direct them to the MRCI, my money's on /pol/ hoax.

/pol/ is always right

Little CuChulainn · 12-01-2016 01:54PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Report from the 2nd of January about the SoKo being set up by police following the 30 reports they had at the time :

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panorama/koeln-serienweise-uebergriffe-auf-frauen-am-bahnhof-aid-1.5665055

Report from the 3rd of January about the first arrests :

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/koeln/hauptbahnhof-koeln-uebergriffe-auf-frauen-polizei-nimmt-fuenf-maenner-fest-aid-1.5665287

As I said, the reports in the English media seem to range from extremely selective to downright untruthful.

Those are in German. How are Irish and English xenophobes supposed to be able to read those?

Nodin · 12-01-2016 01:57PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Those are in German. How are Irish and English xenophobes supposed to be able to read those?

It doesn't matter that they can't read them, as long as the others can't either. Likewise Finnish and Swedish are great for the foreigner bashing, because you can make a claim, stick an article up, and hope google translate makes it too painful for anyone to wade through 300 pages of it for them to find where you're wrong .

K-9 · 12-01-2016 01:57PM

I was listening to a Daily Mail journalist on Matt Cooper last week about Cologne, naturally he was shocked by it, but he did say he has to fact check everything strongly now because he has got hoax or wrong stuff sent to him. That's a Mail journo so...

That Facebook page is just click bait for me.

BigJackC · 12-01-2016 02:00PM

Those newslinks also don't refute anything in my post. There was a delay in reporting about the assaults. The public broadcaster apologised for this. The media and police denied that asylum seekers were involved until a week after the incident.

There is absolutely nothing xenophobic about being concerned about huge groups of migrant men running amok, sexually abusing and assaulting people on a night out. If you think that there is, then the problem is at your end.

Nodin · 12-01-2016 02:06PM

BigJackC wrote: »

Those newslinks also don't refute anything in my post. There was a delay in reporting about the assaults. The public broadcaster apologised for this. The media and police denied that asylum seekers were involved until a week after the incident.

There is absolutely nothing xenophobic about being concerned about huge groups of migrant men running amok, sexually abusing and assaulting people on a night out. If you think that there is, then the problem is at your end.

The police were apparently publically looking for witnesses from the 1st of january. Odd way to cover up.

K-9 · 12-01-2016 02:09PM

BigJackC wrote: »

Those newslinks also don't refute anything in my post. There was a delay in reporting about the assaults. The public broadcaster apologised for this. The media and police denied that asylum seekers were involved until a week after the incident.

There is absolutely nothing xenophobic about being concerned about huge groups of migrant men running amok, sexually abusing and assaulting people on a night out. If you think that there is, then the problem is at your end.

The police said it was North African/Middle Eastern men. I mean they basically spelled it out for people. It's bad enough without ignoring basic facts.

walshyn93 · 12-01-2016 02:16PM

Nodin wrote: »

The police were apparently publically looking for witnesses from the 1st of january. Odd way to cover up.

So they say.

sbsquarepants · 12-01-2016 02:25PM

cajonlardo wrote: »

No way it is that simple. Anyone , man or woman, believe they wouldn't help their own in that situation? I am not saying it did not happen that way - simply that I cannot understand it.

It's a misconception that if you're attacked in the street people will come to your aid - the vast majority of people just won't. It's a rare individual who put's themselves in harms way for a stranger.

Shenshen · 12-01-2016 02:36PM

BigJackC wrote: »

Those newslinks also don't refute anything in my post. There was a delay in reporting about the assaults. The public broadcaster apologised for this. The media and police denied that asylum seekers were involved until a week after the incident.

There is absolutely nothing xenophobic about being concerned about huge groups of migrant men running amok, sexually abusing and assaulting people on a night out. If you think that there is, then the problem is at your end.

Which public broadcaster? Germany has a good few.
How much of a delay is a report that came out a day after the assaults were reported to police?
They reported that men of North African origin were involved straight away - they couldn't really have know that they were asylum seekers before they made the arrests, could they?

Again, for those with short attention spans, I'm in no way defending the actions of the people who assaulted an robbed others in Koeln on New Years Eve. In no way at all. They need to be found and brought to justice.
Neither do I defend the lack of police in the town at the time, nor the consequent delayed response - they only cleared the area shortly around midnight, that should have happened much sooner.

I do however dispute that there is any kind of cover-up going on, that the police were keeping information back or that the press didn't report. Both allegations are factually incorrect. But that's the nice thing about a conspiracy theory, facts will do little to sway the believer.

AlekSmart · 12-01-2016 02:36PM

walshyn93 wrote: »

So they say.

Indeed "They" do,although,it appears "we" need far more of "them"....

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/11/10750858/cologne-sexual-assault-migrants

It took about five days for the New Year's Eve assaults to become national news in Germany. Once it did, the public outcry was understandably furious.

This "Public Outcry" is SO unnecessary....it's only a few lads havin the craic...is'nt it..?

God bless the Germans,they're level headed as ever...

"After the intoxication with drugs and alcohol came violence," Ralf Jaeger, the interior minister for North Rhine-Westphalia (the German state that includes Cologne), said in a Monday hearing. "It culminated in the acting out of fantasies of sexual omnipotence. That must be severely punished."

Whilst Ralf's superior ventured...

"My suspicion is that this specific date was picked, and a certain number of people expected. This would again add another dimension [to the crimes]," German Justice Minister Heiko Mass told the newspaper Bild am Sonntag.

But,yea,it could all be just down to the level-headed,boring ol Germans simply not knowing how to chill.....

The outnumbered officers focused on breaking up ongoing assaults rather than attempting to apprehend anyone — and even then were met with violence. According to the author of the Cologne police report, officers were met with a level of resistance "like I have never experienced in my 29 years of public service" and were "bombarded with fireworks and pelted with glass bottles."

So they say...... ?

Shenshen · 12-01-2016 02:38PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's a misconception that if you're attacked in the street people will come to your aid - the vast majority of people just won't. It's a rare individual who put's themselves in harms way for a stranger.

The odd thing about human behaviour in such situations is that the more people are around, the less likely it is that any one of them will help.
It's a sort of mental passing the blame, everybody waits for "someone" to do "something".

cajonlardo · 12-01-2016 02:41PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's a misconception that if you're attacked in the street people will come to your aid - the vast majority of people just won't. It's a rare individual who put's themselves in harms way for a stranger.

I think you are right - but when I said "Your own" I meant a relative, spouse or whatever - realise now that was poor choice of words given the context.
Like I said, I know how I react because I was faced it with it whilst I was a child ( and I was a meek kid) I appreciate not everyone can fight or will fight - but not one? No off duty military/Police? No average young male? Not one?
That is odd.

Swedish police accused of covering up rampant sexual abuse at music festival

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