Feminism at odds with the trans movement

steddyeddy · 11-01-2016 01:27AM #1

I'm starting to lose track of these groups and what they stand for.

I was watching Newsnight a few nights back and I seen a segment dealing with transgender people. The segment highlighted the fact that some transgender people feel they should not be asked to put down gender on official documents. The interesting part for me is the feminist writer Sarah Ditum's attitudes towards the assignment of genders. She seems to want to protect the labeling of genders lest we forget how much men oppress women. First of all I don't think it's fair to use blanket terms like "men oppress women" like Sarah does in the video and secondly I think there's a disturbing trend whereby some feminists are getting annoyed that some trans people identify as women.

I think these groups should go back to being about equality and not whatever they're up to now. In case people think this is a feminism hating thread I'm a supporter of equality as people might notice by now. I just don't believe blaming other demographics is the way forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnui7OqawSM

Sonics2k · 11-01-2016 01:29AM

This'll end well. They always do

darkpagandeath · 11-01-2016 01:31AM

Sure did not Caitlyn sort this lot out single handedly we are all equal what's the issue now ?

Iwasfrozen · 11-01-2016 01:41AM

Can't we just have "sex" on all forms instead of "gender" going forward? Problem solved.

.45auto · 11-01-2016 01:43AM

I love these stories. As per usual these groups turn on eachother and implode.

xband · 11-01-2016 01:47AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Can't we just have "sex" on all forms instead of "gender" going forward? Problem solved.

When you put that on forms smart arses write "Yes please!"

.45auto · 11-01-2016 01:48AM

xband wrote: »

When you put that on forms smart arses write "Yes please!"

Ye its usually cis scum

ancapailldorcha · 11-01-2016 01:48AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think these groups should go back to being about equality and not whatever they're up to now. In case people think this is a feminism hating thread I'm a supporter of equality as people might notice by now. I just don't believe blaming other demographics is the way forward.

Call me cynical but perceived sexism, real or not serves as a meal ticket for many of these trendy, white feminists. It supplies them with newspaper columns, paid speaking opportunities and book sales. If we somehow had perfect equality for everyone tomorrow, LGBT, women, ethnic minorities, etc... Do you think that they'd just quit?

I'm starting to think of myself as a Libertarian as it makes a lot more sense to me than pandering to these groups with their demands for censorship, special privileges and handouts.

BunkMoreland · 11-01-2016 01:51AM

Trans movement? I wouldn't vote for them.

kupus · 11-01-2016 01:57AM

you can only be so open minded until your brain falls out,

e_e · 11-01-2016 02:02AM

I'm more open to feminism than a lot of people here it seems but I have absolutely zero time for the TERF (Trans Exclusionary Radicals) side of it all.

steddyeddy · 11-01-2016 02:07AM

e_e wrote: »

I'm more open to feminism than a lot of people here it seems but I have absolutely zero time for the TERF (Trans Exclusionary Radicals) side of it all.

It's the first I've heard of it. Of course I support equality between the genders but I don't get why some feminists seem annoyed at the trans movement.

ancapailldorcha · 11-01-2016 02:09AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's the first I've heard of it. Of course I support equality between the genders but I don't get why some feminists seem annoyed at the trans movement.

I suspect that they don't see trans women as real women. It's also possible, sadly that they don't appreciate having their perceived spotlight stolen.

e_e · 11-01-2016 02:13AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's the first I've heard of it. Of course I support equality between the genders but I don't get why some feminists seem annoyed at the trans movement.

Was talking to one once and they were all "oh they're not really women, it's just men appropriating femininity" or some bigoted crap like that. I knew well enough to back away right there. :P

steddyeddy · 11-01-2016 02:17AM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I suspect that they don't see trans women as real women. It's also possible, sadly that they don't appreciate having their perceived spotlight stolen.

I think that's the sentiment alright. If you watch the video the feminist lady seems quite upset that men get to be called women. Also she seems to not like the idea of some men being called women in case we forget how bad men are.

How are people like these given a platform?

Samaris · 11-01-2016 02:25AM

Eh, every group of any sort has radicals and general lunacy off both ends. Yer wan up there no more speaks for all women (or feminists) any more than Masculinist India represents all men (including the ones that would like more rights in court to their children and for psychologists to take male depression more seriously).

nokia69 · 11-01-2016 02:25AM

Its a mental health issue

These people are sick and need help and support, I feel sorry for them

I think the video proves my point, as mad as a box of frogs

steddyeddy · 11-01-2016 02:32AM

Samaris wrote: »

Eh, every group of any sort has radicals and general lunacy off both ends. Yer wan up there no more speaks for all women (or feminists) any more than Masculinist India represents all men (including the ones that would like more rights in court to their children and for psychologists to take male depression more seriously).

Unfortunately Sarah Ditum isn't radical at all. Sarah is a writer for the Guardian, the New Statesman and other publications. She's listened to and that's the problem.

.45auto · 11-01-2016 02:34AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Unfortunately Sarah Ditum isn't radical at all. Sarah is a writer for the Guardian, the New Statesman and other publications. She's listened to and that's the problem.

She pushes the marxist agenda. All these marxists worm into positions of powerand spew their agenda

DEFTLEFTHAND · 11-01-2016 02:41AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's the first I've heard of it. Of course I support equality between the genders but I don't get why some feminists seem annoyed at the trans movement.

It's incompatible with the gender is a social construct theory.

ceadaoin. · 11-01-2016 03:23AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's the first I've heard of it. Of course I support equality between the genders but I don't get why some feminists seem annoyed at the trans movement.

Gender critical feminists think that gender is a social construct. Generally the trans movement is saying the opposite, that gender is innate.

They also object to people with functioning penises being allowed into womens spaces.

Also, I hate to say it but there is an awful lot of misogyny present in some aspects of the trans movement.

JupiterKid · 11-01-2016 04:37AM

There's a definite antagonism among feminists towards transgender people and groups. Germaine Greer has gone on record to opine that trans women are not real women - that they are just men appropriating femininity. This has (rightly IMO) upset trans people.

I don't see why feminists and trans advocates can't live together in harmony.

Hammer89 · 11-01-2016 05:19AM

e_e wrote: »

I'm more open to feminism than a lot of people here it seems but I have absolutely zero time for the TERF (Trans Exclusionary Radicals) side of it all.

Didn't they sing You Get What You Give?

Hammer89 · 11-01-2016 05:20AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Unfortunately Sarah Ditum isn't radical at all. Sarah is a writer for the Guardian, the New Statesman and other publications. She's listened to and that's the problem.

Friend of mine says she is. Then again, he is a surfer.

Drum noise.

11-01-2016 05:39AM

Like BLM, they do more damage than good. Although I'd be quite interested in examples of what modern feminism (the crazy kind) has done. Sounds like they make a lot of noise about nothing but I could be wrong.

Samaris · 11-01-2016 06:23AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Unfortunately Sarah Ditum isn't radical at all. Sarah is a writer for the Guardian, the New Statesman and other publications. She's listened to and that's the problem.

You can be radical and still be influential. Otherwise, anyone with a wacky notion (such as democracy, communism, the Spinning Jenny, any given religion, insert idea here, etcetera) would never get off the ground. Doesn't mean that X particular notion isn't off the wall.

JupiterKid wrote: »

I don't see why feminists and trans advocates can't live together in harmony.

I don't see why men and women can't live in harmony. Or people of different races. Or fans of Pokemon and fans of Digimon.

Yis are over-simplifying is my point. Beyond race, gender, fandom, religion, hair colour, people is people and there are always nutty* people and dicks. No point taking any single person as "representative of their *whatever**" or you run the risk of over-simplifying any given problem to some random person who shouts louder than the rest at any given moment. Otherwise, I should agree implicitly with anyone with black hair, since mine is black and I, ofc, thus speak for all people with black hair***. Minorities maybe SHOULD support each other, but why would they? Go back to the Civil Rights Movement vs. the Women's Vote movement. Not all women wanted black people to have the vote, not all black people felt that women should have the vote. Black women got screwed regardless. But people are people, as I said before, and we all have our own prejudices and arseholery.

* "Nutty", of course, is Any Position I Don't Agree With :P

**Yes, yes, there's no systematic whateverism against people with black hair, thus we don't bother speaking and don't have a group***, but you get my point.

***I bet somewhere on the internet is a Black Hair Unite group.

BenedrylPete · 11-01-2016 08:58AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0dFsAtAlEo

desertcircus · 11-01-2016 09:04AM

Feminism isn't at odds with trans rights. A small but noisy subgroup of feminists who also happen to be complete arseholes refuse to accept trans women as "real" women.

Annasopra · 11-01-2016 09:05AM

nokia69 wrote: »

Its a mental health issue

These people are sick and need help and support, I feel sorry for them

I think the video proves my point, as mad as a box of frogs

Which people? Women? Feminists? Trans exclusionary rad fems? Trans people?

thee glitz · 11-01-2016 09:11AM

desertcircus wrote: »

Feminism isn't at odds with trans rights. A small but noisy subgroup of feminists who also happen to be complete arseholes refuse to accept trans women as "real" women.

It's not just feminists who think that.

thee glitz · 11-01-2016 09:15AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Which people? Women? Feminists? Trans exclusionary rad fems? Trans people?

Most likely the Trans people.

Feminism at odds with the trans movement

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