I hate the pigs mentality

Canadel · 10-01-2016 02:45AM

People who refer to the police as pigs are always a boar.

fergiesfolly · 10-01-2016 03:04AM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

What have we learned today children?

That some people will still actually make rape jokes.

R.D. aka MR.D · 10-01-2016 03:15AM

KwackerJack wrote: »

One person quoted "sure they were probably going to the shop for doughnuts and they ran into the drug dealer" :rolleyes: very mature!!

?

The person was obviously a teenager. The donut stereotype is an American one.

If I'm online and it read it said about an Irish context, I would just assume that it's a teenager with very little outdoors play time.

10-01-2016 04:12AM

As many have said, a minority think it.. Most countries would be very happy to have the guards.

hatrickpatrick · 10-01-2016 09:08AM

KwackerJack wrote: »

A big drugs bust happened today and more Heroin is now off the streets but are they happy oh god no!

And therein probably lies the contention.
Legalise drugs tomorrow and I suspect a vast amount of cop hate would evaporate overnight.

ElleEm · 10-01-2016 09:17AM

I am so confused.

Avatar MIA · 10-01-2016 09:20AM

The gardai are the new nurses. Saints one and all.

They are just doing a job. A fairly poorly paid one at that.

Of course the country would be significantly worse off if the state didn't provide a police force.

Menas · 10-01-2016 09:32AM

ElleEm wrote: »

I am so confused.

Its simple. Some people hate the police and think that we would be better off without them.
Except no one knows any of these people.
And there are drugs that should be legalised to make people love the police and someone got raped every 26 seconds. On facebook. In south africa. I think.

10-01-2016 09:36AM

I think most people realize that the Gardaí do an incredible job, when someone needs them the most. In fairness to them, they do a fantastic job at catching murderers. They don't do a great job at other stuff, but 99% of police forces around the world would be the exact same. I mean, at least ours haven't killed around a thousand innocent people in one year ..

rafatoni · 10-01-2016 09:39AM

The minute i saw facebook quouted i tuned out.

Oh dear, facebook...

ElleEm · 10-01-2016 10:03AM

Menas wrote: »

Its simple. Some people hate the police and think that we would be better off without them.
Except no one knows any of these people.
And there are drugs that should be legalised to make people love the police and someone got raped every 26 seconds. On facebook. In south africa. I think.

And car tax.

Now I get it!

Little CuChulainn · 10-01-2016 10:12AM

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

The person was obviously a teenager. The donut stereotype is an American one.

If I'm online and it read it said about an Irish context, I would just assume that it's a teenager with very little outdoors play time.

Should have gone with breakfast roll.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And therein probably lies the contention.
Legalise drugs tomorrow and I suspect a vast amount of cop hate would evaporate overnight.

No it wouldn't. It's just an excuse. At the heart of the issue it's a problem with authority. If it wasn't drugs it'd be drink, or car tax, or insurance. Many people just don't like when someone else has authority over them. They don't like being told what to do.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 10-01-2016 10:24AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I have a feeling those people are a tiny tiny minority.Probably around 0.000001% of our population.

No point really bothering about opinions shared by so few people.

I think it's a considerably larger percentage than that. Ireland has developed a bunch of haters who actually have no reason to hate but jump on the bandwagon as many of them haven't the intellect to make their own opinions and simply follow others who have even lower levels of intelligence. The Internet and social media can be partly blamed but successive governments pandering to Europe and every minority group that raises a voice is the biggest cause. The Gardai then are blamed when these minorities are told no, you can't have what you want.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 10-01-2016 11:17AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Should have gone with breakfast roll.

No it wouldn't. It's just an excuse. At the heart of the issue it's a problem with authority. If it wasn't drugs it'd be drink, or car tax, or insurance. Many people just don't like when someone else has authority over them. They don't like being told what to do.

And here in a nutshell is where the hatred for the Guards comes from. Instead of thinking that they are there to protect us they believe that they have authority over us.

Little CuChulainn · 10-01-2016 11:32AM

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

And here in a nutshell is where the hatred for the Guards comes from. Instead of thinking that they are there to protect us they believe that they have authority over us.

Gardaí do have authority over people. That's just a fact. It's enshrined in legislation. Is this something you dispute? Would you like me to post the various pieces of legislation which gives Gardaí authority to require people to do things?

Why you think that protecting people and having authority over people are mutually exclusive is beyond me.

hatrickpatrick · 10-01-2016 12:19PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Should have gone with breakfast roll.

No it wouldn't. It's just an excuse. At the heart of the issue it's a problem with authority. If it wasn't drugs it'd be drink, or car tax, or insurance. Many people just don't like when someone else has authority over them. They don't like being told what to do.

I'd be one of those people, but I think it's safe enough to say that there is now a fairly firm majority which does not believe in victimless crime, and as such believes that arrests for the possession of drugs for personal use is absolute bullsh!t.

Most people I know who have issues with police have issues with them for this reason and this reason alone. It's pretty unfair in my view, it's successive governments who should be blamed for legislating this and not the Gardai who have no choice but to enforce it.

As Turk said, the Gardai are here to protect us - giving people sh!t for smoking a joint or shooting up does not fall under that banner. Again, I don't agree with attacking the Gardai over that, it's ultimately the government's fault, but that is where most anti-Garda sentiment I've seen comes from. "F*ckin' pigs took my cans / 50 bag". The fact that it's DCC who legislated against drinking outdoors, and the national government who legislated against drug possession, doesn't seem to register.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 10-01-2016 12:32PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Gardaí do have authority over people. That's just a fact. It's enshrined in legislation. Is this something you dispute? Would you like me to post the various pieces of legislation which gives Gardaí authority to require people to do things?

Why you think that protecting people and having authority over people are mutually exclusive is beyond me.

And this misplaced authority is the reason for peoples ambivalence towards our police force.
I have lived in New York and the respect that the people have for the police is unbelievable compared to this country.
And it goes both ways as well. The police genuinely get on with the citizens. If they issue an order it is adhered to.
That doesn't happen through fear or "authority" it comes from respect which unfortunately the people of Ireland don't have for our police force.

Little CuChulainn · 10-01-2016 12:35PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'd be one of those people, but I think it's safe enough to say that there is now a fairly firm majority which does not believe in victimless crime, and as such believes that arrests for the possession of drugs for personal use is absolute bullsh!t.

Most people I know who have issues with police have issues with them for this reason and this reason alone. It's pretty unfair in my view, it's successive governments who should be blamed for legislating this and not the Gardai who have no choice but to enforce it.

As Turk said, the Gardai are here to protect us - giving people sh!t for smoking a joint or shooting up does not fall under that banner. Again, I don't agree with attacking the Gardai over that, it's ultimately the government's fault, but that is where most anti-Garda sentiment I've seen comes from. "F*ckin' pigs took my cans / 50 bag". The fact that it's DCC who legislated against drinking outdoors, and the national government who legislated against drug possession, doesn't seem to register.

People don't agree with victimless crimes when they commit them. There's plenty of victimless crimes would have very few defenders.

In any case, people get upset about the Gardaí taking their weed or booze but if you think that's where the hostility comes from I think you are mistaken.

For Forks Sake · 10-01-2016 12:37PM

Stop reading thejournal OP.

One eyed Jack · 10-01-2016 12:47PM

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

And this misplaced authority is the reason for peoples ambivalence towards our police force.
I have lived in New York and the respect that the people have for the police is unbelievable compared to this country.
And it goes both ways as well. The police genuinely get on with the citizens. If they issue an order it is adhered to.
That doesn't happen through fear or "authority" it comes from respect which unfortunately the people of Ireland don't have for our police force.

'Some people', would be a more accurate assessment. More people have great respect for the Gardai and they do great work with community groups, schools, volunteer organisations amongst others.

People don't particularly give two fcuks about some idiot who gives the Gardaí grief, who will be the same idiot crying for the protection of the Gardaí when it's them is on the receiving end - the people who want their own way both ways.

You're right - respect really isn't just a one way street.

Little CuChulainn · 10-01-2016 01:34PM

I'm reminded of this story. A man who thinks drink driving is a victimless crime gets hit by a drunk driver on his way home from monitoring a police checkpoint.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/a-cop-watcher-was-almost-killed-by-a-drunk-driver-after-surveilling-a-dwi-checkpoint-7139336

melissak · 10-01-2016 03:31PM

I think if the Gardai have time to be annoying people about weed we have very little crime and need less guards. It is beneath us all to prosecute people who are minding their own business and this turns people off the police. This is unfair to the officers. They need people's support to function and it must depress them to be tormenting hippies.
Their job is difficult enough without turning people against them.

Galwayguy35 · 10-01-2016 04:05PM

The only people I've seen say things like that are skangers, any article about the Gardaí always draws some of them in to give their views for some strange reason.

They really should learn to spell before commenting though.

hatrickpatrick · 10-01-2016 06:14PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

People don't agree with victimless crimes when they commit them. There's plenty of victimless crimes would have very few defenders.

Such as?

In any case, people get upset about the Gardaí taking their weed or booze but if you think that's where the hostility comes from I think you are mistaken.

Well as far as I can see, your average non-gangland, non-psycho citizen has only two reasons not to like the police:
1) Enforcement of killjoy laws
2) Enforcement of certain traffic laws

Given that many of the people I know who have anti-cop sentiments don't actually drive and aren't petty criminals, we can assume 1) is the main reason for their animosity, and under 1) fall
-enforcement of bans on various items
-enforcement of bans on certain activities
-enforcement of public order laws (noise complaints, public intoxication etc)

I can't see any other reasons for an average citizen (IE, neither a blue or white collar criminal) to hate the Gardai.

Personally I don't hate them for either of the above mentioned reasons because I trace the root of both issues to government legislation. You can't really blame somebody for doing their job even if you don't like their job, you have to blame those who actually give them their jobs, and in this case, that's those who legislate the laws of the land. But I reckon a lot of people don't really think about it that much, they just see "f*cking guards, everyone hide your cans" rather than "Guards enforcing f*cking DCC policies, screw the councillors".

If you know of other reasons for an average citizen to have a beef with the cops apart from traffic and public order enforcement, what are they? Most people I know never have any interactions with the Gardai at all except in those two categories. I know for myself anyway, as someone who doesn't drive on account of living beside a public transport hub, literally the only time I ever watch out for Gardai and hope not to encounter any is if I'm with a group on my way from a house party to a club, and I'm having a final beer on the walk from one to the other.

One eyed Jack · 10-01-2016 06:39PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If you know of other reasons for an average citizen to have a beef with the cops apart from traffic and public order enforcement, what are they?

Fundamental reason here:

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

At the heart of the issue it's a problem with authority. If it wasn't drugs it'd be drink, or car tax, or insurance. Many people just don't like when someone else has authority over them. They don't like being told what to do.

They're the type that think of the Gardaí as "killjoys", when what the Gardaí are actually doing is enforcing the laws that protect society. They aren't out to break anyone's balls, but often times you'll have people claiming the Gardaí were breaking their balls, until it turns out that the instigator of their own demise is the person crying foul who has a problem with anyone "spoiling their fun" or "infringing on their personal liberties"... :rolleyes:

Little CuChulainn · 10-01-2016 07:27PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Such as?

Well I suppose it depends on what you mean by victimless. Drink driving is a victimless crime in that there is no victim unless there is a crash. Most driving offences would fall under that heading really. Public order offences too. Liquor licensing would go there too.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well as far as I can see, your average non-gangland, non-psycho citizen has only two reasons not to like the police:
1) Enforcement of killjoy laws
2) Enforcement of certain traffic laws

Given that many of the people I know who have anti-cop sentiments don't actually drive and aren't petty criminals, we can assume 1) is the main reason for their animosity, and under 1) fall
-enforcement of bans on various items
-enforcement of bans on certain activities
-enforcement of public order laws (noise complaints, public intoxication etc)

I can't see any other reasons for an average citizen (IE, neither a blue or white collar criminal) to hate the Gardai.

Maybe your average 16 year old citizen would be justified in thinking like that but if you are an adult getting stroppy with the cops because they've told you to keep the noise down at a party then you're basically falling inot the category I described before, people who have a problem being told what to do in general.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Personally I don't hate them for either of the above mentioned reasons because I trace the root of both issues to government legislation. You can't really blame somebody for doing their job even if you don't like their job, you have to blame those who actually give them their jobs, and in this case, that's those who legislate the laws of the land. But I reckon a lot of people don't really think about it that much, they just see "f*cking guards, everyone hide your cans" rather than "Guards enforcing f*cking DCC policies, screw the councillors".

"Hide your cans"? Are we back to 16 year olds again?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If you know of other reasons for an average citizen to have a beef with the cops apart from traffic and public order enforcement, what are they? Most people I know never have any interactions with the Gardai at all except in those two categories. I know for myself anyway, as someone who doesn't drive on account of living beside a public transport hub, literally the only time I ever watch out for Gardai and hope not to encounter any is if I'm with a group on my way from a house party to a club, and I'm having a final beer on the walk from one to the other.

Right, so you and your friends have issues with the killjoy laws i.e. you don't like being told when you can and can't do something. And again we are back to issues with authority.

Greentopia · 10-01-2016 09:33PM

ACAB

melissak · 11-01-2016 01:45PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Fundamental reason here:

They're the type that think of the Gardaí as "killjoys", when what the Gardaí are actually doing is enforcing the laws that protect society. They aren't out to break anyone's balls, but often times you'll have people claiming the Gardaí were breaking their balls, until it turns out that the instigator of their own demise is the person crying foul who has a problem with anyone "spoiling their fun" or "infringing on their personal liberties"... :rolleyes:

Killjoy laws or creeping totalitarianism trying to morally police us now that the Catholic Church have lost their hold?
I remember an overzealous young guard giving out to a friend for singing at a village music festiva, he was no Pavarotti tbh but not bothering anyone, While two lads were battering the heads off each other across the road...

One eyed Jack · 11-01-2016 01:57PM

melissak wrote: »

Killjoy laws or creeping totalitarianism trying to morally police us now that the Catholic Church have lost their hold?
I remember an overzealous young guard giving out to a friend for singing at a village music festiva, he was no Pavarotti tbh but not bothering anyone, While two lads were battering the heads off each other across the road...

One Garda is hardly representative of rank and file Gardaí in fairness, I don't think anyone could realistically call the job they do 'creeping totalitarianism'. That would take a lot more than just a handful of personal anecdotes before it could be taken seriously.

melissak · 11-01-2016 04:05PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

One Garda is hardly representative of rank and file Gardaí in fairness, I don't think anyone could realistically call the job they do 'creeping totalitarianism'. That would take a lot more than just a handful of personal anecdotes before it could be taken seriously.

Not the Guards themselves. They are just doing their jobs. My issue would be with the people who make these laws and force the officers to waste their time enforcing them. It undermines their position and makes people who are not a danger to society not cooperate with the police. This can seriously hamper them when they are investigating actual crimes imo.

I hate the pigs mentality

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