The Hazards of Belief

Shrap · 05-01-2016 06:40PM

robindch wrote: »

Unfortunately, the internet is not taking them seriously, especially since they issued a request for sympathizers to deliver "snacks" to the building, briefly causing the splendid tags #YallQaeda and #YeeHawd to trend briefly:

I am also quite loving #YokelHaram and #VanillaISIS

Nodin · 06-01-2016 04:23AM

robindch wrote: »

Have been out of town for a few days and am just catching up here and elsewhere - did this story get posted?

Anyhow, a few days back, a group of armed Mormon nutters in Oregon took control of the unoccupied visitors center at a US wildlife refuge in protest at a long-running dispute over poaching on federal land.

They seem to have been joined by a non-Mormon nutter, presumably for unbalanced "balance"
https://subscribe.washingtonpost.com/acquisitionweb/#/paywall/offers/promo/digital03_paywall/oscode/RPWH?wpsrc=CM0000446

recedite · 06-01-2016 12:54PM

Ranchers don't like fences. Did you never watch any of the old cowboy movies?
Somebody gonna get a belly full of lead.

Nodin · 06-01-2016 04:43PM

Evidently somebody felt there was a John Waters sized hole at the Times and the bould Breda "I crie every time" O'Brien wasn't filling it.

Many atheists long for the disappearance of religion and spirituality from
the public domain, as evidenced by the current, heated debate over school
patronage. I, however, am not one of them. For all its faults, the Catholic
Church is one of the only institutions in Irish society that talks about
fundamental values, meaning and human purpose.

On top of that, it promotes an egalitarian ethic that is
highly commendable in both ambition and scope. The command to “love your neighbour as yourself” sets a moral benchmark for Christians that, despite bordering on the unattainable, is nonetheless capable of inspiring benevolence in its adherents.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/joe-humphreys-why-irish-atheists-still-need-the-catholic-church-1.2485820

That must be why all the lay members have such input, and how women now comprise 50% of the college of cardinals in honour of their place in the church establishment.

To tackle them, we need to work together in a manner never envisaged before. We need to be able to put universal, humanitarian interests ahead of national, local or denominational ones. Progressive religions aren’t the only means of creating communities that transcend national borders but they are potentially a key part of a conscientious, global network.

There is always the possibility that the article was posted at some stage in the future, when Catholicism has gone all hippy and has made it back here through some time warp....

'Let's improve conditions for women in Latin America'
'O that's a great idea. We can use the churches network to spread health information and advice with things like contraception, can't we Father'

PopePalpatine · 06-01-2016 05:34PM

A Spanish Archbishop has blamed domestic violence on wives' "disobedience": http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/fury-archbishop-says-domestic-violence-7128881#ICID=sharebar_twitter

The poor thing, it must be hard adjusting to a post-Franco Spain.

Pherekydes · 06-01-2016 06:13PM

Nodin wrote: »

Evidently somebody felt there was a John Waters sized hole at the Times and the bould Breda "I crie every time" O'Brien wasn't filling it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/joe-humphreys-why-irish-atheists-still-need-the-catholic-church-1.2485820

That must be why all the lay members have such input, and how women now comprise 50% of the college of cardinals in honour of their place in the church establishment.

There is always the possibility that the article was posted at some stage in the future, when Catholicism has gone all hippy and has made it back here through some time warp....

'Let's improve conditions for women in Latin America'
'O that's a great idea. We can use the churches network to spread health information and advice with things like contraception, can't we Father'

Humphries is on the Right Wing Hook right now.

Shrap · 06-01-2016 06:47PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Humphries is on the Right Wing Hook right now.

What a tit. I tuned out and concentrated on my wordfeud game tbh. A combination of Hook doing the "atheists are such ungrateful moaners" (from him, like :rolleyes: ) and this yoke agreeing away was too much for me.

Hotblack Desiato · 06-01-2016 10:33PM

Like Watery he also has a beef with people pseudonymously expressing their opinions on the internet. Figures.

The entire article is guff built on a false premise. Atheists do not need the RCC. Nobody in Ireland needs the RCC and we'd all be immeasurably better off if they'd never set foot here.

You can't bring society together using a club that most people no longer want to be members of, some people are not let be members of, and those who are still members don't go to meetings.

PopePalpatine · 07-01-2016 12:52AM

Let me guess - Humphreys wasn't up against a secularist for "balance". Funny how that's only given when the religious right requests it...:/

robindch · 07-01-2016 04:48AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

[...] a club that most people no longer want to be members of, some people are not let be members of, and those who are still members don't go to meetings.

A rather good description, to which I would add "and a club whose rules are a mystery to all but a few and which are therefore ignored by most".

robindch · 08-01-2016 03:15PM

Nodin wrote: »

They seem to have been joined by a non-Mormon nutter, presumably for unbalanced "balance"

Seems their illegal activities have riled the placid and unassuming bird-watching community:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/01/05/1466254/-Warning-from-the-Birding-Community-to-the-Terrorists-in-Oregon-We-re-Watching-You
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/01/05/40-million-badss-birders-just-declared-war-on-oregon-terrorists/

recedite · 09-01-2016 02:45PM

These are people who are likely to be far more familiar with the local terrain than the armed lunatics who seized the wildlife refuge. They’re people who have spent countless hours hiking those trails, getting to know every nook and cranny of the wilderness. They’re also people who have the kind of patience it takes to remain totally still for long periods of time, and to mask their presence so that not even a wild animal can detect it.

Pretty sure the ranchers are quaking in their cowboy boots right now

Even militant atheists are actually quite intimidating compared to militant birdwatchers.

robindch · 10-01-2016 01:21AM

Things are not happy down the Visitors' Center. In the absence of snacks, some of the brave patriots seem to have been spotted eating at local eateries while others are staying in local hotels. There has also been plausible reports that some of the "ex-marines" are unknown to the US Army and that at least some of the money collected to sustain the patriots was taken to a bar and converted into beer:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/tearful-militant-discovers-friend-drank-away-donation-money-its-like-finding-out-there-is-no-such-thing-as-santa/

silverharp · 10-01-2016 06:22PM

anyone ever meet a Somethingist ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SSkce2UDog

Shrap · 10-01-2016 06:51PM

silverharp wrote: »

anyone ever meet a Somethingist ?

Oh boy, yeah. Shed loads of them. I'm surrounded by people who "don't believe in god, but there IS something" where I live. They are profoundly irritating to me and often tell me I'm closed minded because I refuse to promote their dodgy qualification in craniosacral massage or reiki or some other hand-wavey sh1te. Angels are a bit of a favourite too, although these folks don't seem to like it when you ask how they believe in angels but not god. Sigh. I prefer the company of Catholics tbh. Less hand-wavey.

silverharp · 10-01-2016 07:42PM

Shrap wrote: »

Oh boy, yeah. Shed loads of them. I'm surrounded by people who "don't believe in god, but there IS something" where I live. They are profoundly irritating to me and often tell me I'm closed minded because I refuse to promote their dodgy qualification in craniosacral massage or reiki or some other hand-wavey sh1te. Angels are a bit of a favourite too, although these folks don't seem to like it when you ask how they believe in angels but not god. Sigh. I prefer the company of Catholics tbh. Less hand-wavey.

I can almost see your eyes rolling :pac: when you think that guys like deepak chopra can be globally known down to "Betty" down the road that has the second sight....

Shrap · 10-01-2016 09:47PM

silverharp wrote: »

I can almost see your eyes rolling :pac:

Oh stop, yes - I have to put a restraining order on them to keep them in my head at all :rolleyes:

I do honestly try my hardest in company where there's someone banging on about spirits/energy/random drivel not to open my mouth and say "Bollox" loudly, but it rarely works out well. Think Tim Minchin's "Storm", only not so lyrical.

I'm so anti-fluffy at this point that if I ever see another "fairy" product by any craft-working friends, I swear I'll construct a "fairy hell" as an antidote, complete with "fairy torture devices".

Hotblack Desiato · 11-01-2016 12:01AM

I thought I was the only person who secretly dreamed of taking those f**king 'fairy doors' and bashing the smug idiot purchasers around the head with them.

looksee · 11-01-2016 07:30AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I thought I was the only person who secretly dreamed of taking those f**king 'fairy doors' and bashing the smug idiot purchasers around the head with them.

Ah come on, the kids love them, and its a great way to get them walking along a local scenic path without complaining (I suppose scenery is less scenic at knee height). I like the home made ones though, rather than the prepacked.

Shrap · 11-01-2016 10:30AM

looksee wrote: »

Ah come on, the kids love them, and its a great way to get them walking along a local scenic path without complaining (I suppose scenery is less scenic at knee height). I like the home made ones though, rather than the prepacked.

You make a good point, but the pervasiveness of the cult of fairy is becoming the New Age replacement for Barbie and her plastic entourage. Ew. I suppose I'm a bit jaundiced as I see more of it than most adults, knowing a good few people making twee fairy houses/doors/gardens etc.

I'm probably a bit stupid not to jump on the bandwagon really. I could make a fortune churning out fairy themed garden products

silverharp · 11-01-2016 10:49AM

I'm glad to say I have no idea what ye are talking about.

TheChizler · 11-01-2016 11:39AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I thought I was the only person who secretly dreamed of taking those f**king 'fairy doors' and bashing the smug idiot purchasers around the head with them.

Are these a thing now? I thought it was just for kids!

Nodin · 11-01-2016 12:19PM

Shrap wrote: »

Oh boy, yeah. Shed loads of them. I'm surrounded by people who "don't believe in god, but there IS something" where I live. They are profoundly irritating to me and often tell me I'm closed minded because I refuse to promote their dodgy qualification in craniosacral massage or reiki or some other hand-wavey sh1te. Angels are a bit of a favourite too, although these folks don't seem to like it when you ask how they believe in angels but not god. Sigh. I prefer the company of Catholics tbh. Less hand-wavey.

Paraphrase of an actual conversation. Which one is me can be guessed at.

'Ye know the massage might do ye good'
'Wha?'
'Herself does the massage'
'O.................................nah, wouldn't be comfortable with that, hands on and all.....'
'Ahh don't worry about that - there's no touchin'
'yefuckenwha?'

Nodin · 11-01-2016 12:22PM

Shrap wrote: »

You make a good point, but the pervasiveness of the cult of fairy is becoming the New Age replacement for Barbie and her plastic entourage. Ew. I suppose I'm a bit jaundiced as I see more of it than most adults, knowing a good few people making twee fairy houses/doors/gardens etc.

I'm probably a bit stupid not to jump on the bandwagon really. I could make a fortune churning out fairy themed garden products

What happened to the scare inducing irish fairy? These are foreign fairys destroyin our way of life. My ancestors didn't drown some fecker in a bog so they could put doors in trees or something.....

Shrap · 11-01-2016 12:45PM

Nodin wrote: »

What happened to the scare inducing irish fairy? These are foreign fairys destroyin our way of life. My ancestors didn't drown some fecker in a bog so they could put doors in trees or something.....

I quite agree, and don't worry, I'm bringing them back....

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/734084/374524.JPG

Nodin · 11-01-2016 03:33PM

Nodin wrote: »

Paraphrase of an actual conversation. Which one is me can be guessed at.

'Ye know the massage might do ye good'
'Wha?'
'Herself does the massage'
'O.................................nah, wouldn't be comfortable with that, hands on and all.....'
'Ahh don't worry about that - there's no touchin'
'yefuckenwha?'

She was into this one as well, now that I think on it....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Meera

".............she accepts all denominations." according to wiki, which is probably true on a number of levels.

recedite · 11-01-2016 09:36PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I thought I was the only person who secretly dreamed of taking those f**king 'fairy doors' and bashing the smug idiot purchasers around the head with them.

People who buy/make hobbit doors are invariably much more sane, even though its more or less the same piece of carpentry. I suppose for the hobbit people its enjoying fantasy while knowing its fantasy, but for the fairy folk there is always that suggestion that it could be true, if only they can believe hard enough.

kylith · 11-01-2016 10:19PM

looksee wrote: »

Ah come on, the kids love them, and its a great way to get them walking along a local scenic path without complaining (I suppose scenery is less scenic at knee height). I like the home made ones though, rather than the prepacked.

A few parks have had to put up designated 'fairy trees' to stop people from nailing the frigging things to every tree in the place.

robindch · 13-01-2016 05:50PM

Seems the internet is providing our favourite patriots with... well, read and see:

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/the-oregon-terrorists-are-really-angry-that-people-keeping-sending-them-dildos-in-the-mail--Z1WWZ6b83e

I sense that this may end with more of a fizzle than a bang, even a self-administered one.

silverharp · 16-01-2016 10:15AM

Bill aiming to ban child marriages in Pakisatan shot down

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down/

ISLAMABAD:
Another move to ban child marriages in Pakistan has fallen at the first hurdle. The bill to prohibit underage marriages has been withdrawn after the Council of Islamic Ideology (CII) declared it un-Islamic.

The ruling party lawmaker, who moved the bill, withdrew her proposal on Thursday following staunch resistance from the council, which advises the legislature whether or not a certain law is Sharia-compliant.

Child marriage restraint bill : Activists lash out at govt for preparing flawed draft

The National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Religious Affairs and Interfaith Harmony rejected the Child Marriage Restraint (Amendment) Bill 2014 after the CII dubbed it ‘anti-Islamic’ and ‘blasphemous’.

The committee meeting, which was presided over by its Chairman Hafiz Abdul Karim, unanimously rejected the bill on ‘purely religious grounds’. Afterwards, PML-N’s Marvi Memon also withdrew her proposal.

The proposed legislation had recommended harsher punishments for those entering conjugal contracts with minors.

Last week, lawmakers in the Gilgit-Baltistan Assembly had also blocked a bill seeking ban on child marriages over similar concerns.

Of child marriages and medieval mindsets

The CII has already ruled the minimum age stipulated for marriage in the Child Marriages Restriction Act of 1929 does not comply with Islamic laws.

In May 2014, amid severe criticism from various quarters, the council had endorsed its earlier ruling that girls as young as nine years old were eligible to be married “if the signs of puberty are visible”.

About two years ago, CII Chairman Mohammad Khan Sheerani told the National Assembly that the council had given its recommendations over the suggested law and this should not have been discussed anymore.

He made these comments after Marvi had introduced the bill seeking amendments in the marriage act. The bill was then backed by MNAs Asiya Naz Tanoli, Muhammad Pervaiz Malik and Shaista Pervaiz.

Sheerani had opposed the proposed amendments, saying they were contrary to Islamic teachings and laws.

Opposition to anti-child marriage bill

“Parliament cannot create legislation that is against the teachings of the Holy Quran or Sunnah,” he had said while backing his arguments with relevant laws and a few references from the Holy Quran and Hadith.

According to Islamic laws, marriage can be solemnised when a girl attains puberty, Sheerani claimed. Under the Constitution, the CII chairman is the final authority in the council with the choice to overrule the voice of all members. While the CII’s decisions are not binding on parliament, they are treated as the guiding principles to frame laws.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 15th, 2016.

The Hazards of Belief

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