Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Lord Trollington · 03-01-2016 12:41AM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

I do wonder if crushing the Rav 4 would have drawn more attention to Avery, surely you can't dispose of a car 100%, the crushed remains and probably only a few people able to operate the equipment on the site would be more conclusive in pointing at him than leaving it intact. So not sure about the non-crushing being used as backing Avery.

The Averys are in the auto business and anyone in it knows how to dispose of a car.

That car could have been stripped, crushed and sold to other scrap metal dealers within a day and would never ever ever have been seen again.

I'm still wouldn't put my house on his innocence or guilt and that alone should mean a not guilty virdict

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 03-01-2016 01:12AM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

I've seen all but 3, The Imposter is insane, far stranger than fiction. Highly recommend that one.

Yeah, The Imposter is fantastic.

daisybelle2008 · 03-01-2016 01:19AM

Elmo wrote: »

Why not burn the car? why keep it on your property? AFAIK know both phone and camera were burnt, why not the car? Was the car found with its licence plates? Why not remove them? A car in a scrap yard would go unnoticed with a whole load of other cars. Why not wash out the car? Considering you supposedly immaculately cleaned the murder scene.

I am still not sure any of the pieces fit together

1. The Key, IMO might have been a plant
2. The Bloodied Bullet, IMO might have been a plant
3. His blood in the car also might have been a plant
4. The car could have easily been moved
5. The body? I am not so sure, this seems like the biggest job, unless it was burnt before it was planted.

Those are the 5 pieces of physical evidence against Steve Avery.

Few things I'm confused about.

I thought his DNA was under her car hood?
How far is the fire pit that her remains and personal effects were found from Avery's trailer?
Was Dassey the only one at the burning? Avery had invited people to a bonfire?
Surely a human body is not easy to burn and would give off a very strong smell?

Elmo · 03-01-2016 01:30AM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

Few things I'm confused about.

I thought his DNA was under her car hood?
How far is the fire pit that her remains and personal effects were found from Avery's trailer?
Was Dassey the only one at the burning? Avery had invited people to a bonfire?
Surely a human body is not easy to burn and would give off a very strong smell?

His blood was found on the dashboard by the ignition and also under the bonnet.

Not far from what I gather it is in his garden.

I don't necessarily think it was a Halloween Bonfire in the way that we would have them, I think it was part of their work.

marklazarcovic · 03-01-2016 01:32AM

with the remains being found in 3 separate locations to me it seems she was burned in the quarry,and the remains put in the burn barrel and then put in the fire pit,but they left a few behind in the quarry,and in the barrel..

otherwise it means someone took some and put them in the quarry,the bits found were very small so easy miss some

marklazarcovic · 03-01-2016 01:33AM

Elmo wrote: »

His blood was found on the dashboard by the ignition and also under the bonnet.

Not far from what I gather it is in his garden.

I don't necessarily think it was a Halloween Bonfire in the way that we would have them, I think it was part of their work.

it was actually dried sweat they claim was under the bonnet

Crimsonforce · 03-01-2016 01:41AM

Ken kratz was and is a creep.
His first lawyer , Len is extra weird

The simple fact is that both steven and Brendan were simply not smart enough to carry out something like this..

However now with this being on Netflix, I suspect some hot shot lawyer will come to their aid and help..

northgirl · 03-01-2016 01:47AM

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Ken kratz was and is a creep.
His first lawyer , Len is extra weird

The simple fact is that both steven and Brendan were simply not smart enough to carry out something like this..

However now with this being on Netflix, I suspect some hot shot lawyer will come to their aid and help..

Was just googling Ken Kratz a few minutes ago cause he creeped me out so much. See he was involved in a sexting scandal which resulted in his resignation and later admitted to prescription drug abuse and sexual addiction treatment.

Thelomen Toblackai · 03-01-2016 01:53AM

Elmo wrote: »

His blood was found on the dashboard by the ignition and also under the bonnet.

Not far from what I gather it is in his garden.

I don't necessarily think it was a Halloween Bonfire in the way that we would have them, I think it was part of their work.

The blood was found in 6 places inside the vehicle and it was sweat found under the hood latch.

Crimsonforce · 03-01-2016 01:56AM

northgirl wrote: »

Was just googling Ken Kratz a few minutes ago cause he creeped me out so much. See he was involved in a sexting scandal which resulted in his resignation and later admitted to prescription drug abuse and sexual addiction treatment.

His emails to the dept of justice were the most daming. He said he wouldn't like to " embarrass" the dept if they fired him, esp about the steven avery case.

Thelomen Toblackai · 03-01-2016 01:58AM

northgirl wrote: »

Was just googling Ken Kratz a few minutes ago cause he creeped me out so much. See he was involved in a sexting scandal which resulted in his resignation and later admitted to prescription drug abuse and sexual addiction treatment.

That's all in the final episode.

daisybelle2008 · 03-01-2016 02:02AM

marklazarcovic wrote: »

with the remains being found in 3 separate locations to me it seems she was burned in the quarry,and the remains put in the burn barrel and then put in the fire pit,but they left a few behind in the quarry,and in the barrel..

otherwise it means someone took some and put them in the quarry,the bits found were very small so easy miss some

I thought the quarry bones were not conclusively Halbachs (or even human). I'm confused about the Janda Barrel and the Avery fire pit, her personal effects and bones were found burnt and intertwined with other material in both locations and Avery had a bonfire in the pit that evening.. How could someone have planted her body and stuff there without him noticing? How would you not notice a body in your own fire pit. The planting seems so far fetched and elaborate for the Murderer (if it wasnt Avery) or the police to execute.

fin12 · 03-01-2016 02:06AM

That staircase documentary was in Forensic files, was an episode in it, I haven't watched the documentary but I'm going to but after watching the episode in Forensic Files, I believe he was definetly guilty, the guy went out to smoke a cigarette for 45 minutes on a freezing cold night????????
Its called a novel idea, the episode.

And he killed another woman in Germany 16 years before killing his wife.

Taboola · 03-01-2016 02:13AM

Another thumbs up for The Imposter.

bridgettedon · 03-01-2016 02:14AM

I find this so intriguing yet disturbing at the same time.

Elmo · 03-01-2016 02:15AM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

I thought the quarry bones were not conclusively Halbachs (or even human). I'm confused about the Janda Barrel and the Avery fire pit, her personal effects and bones were found burnt and intertwined with other material in both locations and Avery had a bonfire in the pit that evening.. How could someone have planted her body and stuff there without him noticing? How would you not notice a body in your own fire pit. The planting seems so far fetched and elaborate for the Murderer or police to execute.

That is where the quarry comes in, if he was framed.

There is nothing to say that he didn't have a bonfire that night, AFAIK he did, but it doesn't mean that her burnt remains weren't burnt elsewhere and moved to the pit.

I think they were a human hip bone, though it was inconclusive that they were Halbachs.

Again if a frame occurred the barrel was used for the transport/possible burning of the body. some remains left at the quarry to look like there was an attempt to move them.

Snake Plisken · 03-01-2016 02:44AM

My suspects for the murder would be her housemate or the ex, one of her colleagues testified that she was getting a lot of nuisance calls and then the ex went into listen to and possibly delete messages when her mailbox was full.
Just want to say this is the best show on Netflix,
I do hope it leads to a retrial for the two of them!

daisybelle2008 · 03-01-2016 02:54AM

fin12 wrote: »

That staircase documentary was in Forensic files, was an episode in it, I haven't watched the documentary but I'm going to but after watching the episode in Forensic Files, I believe he was definetly guilty, the guy went out to smoke a cigarette for 45 minutes on a freezing cold night????????
Its called a novel idea, the episode.

And he killed another woman in Germany 16 years before killing his wife.

I think you should watch the documentary, there is no conclusive evidence he killed the woman in Germany or his wife for that matter.

Lights On · 03-01-2016 05:11AM

Just after finishing this, watched the first 5 episodes yesterday and the last 5 today. So many things I could write about it, but as it's still very fresh and I have some beers in me I'll wait until tomorrow to get it into words. All I'll say now is that it's easily the best documentary series I've ever seen, if not a bit too long, as well shot as it was it could have done without a lot of the scenery shots.

Sunflower 27 · 03-01-2016 07:21AM

Anyone know anything more about the comment that Scott was trying to sell a gun? It was kind of skimmed over. He looked very shocked when it was put to him and he denied that being true.But clearly someone had told that to the defence.

If he was attempting to offload one of the dassey boys' guns, the same type of gun the bullet came from, it is suspicious I think.

The changing of the height of the fire flames is something else as well that is suspect. 3ft to 10ft. Maybe he was aware people were doubting she was burned just there and were thinking there was another location and he wanted to make out that was not the case by suggesting it was a far bigger fire than it was.

I still can't fathom why Steven would try and burn Teresa metres from his house, ensuring he would be prime suspect.

I agree with the poster that said there would have had to be a very odd smell. Surely those at the fire would have commented if they smelt something they had never smelt at a bonfire before. And it didn't sound like a bonfire was a rare occurrence on the property.

Edit: a quick search online found that burning flesh is a very distinctive, strong and unpleasant smell that is not something easily forgotten.
There are some very vivid descriptions online.

Teresa's blood in the van suggests she was moved somewhere in her van and then burned. The bonfire then became the perfect place to put remains. Almost a godsend to someone afraid of the bones being found anywhere else. No one smelt her body burning, and her remains are there. I do believe she was moved.

No-one saw Scott for hours that evening.

Rossi IRL · 03-01-2016 08:40AM

Just watched the 10 episodes there from start to finish.

I dont know how he was found guilty, where was the blood or the bleach?

Have to remember that we are only seeing this from mostly the Avery side but it does seem like he was framed.

I can see either outcome being true.

Anachrony · 03-01-2016 12:22PM

Rossi IRL wrote: »

I can see either outcome being true.

I think it could go either way in terms of who killed her. Those other possible suspects that the police never bothered to investigate seem awfully suspicious, and seem to have done some shady things around the time of her death. But Steven Avery also seems to have a worse history than what the series represented, so it's not like the community didn't have a reason to mistrust him.

But it seems almost certain that if Steven Avery killed her, it didn't happen the way the prosecutor argued. And I think even he knew it was BS. He was clearly more focused on getting a win by any means than on getting truth or justice. Even if he did it, the county deputies acted extremely inappropriately, and almost certainly tried to frame him with some of their misconduct. Maybe they decided from the start that he must be guilty and in their mind they were doing a good thing creating false evidence, but that's not their job, and if they were wrong they ensured that the actual killer wouldn't be punished.

Tefral · 03-01-2016 12:28PM

I wonder was he next in line to take over the family business?

I still cant understand the motivation for the family to frame him

daisybelle2008 · 03-01-2016 01:38PM

Elmo wrote: »

That is where the quarry comes in, if he was framed.

There is nothing to say that he didn't have a bonfire that night, AFAIK he did, but it doesn't mean that her burnt remains weren't burnt elsewhere and moved to the pit.

I think they were a human hip bone, though it was inconclusive that they were Halbachs.

Again if a frame occurred the barrel was used for the transport/possible burning of the body. some remains left at the quarry to look like there was an attempt to move them.

Is the theory then that her remains were burnt and removed from the quarry and put in Avery's fire pit after his bonfire on the night of her disappearance or maybe before the bonfire?
How long would it take for it to cool down to be in a transportable state? Moving a piping hot barrell would not be easy work and then decanting into a fire pit and putting the barrell back?

I guess I am finding it a massive stretch to beleive anyone could have done that, with Avery right there the whole time. It's such a messy arduous task to do covertly.

Rayne Wooney · 03-01-2016 01:42PM

It's strange that not much emphasis was put on the bones found in the quarry, maybe the prosecutors argued it away and the documentary makers didn't put it in

If you think the body was burned in the quarry then moved to the fire pit the burn barrel used would indicate it had to have been one of the family or someone close

Sunflower 27 · 03-01-2016 02:02PM

cronin_j wrote: »

I wonder was he next in line to take over the family business?

I still cant understand the motivation for the family to frame him

One motivation is they wanted Avery to take the blame to protect someone else. Bobby or Scott maybe?

Those two can only alibi each other.

Is Brendan protecting them? Is that why he said it was his uncle that murdered Teresa?

Obviously speculation

fin12 · 03-01-2016 02:08PM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

I think you should watch the documentary, there is no conclusive evidence he killed the woman in Germany or his wife for that matter.

I am watching it, but

just because the cops screw up with the evidence does not mean he is innocent look at the OJ Simpson case, everybody knows he was guilty, anyway I just find that fact that the same man is the last person to see two women alive who both end up dead at the bottom of a stairs and he is on one women's will and the other on her life insurance policy and also kathleen was laying dying for hours because when the paramedics came the blood on the walls was completely dry, I think he is as guilty as sin, cops tampering with evidence can convict innocent but can also lead to guilty people getting off as well

.

Sunflower 27 · 03-01-2016 02:09PM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

Is the theory then that her remains were burnt and removed from the quarry and put in Avery's fire pit after his bonfire on the night of her disappearance or maybe before the bonfire?
How long would it take for it to cool down to be in a transportable state? Moving a piping hot barrell would not be easy work and then decanting into a fire pit and putting the barrell back?

I guess I am finding it a massive stretch to beleive anyone could have done that, with Avery right there the whole time. It's such a messy arduous task to do covertly.

The body couldnt have been burnt at the bonfire. If it was all there would have smelt burning flesh.

Scott made a point of saying it was a huge fire. He said 3 foot high initially and then on the stand said '8 to 10, it was 10 foot'. Make people think a body was in it?

Sunflower 27 · 03-01-2016 02:20PM

fin12 wrote: »

I am watching it, but
just because the cops screw up with the evidence does not mean he is innocent look at the OJ Simpson case, everybody knows he was guilty, anyway I just find that fact that the same man is the last person to see two women alive who both end up dead at the bottom of a stairs and he is on one women's will and the other on her life insurance policy and also kathleen was laying dying for hours because when the paramedics came the blood on the walls was completely dry, I think he is as guilty as sin, cops tampering with evidence can convict innocent but can also lead to guilty people getting off as well
.

But was he the last person to see her? If someone else killed her, they are the last person.

More mind boggling is that he would put her bones behind his house if she was burnt somewhere else? Why would be bring them back there? Unless he wanted to go back to prison.

marklazarcovic · 03-01-2016 02:22PM

Sunflower 27 wrote:

Scott made a point of saying it was a huge fire. He said 3 foot high initially and then on the stand said '8 to 10, it was 10 foot'. Make people think a body was in it?

I think he was coached after initial statement,there were a lot of people who wanted steven for this,a lot,..

I think the cop took advantage of finding the ladys car and remains in the quarry,and with the help of one or two others made it so it all pointed towards steven in order to get out of the huge bill they faced,and to get revenge for him getting out ,making them all look guilty from his conviction for the sexual assault that put him away for 18 years....

Which was a farce and where most of those involved in that were involved in this case too.

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

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