ratio of bench to dips

deadlybuzzman · 09-12-2015 11:04pm #1

I was talking to a guy with a monstrous bench and I was saying how crap my bench is (PR 110, currently probably 100)
He asked me a few questions and nothing gave any hints what was going wrong but he got really puzzled when I told him I'm knocking out sets of 5 on dips with 30kg plus 89kg BW.
My technique seems ok but technical flaws aside, in the same way there's an expected ratio between squat and deadlift, is there something similar for bench and dips?

Hanley · 09-12-2015 11:54pm

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

I was talking to a guy with a monstrous bench and I was saying how crap my bench is (PR 110, currently probably 100)
He asked me a few questions and nothing gave any hints what was going wrong but he got really puzzled when I told him I'm knocking out sets of 5 on dips with 30kg plus 89kg BW.
My technique seems ok but technical flaws aside, in the same way there's an expected ratio between squat and deadlift, is there something similar for bench and dips?

Why was he puzzled? Too weak or strong?

Mellor · 10-12-2015 1:01am

I imagine there's a strong co-relation between the two. Exact ratio probably depends on how upright you are plus the depth you hit. My first reaction was similar to Hanley's above, in that I'm not sure which way his expectations went.

I read before that weighted pullup should closely follow bench press. It sounded way off to me, but when I tested it, I managed more than expected. And it was pretty close to bench press once "arm weight" was discounted.

I imagine it might dips:bench ratio is a similar situation.

Transform · 10-12-2015 8:26am

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

I was talking to a guy with a monstrous bench and I was saying how crap my bench is (PR 110, currently probably 100)
He asked me a few questions and nothing gave any hints what was going wrong but he got really puzzled when I told him I'm knocking out sets of 5 on dips with 30kg plus 89kg BW.
My technique seems ok but technical flaws aside, in the same way there's an expected ratio between squat and deadlift, is there something similar for bench and dips?

triceps strength would be a factor and would be better reflected in close grip bench press strength which if your dip is strong and deep then you probably close grip bench very close to normal bench.

Not something i would personally worry about as i think shoulder health, upper back strength and overhead pressing strength is more important (unless you're a powerlifter).

El Horseboxo · 10-12-2015 8:34am

I gave up bench pressing with barbells in favor of weighted dips and using dumbbells. I hadn't barbell benched in over a year until recently when working out with a friend. I was surprised how easier it felt in the bottom of the lift from what I remembered. I just done 4 sets but I exceeded my expectations given the long lay off from them and easily matched the weight i was pushing before.

That said I haven't benched since and don't have any interest. Dips have given me a more rounded expanded look in the pecs. Could be coincidence but was a body part I struggled with previously. Anyways I'd imagine some ratio exists given how good the barbell bench went for me.

Transform · 10-12-2015 8:42am

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

I was talking to a guy with a monstrous bench and I was saying how crap my bench is (PR 110, currently probably 100)
He asked me a few questions and nothing gave any hints what was going wrong but he got really puzzled when I told him I'm knocking out sets of 5 on dips with 30kg plus 89kg BW.
My technique seems ok but technical flaws aside, in the same way there's an expected ratio between squat and deadlift, is there something similar for bench and dips?

btw 30kg in dips is a good weight but not an amazing weight.

50-70kg - for 2-5reps, we're talking great weight for a bloke but it again depends on what your shoulders can tolerate.

For me the dip now just functions as an assistance exercise to the muscle up

Mellor · 10-12-2015 8:53am

Transform wrote: »

btw 30kg in dips is a good weight but not an amazing weight.

50-70kg - for 2-5reps, we're talking great weight for a bloke but it again depends on what your shoulders can tolerate.

Is that relative to bodyweight or just in general.

Transform · 10-12-2015 9:09am

Mellor wrote: »

Is that relative to bodyweight or just in general.

i would say yes relative to body weight but heres what ive seen from experience

guys that weigh 72-78kg about 30kg for a few reps is a great weight
guys that weigh 78-86kg 40-50kg for a few reps is a great weight
guys that weigh 86-92kg 50-60kg for a few reps is a great weight

this all needs to be balanced out with very very strong capacity on weighted ring rows (at least 15-20kg for reps with body perfectly horizontal to the floor and feet on box or bench, back work linked here)

few months ago 75kg and im 40 next year (i only say that because of all these kids in their 20s thinking they're hot sh1t doing and looking whats actually quite average).

again though it really depends on goals and shoulder health trumps everything as dips can be very hard on shoulders

Mellor · 10-12-2015 9:25am

Transform wrote: »

i would say yes relative to body weight but heres what ive seen from experience

guys that weigh 72-78kg about 30kg for a few reps is a great weight
guys that weigh 78-86kg 40-50kg for a few reps is a great weight
guys that weigh 86-92kg 50-60kg for a few reps is a great weight

That's perfect. I've only just started weight dips. Higher reps at the minute, will up the weight soon.

Thud · 10-12-2015 10:06am

Transform wrote: »

few months ago 75kg and im 40 next year (i only say that because of all these kids in their 20s thinking they're hot sh1t doing and looking whats actually quite average).

T-shirt was in the wash again that day?

papu · 10-12-2015 10:48am

82kg BW 110 Kg bench and I got +40Kg on weighted dips for double earlier on in the week. But according to the Symmetric Strength website that's lower than it should be , It should be around 55kg x 2. Dipping has helped benching a little bit only, the carry over isn't the best I've found.

Transform · 10-12-2015 12:52pm

Thud wrote: »

T-shirt was in the wash again that day?

flexed and it fell off

JJayoo · 10-12-2015 4:45pm

Not all dips are created equal, some people have woeful ROM and some people have too much ROM

guile4582 · 10-12-2015 5:11pm

i am a bit concerned on my bench. I weigh 86kg and can only bench 70kg for 3 x 10 supersetted with deadlift of 3 x 10 140kg

i can do dips and press ups all day long

deadlybuzzman · 10-12-2015 6:27pm

Hanley wrote: »

Why was he puzzled? Too weak or strong?

He was puzzled that I couldn't bench more as my dips weren't all that far off his yet my bench was way way off. I've seen him T & G 180 and he'd dip 40 or 50kg for sets of 5

deadlybuzzman · 10-12-2015 6:31pm

Transform wrote: »

triceps strength would be a factor and would be better reflected in close grip bench press strength which if your dip is strong and deep then you probably close grip bench very close to normal bench.

Not something i would personally worry about as i think shoulder health, upper back strength and overhead pressing strength is more important (unless you're a powerlifter).

Yeah my close grip bench has always been close to my normal bench. I'm thinking of giving at least 1 competition a go and I'd prefer to not give away a load of my total with a bad bench when I've trained with guys my size and weight that I can live with on squat and deadlift and yet they're benching 30% more than me

deadlybuzzman · 10-12-2015 6:35pm

Transform wrote: »

i would say yes relative to body weight but heres what ive seen from experience

guys that weigh 72-78kg about 30kg for a few reps is a great weight
guys that weigh 78-86kg 40-50kg for a few reps is a great weight
guys that weigh 86-92kg 50-60kg for a few reps is a great weight

this all needs to be balanced out with very very strong capacity on weighted ring rows (at least 15-20kg for reps with body perfectly horizontal to the floor and feet on box or bench, back work linked here)

Yeah I read cube method and listened to a good bit of Brandon lily and I took on board what he said about back work so every pressing movement has a back movement after it.

few months ago 75kg and im 40 next year

Fresh faced backstard!

Transform · 10-12-2015 6:51pm

JJayoo wrote: »

Not all dips are created equal, some people have woeful ROM and some people have too much ROM

agree with this

Transform · 10-12-2015 6:52pm

guile4582 wrote: »

i am a bit concerned on my bench. I weigh 86kg and can only bench 70kg for 3 x 10 supersetted with deadlift of 3 x 10 140kg

i can do dips and press ups all day long

you aint going to get strong on such high rep ranges all the time

Mellor · 10-12-2015 10:45pm

guile4582 wrote: »

i am a bit concerned on my bench. I weigh 86kg and can only bench 70kg for 3 x 10 supersetted with deadlift of 3 x 10 140kg

i can do dips and press ups all day long

You are doing a high rep bench press, supersetted with high rep deadlifts. It's never going to be close to your max.
What's your bench press max?
And, how many reps is "all day long"?

Hanley · 10-12-2015 11:37pm

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

He was puzzled that I couldn't bench more as my dips weren't all that far off his yet my bench was way way off. I've seen him T & G 180 and he'd dip 40 or 50kg for sets of 5

Shoulda countered with "maybe you're just **** at dips"

And for anyone reading, I really like dips as assistance for my bench. But that as coz I've weak pecs and strong tris.

YMMV.

guile4582 · 12-12-2015 1:49pm

Mellor wrote: »

You are doing a high rep bench press, supersetted with high rep deadlifts. It's never going to be close to your max.
What's your bench press max?
And, how many reps is "all day long"?

dont know what max is as i train alone, but i am guessing 80kg for maybe 3

if i had a squatter perhaps 85/90 , hard to tell

Mellor · 16-12-2015 4:51am

guile4582 wrote: »

dont know what max is as i train alone, but i am guessing 80kg for maybe 3

if i had a squatter perhaps 85/90 , hard to tell

You could maybe hit an 86kg/bodyweight bench.
How man dips can you do?

guile4582 · 16-12-2015 11:58am

have made 80kg for 3 sets 5reps supersetted with 150kg deadlift for 5 reps

something to go on...

can do 15 dips per set with a 20kg db between legs, nice and slow good form

PowerToWait · 16-12-2015 1:36pm

Dip numbers sound very decent.

Mellor · 18-12-2015 2:10am

guile4582 wrote: »

have made 80kg for 3 sets 5reps supersetted with 150kg deadlift for 5 reps

something to go on...

can do 15 dips per set with a 20kg db between legs, nice and slow good form

My initial reaction to those numbers would be that you are maybe not going to full depth with the dips or maybe subconsciously holding your self back on bench press (as you train solo).

guile4582 · 18-12-2015 10:56am

Mellor wrote: »

My initial reaction to those numbers would be that you are maybe not going to full depth with the dips or maybe subconsciously holding your self back on bench press (as you train solo).

i am going full depth. one thing i do need to correct on occasion, is that i slightly tilt my upper body forward, engaging more chest

PowerToWait · 18-12-2015 5:27pm

Definitely something up as your weighted dips are a good bit ahead of mine, but me bench is a good bit ahead of you. Get a spot and do it right to have a see.

Mellor · 29-12-2015 9:55pm

Mellor wrote: »

That's perfect. I've only just started weight dips. Higher reps at the minute, will up the weight soon.

Got around to testing these.
+25kg x 5, +30kg x 3, +35kg x 2
+40kg x 1
@76kg bodyweight

The 5/3/2's were submax. It's not 70kg, but I have something to aim for now

Hanley · 30-12-2015 2:46pm

I did 35kg x9 @ 103kg a couple of weeks ago. Coulda bashed out a couple more too.

Relative my bench, I'd probably do 145x5 or 150x3 max effort.

ratio of bench to dips

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