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Garda 'who lost her ambition due to PTSD awarded €75,000

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Comments

  • #32
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,715 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Paulzx wrote: »
    Why? Are Guards lesser citizens of the state than the rest of us?

    Yes, that's totally what I was driving at. Glad to meet with reasonable interpretations of posts on AH, as always.

    No, not because they are lesser citizens but because the nature of their work means they are likely over the course of a career to be involved in physical confrontations of this nature. I'm surprised they receive compensation for it quite frankly.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    There are a number of ways they could remove the risk of their members being assaulted, they already implement many risk reduction procedures. It's only unfortunate that it takes cases like this to make them review procedures is all.

    I don't think the risk could ever be fully removed is my point though. If the procedures were not implemented, not up to date with international standards or what have you then I could understand having a case alright.


  • #33
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Wilder Red Vinyl wrote: »
    Our Gardaí are already too soft and I would be worried that this sets a precedence for compensation claims left, right and centre.

    Implying that they need to 'harden up' and accept that 'these things happen from time to time' sets a far worse precedent.


  • #34
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It's gotten rediculous the amount of claims been taken by gardai for PTSD ,
    It's the new army deafness story .

    The word should be kept out of civil cases except if it's a sever form and backed up by expert diagnosis
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #35
    sonny.knowles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭sonny.knowles


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Yeah I was thinking if she got that for just losing her ambition then I'm in for a windfall!

    Surprised you had ambition to start with.


  • #36
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Hoe about bar staff or shop staff that attacked?


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  • #37
    PaddyWilliams
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭PaddyWilliams


    I had 2 fellas dance on my head for the guts of ten minutes.. 9 of those minutes while I was unconscious. The Gardaí weren't so quick to chase those boys down though and the end result was they got away with it. €75,000.. I wish I'd even got €75.00 for my injuries!


  • #38
    bigroad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭bigroad


    She should get a steel nose fitted for the next time it happens,or maybe find a different profession as the one she is in doesnt seem to suit her.


  • #39
    Wilder Red Vinyl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ Wilder Red Vinyl


    How does 'hardening up' set a far worse precedent?
    RayM wrote: »
    Implying that they need to 'harden up' and accept that 'these things happen from time to time' sets a far worse precedent.


  • #40
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,651 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    I don't think the risk could ever be fully removed is my point though. If the procedures were not implemented, not up to date with international standards or what have you then I could understand having a case alright.


    I'll be honest, I don't know what procedures are in place already for escorting people to and from Garda stations, prisons, etc, but I know that assaults and attempted assaults are all too common unfortunately, and as someone mentioned above, there are 900 cases pending at the moment, so there's definitely an issue there that needs to be addressed. I agree with you that assaults on Gardai will likely never be eliminated, but certainly procedures could be reviewed to reduce the risk of harm to Gardaí in carrying out their duties.


  • #41
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Wilder Red Vinyl wrote: »
    How does 'hardening up' set a far worse precedent?

    It implies that any Garda who can't take a serious physical assault in their workplace without it affecting them afterwards shouldn't be in the job.


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  • #42
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Garda ptsd Awarded €390,000

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-garda-sergeant-awarded-390k-compensation-for-severe-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-31088093.html

    Garda ptsd awarded €50,000

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/garda-sergeant-who-suffered-ptsd-after-siege-awarded-50-000-1.2124415

    Garda ptsd awarded € 170,000

    http://m.rte.ie/news/2014/1208/665498-thomas-mansfield-court/

    Garda awarded €102,000

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/compensation-of-102000-for-garda-assaulted-while-making-an-arrest-29022814.html
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #43
    LiamoSail
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭LiamoSail


    Feel sorry for the lady, nobody should have to go through such an ordeal.

    I'm a bit torn however on her being awarded compensation. As a Garda, she voluntarily entered a job that had the potential to put her in such situations. Obviously Garda shouldn't be assaulted, but I'd have thought it to be considered an occupational hazard.

    Secondly, why was the state liable? She should of course be within her right to sue the attacker, but I fail to see how the state is liable. If you chose to work in the front line, you know the risks. I don't believe the state should be held liable for these risks materialising in an assault, unless of course negligence was proven on their part


  • #44
    Homer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Homer


    Guards like those posted above are milking the system and doing a serious disservice to the majority of hard working decent guards that wouldn't look for financial gain from relatively minor injuries sustained in the line of duty.


  • #45
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    She should learn transcendental meditation to deal with PTSD. Better still the TM technique should be taught to all Gardai.

    http://news.yahoo.com/hum-guns-rios-elite-police-meditate-peace-mind-161737158--oly.html?soc_src=mediacontentsharebuttons&soc_trk=fb


  • #46
    JPCN1
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    Should you remain in the Gards if you have PTSD?

    Not talking about this case, but in general, IF the big carrot of money was not an option I feel we'd see a whole lot less of this.


  • #47
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    Petitioning for thread title change to 'pig with snout in the trough'


















    *runs*












    *trips*














    *sues boards*


  • #48
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Paulzx wrote: »
    No one, doing any job should be in a position whereby being assaulted is a normal part of their job. Inherant risks are one thing but considering it acceptable is another.
    YOu don't have to accept the assault as part of the job, but you do have to accept that you might get assaulted at some stage because of the job. It's not surprising that a guard would get assaulted given who they deal with.


    The article doesn't really give much information. Like what did the state do wrong? I can accept that if there were no procedures in place and the guards are just winging it, then the state is responsible for not taking any precautions to protect our guards. If there are procedures in place that were ignored, then it's the state's fault. I think a guard should be compensated for medical bills incurred by the job. But this just seems like rewarding someone because something bad happened to them, and it seems like the woman in question maybe didn't have the constitution for the job. Guards have to deal with horrible people that will do horrible things. The guards put themselves in positions we wouldn't want to be in, that takes a special kind of person. I know I'm not that kind of person so I'm not judging anyone.


  • #49
    Ally Dick
    Registered Users Posts: 12,665 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    A bit like how the guards develop back problems when they're close to retirement, and army staff start having hearing problems. They're all milking the system


  • #50
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Bit of bull**** to be fair.

    Joining the Gardai has a certain amount of danger to it. You shouldn't be allowed to sue for doing your job and the down sides that come with it.

    The Gardai should be giving her free counseling and nothing more.

    Can the employee who started working for Lidl as a cash register sue because they lost ambition for management due to dealing with ****ty customers all day.
    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Can the employee who started working for Lidl as a cash register sue because they lost ambition for management due to dealing with ****ty customers all day.

    Private companies employees sue every single day of the week for far less and having your face smashed in by a criminal is not a ****ty customer

    The cost seems very high, I know a lot of Gardai who got worse injuries with less compensation however in regards just having a broken nose, it required more than 1 surgery to correct so it was evidently a pretty bad one.


  • #51
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    bigpink wrote: »
    Hoe about bar staff or shop staff that attacked?

    a M&S sales assistant that had cash grabbed from her till sues for PTSD despite not being threatened or injured physically.

    For every 1 case of a Garda seeking compensation, I can find ten from private companies


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  • #52
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,651 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    ScumLord wrote: »
    YOu don't have to accept the assault as part of the job, but you do have to accept that you might get assaulted at some stage because of the job. It's not surprising that a guard would get assaulted given who they deal with.


    I don't think anyone should have to accept that they might get assaulted because they're a Garda. Isn't the whole point of being a Garda to uphold the law and prevent people from assaulting other people? Why should they accept the likelihood that they'll be assaulted at some stage if they don't have to, if it can be prevented by introducing better procedures to prevent that possibility?

    The article doesn't really give much information. Like what did the state do wrong? I can accept that if there were no procedures in place and the guards are just winging it, then the state is responsible for not taking any precautions to protect our guards. If there are procedures in place that were ignored, then it's the state's fault. I think a guard should be compensated for medical bills incurred by the job.


    The Gardaí are agents and employees of the State, so the State has a responsibility to them as their employer. If the State fails in that responsibility, then the State is held liable.

    But this just seems like rewarding someone because something bad happened to them, and it seems like the woman in question maybe didn't have the constitution for the job. Guards have to deal with horrible people that will do horrible things. The guards put themselves in positions we wouldn't want to be in, that takes a special kind of person. I know I'm not that kind of person so I'm not judging anyone.


    It's not just rewarding someone because something bad happened to them. I wouldn't want to suffer a broken nose and subsequent ill mental health for any amount of money, so it's not a reward, it's an award for damages. I'm not sure any Garda goes out in the morning looking to be assaulted so they can sue the State. I wouldn't mind being a Garda myself, but if one of the conditions was that I would have to accept the likelihood of being assaulted, then I'd wonder what sort of fool would accept those terms of employment, and why wouldn't their employer put appropriate safely measures in place?


  • #53
    warpdrive
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 187 ✭✭warpdrive


    Joins the gards which may obviously involve dealing with violent criminals
    Gets treated violently by violent criminals
    Sues


    Why was she not a desk clerk or something if this is her reaction to something that lots of gards are exposed to at times? Women trying to go for the gards should definitely do so but only after they seriously consider the risks involved.


  • #54
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Wilder Red Vinyl wrote: »
    Our Gardaí are already too soft and I would be worried that this sets a precedence for compensation claims left, right and centre.

    Explain, in what way are Gardai too soft? Because they dont go around battering people and end up in jail?

    We have the system we deserve, Gardai were getting prosecuted and disciplined for using unreasonable force so the message became clear, better to let them hit you and get compensation than fight back and get and risj being prosecuted.


  • #55
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    good enough for her.donkey

    What's good enough for her exactly?


  • #56
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    A bit like how the guards develop back problems when they're close to retirement,

    evidence of this being a frequent occurance?


  • #57
    LiamoSail
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭LiamoSail


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I don't think anyone should have to accept that they might get assaulted because they're a Garda. Isn't the whole point of being a Garda to uphold the law and prevent people from assaulting other people? Why should they accept the likelihood that they'll be assaulted at some stage if they don't have to, if it can be prevented by introducing better procedures to prevent that possibility?

    So how do you prevent it? It's like saying that as a Soldier, you shouldn't have to accept the possibility that you could be shot.

    When it's your job to apprehend the dregs of society, having to deal with the resulting conflict is part of the job. It's inevitable that there will be some that resort to physical violence in such circumstances


  • #58
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    No Garda should have to accept the risk of being assaulted.

    FFS. In the job description isnt it?


  • #59
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Gatling wrote: »
    Garda ptsd Awarded €390,000

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-garda-sergeant-awarded-390k-compensation-for-severe-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-31088093.html

    Garda ptsd awarded €50,000

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/garda-sergeant-who-suffered-ptsd-after-siege-awarded-50-000-1.2124415

    Garda ptsd awarded € 170,000

    http://m.rte.ie/news/2014/1208/665498-thomas-mansfield-court/

    Garda awarded €102,000

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/compensation-of-102000-for-garda-assaulted-while-making-an-arrest-29022814.html

    every one of those incidents are situations that any normal person would never find themselves in . your average joe wouldn't be withing a mile of these situations and most of them were situations where they wee targeted because of being gardai.

    then again any one who has been the victim of a crime can put a claim in with the criminal compensation board. should gardai be disqualified from this entitlement ?
    espically considering the numbers of gardai being attacked because they are gardai

    http://www.kildarenow.com/news/kildare-td-alarmed-that-10-gardai-injured-on-duty-every-week/45207


  • #60
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    All the people giving out, may I ask who they expect to join An Garda Siochana if being assaulted and seriously injured or killed did NOT result in compensation?

    "Hey thanks for taking that knife mate now **** off onto disability benefit and buy your own wheelchair while your at it"

    "Well I realise your husband wa killed on duty but ya know he knew the risks so off ya go now and pay the bills, mortgage and child care costs on your own"

    If this was setting a precedent, the state didnt accept liability or the Judge didnt think it was a worthy case then it would have been contested and the claim dismissed


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  • #61
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Can we just clarify something if possible, was she just punched in the nose or was there a full blown assault?


    I'd call nonsense if she's claiming a single punch in the nose gave her PTSD.


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