People who are anti-Vegans

Have to say, I love meat. I don't consider a meal to be a meal unless meat is involved. In my opinion Hindus are idiots because they don't eat beef, Muslims and Jews are idiots because they don't eat pork and vegans and vegetarians are idiots because they don't eat meat. However as long as they don't preach to me about my diet then I don't really give a stuff about their choices and everything's fine.

Anytime I've had a vegan lecture me about veganism I have told them about how much I enjoy hunting and fishing, the great cultural experience I had at a cock-fight in Mexico, the fun at the running of the bulls and cheering on the Matadors in Spain, how much money I made on dog-fighting in the last year etc. I just start making **** up to see if I can make them cry or puke.

Just to clarify, I also think Christians who don't eat meat on Good Friday (is that right?) are idiots too. I could never be a part of a religion that restricted my dietary choices.

Potatoeman wrote: »

If everyone became a vegan tomorrow, I doubt farmers would still keep their herds. The point being many animals survival is dependant on their usefulness.

You could well argue that they remain useful for their fertiliser, if nothing else.

After all, when we stopped using horse for transport, they didn't go extinct, did they?

astrofool wrote: »

Because we ate them instead (or raced them or turned them into glue).

Ever heard of cow bingo? Quite popular in some parts

Shenshen wrote: »

80% of soay beans grown world wide are used for animal feed.
10% are used for biofuel.
10% are produced for human consumption.

That's 10% for now, because people still eat meat. But once the vegan brigade would have their dream of a happy cheerful world with no human carnivores fulfilled, people will still need to get their proteins from somewhere. The food mileage would shoot over the roof and this will also be the time when the fight for land will start in countries which actually are capable of producing food that vegan can live on and which would cover their nutritional needs.
Let's take Ireland - I could give you a week's menu of recipes which would require a bare minimum of products to be delivered from abroad.
What would be the food mileage of a corresponding vegan menu?

haminka wrote: »

That's 10% for now, because people still eat meat. But once the vegan brigade would have their dream of a happy cheerful world with no human carnivores fulfilled, people will still need to get their proteins from somewhere. The food mileage would shoot over the roof and this will also be the time when the fight for land will start in countries which actually are capable of producing food that vegan can live on and which would cover their nutritional needs.
Let's take Ireland - I could give you a week's menu of recipes which would require a bare minimum of products to be delivered from abroad.
What would be the food mileage of a corresponding vegan menu?

What vegan brigade? Is there some sort of global conspiracy going on that I'm not aware of?

haminka wrote: »

1. Is food mileage of vegans in Ireland higher or lower than of someone who eats meat and tries to source their produce from local sources as much as possible.

I'm not sure that question is relevant. They're vegans, not environmentalists.

If there really were a vegan world, what changes would have to be done to the way we source our food to cover our nutritional needs?

Getting nutrition from plant sources is trivial in real terms, there's nothing you can't grow in Ireland that you "need" to fill in a nutrition gap.

The main issue is that in order to create an analogue of the "meat and two veg", you require a good bit of processing.

But again a vegan would argue that you don't need a "meat and two veg". There's no reason why you can't get a completely nutritious meal that's been picked and prepared fresh at home, we're just culturally ingrained to have a chunk of something proteinish in a meal.

How about cultures which depend on stuff like honey, dairy, eggs and home-bred animals to cover their nutritional needs?

Isn't that basically all cultures?
It's the same question really as no. 2.

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure that question is relevant. They're vegans, not environmentalists.
Getting nutrition from plant sources is trivial in real terms, there's nothing you can't grow in Ireland that you "need" to fill in a nutrition gap.

The main issue is that in order to create an analogue of the "meat and two veg", you require a good bit of processing.

But again a vegan would argue that you don't need a "meat and two veg". There's no reason why you can't get a completely nutritious meal that's been picked and prepared fresh at home, we're just culturally ingrained to have a chunk of something proteinish in a meal.
Isn't that basically all cultures?
It's the same question really as no. 2.

I am looking at sample vegan recipes and honestly, they don't seem to agree with you. I see a fair amount of avocados, nuts not native to Ireland, soya, coconut milk, quinoa etc.
I am on the webpage of British vegan society and so far every recipe I opened requires substitutes which are not really native to Ireland.

As for cultures, we seem to live in a nice bubble of our instant food availability and seem to forget that there are cultures outside there which don't really think in terms of food philosophy but are actually thankful for every food resource available (and that's by the way how humankind's relationship with dairy, eggs, honey and meat started). I'd like to see a vegan telling someone who has no ready access to a very vegan cane sugar or syrup substitute that honey is bad because they are exploiting the poor bees.

haminka wrote: »

I am looking at sample vegan recipes and honestly, they don't seem to agree with you. I see a fair amount of avocados, nuts not native to Ireland, soya, coconut milk, quinoa etc.
I am on the webpage of British vegan society and so far every recipe I opened requires substitutes which are not really native to Ireland.

And? Why wouldn't they? Why would you automatically expect them to favour native plant species?

Again, I think you're confusing vegans with environmentalists.

Vegans for the most part would implicitly accept that veganism is a lifestyle largely made possible by humans advances in agricultural technology. And given a "marooned on a desert island" scenario, it would be difficult to stay healthy and remain vegan.

However that doesn't mean that it's only made possible in a modern world with smartphones and freezers - the cultivation of non-native food sources has been possible for hundreds of years, rather the nutritional science and the ideological piece has taken longer to catch up.
Transportation advances also help a lot when you don't have to source all of your food from a local farmer.

DareGod wrote: »

And to anyone who is under any illusions here, animals are treated terribly in the name of meat, dairy and other animal-derived products. People can try to re-write the truth anyway they want but it's a fact that is not up for debate. Continue to consume those products all you want (I consume them myself) but what pisses me off is people who constantly try to fight against those who are campaigning for an end to animal abuse.

This is nonsense. Eating meat doesn't lead to animal abuse. There is abuse in the industry but it's not that common in Ireland. Most farm animals live as naturally as possible and the only time they see the farmer is when they're being fed, given medical treatment or being brought in because of bad weather.

What do people think is the alternative for these animals? Take out the fact they'd be culled on a massive scale if we weren't going to eat them, but what about living wild do people think is preferable to these animals? Domestic animals get huge advantages from sticking with humans. We're now finding out that humans didn't do the domestication of some of our domestic pets, they chose to live with us. The benefits of being protected by humans is huge.

I'm completely against intensive farming, it's wrong. But there's nothing wrong with keeping animals for meat, all you have to do is watch an Irish farmer walk into a field with his cattle. They run to him, not from him, they seem to have complete trust in him.