People who are anti-Vegans

DareGod

I originally posted this in the Trivial Things That Annoy You thread but I ended up having so much more to say about it than I thought and decided I'd be interested in hearing a discussion about it.

There's this guy I know who is very clearly anti-Vegans. He makes it clear that he believes that all vegans are know-it-alls who spend their time announcing their veganism to the world as well as constantly telling everyone else how they should live. It really pisses me off that he expresses this opinion of his so much, for the following reasons:

(1) The vast majority of vegans do NOT go around announcing they are vegan, NOR do they go around talking about it. He is clearly only hearing from the minority that do, and he has concluded that that is how everybody who is vegan acts. So ignorant.

(2) He doesn't seem to realise that being vegan very often goes hand in hand with believing that animals are being abused, and the will to stop this. And, as with any campaign, it's necessary to speak up about it regularly. How else are people meant to campaign for what they believe in? By keeping quiet? And by the way, in my humble opinion, animal abuse is quite the worthy cause. It's not like it's a campaign for the rights of rich people to be given more tax breaks. It seems quite terrible to moan about people who campaign for an end to animal abuse.


(3) Since he has such a vendetta against vegans, that means it has hit a nerve with him. So I think his insistence and persistence are coming from a place of guilt.

And I'm not even vegan. I just wouldn't have the absolute cheek to complain about people who are making sacrifices in the name of stopping animal abuse while I chomp away on my cooked dead cow.

And to anyone who is under any illusions here, animals are treated terribly in the name of meat, dairy and other animal-derived products. People can try to re-write the truth anyway they want but it's a fact that is not up for debate. Continue to consume those products all you want (I consume them myself) but what pisses me off is people who constantly try to fight against those who are campaigning for an end to animal abuse.

warpdrive

...have you tried talking to him about this?

DivingDuck

DareGod wrote: »

(1) The vast majority of vegans do NOT go around announcing they are vegan, NOR do they go around talking about it.

[...]

(2) He doesn't seem to realise that being vegan very often goes hand in hand with believing that animals are being abused, and the will to stop this. And, as with any campaign, it's necessary to speak up about it regularly. How else are people meant to campaign for what they believe in? By keeping quiet?

Your two points here are contradictory.

Are you saying that most vegans don't talk about being vegan, or that most vegans do talk about being vegan, and that they should?

Samaris

Most vegans I know are perfectly sane and normal people who don't make a big deal out of it (there was one that I felt a mild need to beat over the head with something heavy). Personal choice, grando. I don't generally know they're vegan until we're eating together or something.

In internet debates, -of late-, I seem to see sane and normal vegans being lambasted by people having a go at them.

I have no personal interest in being a vegan myself, but other than that, live and let live.

CaptainInsano

As meat eater I've definitely engaged in that sort of logic in the past and it was absolutely coming from a place of guilt and ignorance and trying to justify my actions. As I've matured I realise it is undoubtedly immoral to eat meat on the industrial scale we do, and consume dairy. The recent footage of bobby calves in New Zealand really upset me. Consuming meat is a flaw in my character that I'm hoping to fix in the coming months and I do wish I wasn't so weak willed, but delegating my dirty work to slaughterhouse workers so I don't have to think about it is a weak ass way to live and once your conscious of that there's no excuse not to change.

Edit: I'd recommend researching what Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins have to say about it. They both eat meat, or at least did when the clips I saw were filmed, but they openly admit that vegans are morally superior to them in that regard. Interesting debates on the topic.

DOJ

I think of vegan-ism like religion

I dont push my views/choices on anyone else and dont expect people to push their views/choices on me

I have a few friends who are vegan but only because they told me when i was going to cook for them.

My vegan friends know that i hunt/shoot and eat meat but have no problem with it as i dont force them to eat meat and they dont insist i not eat meat.

I do have to laugh at vegetarians who eat fish (especially from fish farms) or have parmesan cheese on their pasta as its made from animal by products

DareGod

DareGod wrote: »

(1) The vast majority of vegans do NOT go around announcing they are vegan, NOR do they go around talking about it.

(2) He doesn't seem to realise that being vegan very often goes hand in hand with believing that animals are being abused, and the will to stop this. And, as with any campaign, it's necessary to speak up about it regularly. How else are people meant to campaign for what they believe in? By keeping quiet?


(3) Since he has such a vendetta against vegans, that means it has hit a nerve with him. So I think his insistence and persistence are coming from a place of guilt.


And to anyone who is under any illusions here, animals are treated terribly in the name of meat, dairy and other animal-derived products. People can try to re-write the truth anyway they want but it's a fact that is not up for debate. Continue to consume those products all you want (I consume them myself) but what pisses me off is people who constantly try to fight against those who are campaigning for an end to animal abuse.

1. Your experience differs from his. Without some very unlikely to be available research on what vegans go around talking about that's all you're saying here. My experience tallies with his.

2. Lol contradict your first point much?

3. Projection, denied.

4. Wait this thread was advertised as being about ppl who are anti-vegan, which might be an interesting topic. It appears to be in fact an appeal/defence of veganism which, tbh, isnt. Refund pls.

suicide_circus

In my experience, a vegan will more often than not broadcast the fact. That's not to say they all aggressively promote the lifestyle, its usually the people who have been vegan for about the last ten minutes who are most vocal and righteous.

I don't think eating meat is immoral per say and let's be honest, it is the tastiest of foods but I think there is an extremely strong environmental argument to say that the global population's ever increasing meat consumption is a bad thing. Methane emissions, deforestation, desertification etc.

Animal cruelty? Yeah, it bugs me, I only buy Irish meat - free range and organic where possible, although I suspect that's largely marketing. Avoid battery chicken etc.

I am aware that there is what I call the "guilt-trip industry"...essentially the commerce based on guilt-trip campaigning - charity industry, social justice industry etc and I think the vegan/organic industries are part of that marketing movement so I am wary and cynical of anyone who claims to have answers to the world's ills.

kettlehead

I'm a damn carnivore. But if you love food, invite a vegan into your home.

My daughter came game from school and spent a minute in a more diverse background than I spent in school! In first class, for her birthday, I let her have a sleep over party.

We order in wings, nachos, pizza and I'll have a few beers watching MotD when they go to bed. This is the life.

Oh, x can't eat this. Religious reasons. No problemos. Ys family do not eat meat. Fcuk this simple sleepover.

So, we allowed our daughter learn from the vegan familia, she's still a meat lover, but she's learned a lot

Sunnyisland

People's who eat shouldn't throw stone's




Did I say that ok ☺

Shenshen

The vast majority of vegetarians and vegans I know won't even mention their diet to others, unless asked outright or being invited for food.

So I would definitely agree with the idea that the people who complain about all vegetarians and vegan being missionary zealots probably have no idea how many vegans and vegetarians they actually even know.

And while I'm vegetarian because I have an ethical problem with eating animals, I would never dream of telling anyone else not to eat them. If pushed in discussions and debates, I would at the most suggest that it might be good if people ate less meat and took more care as to where their meat is coming from.

For people to take such offense at the dietary choices of others is rather puzzling to me. It does remind me a bit of people who obsess about the sexual orientations of others, equally odd behaviour.

VinLieger

Vegetarians are grand, do I agree with their choices no, but thats up to them as long as they don't try to prosletyse at me and in the vast majority of cases they will only mention it when eating comes up and it needs to be known.

Vegans on the other hand from my experience are a different breed, and despite what the OP asserts every vegan I have ever met has been positively giddy to tell me they were one without prompting or any conversations verging near the edges of food, nutrition or animal welfare.

They also cannot shut up about how important it is and will constantly badger you for eating meat, again this is in my experience so maybe ive simply only met very militant ones but they don't help with giving the rest of their movement a great impression

Hrududu

A friend of mine has gone on a rant a few times recently over the ads around Dublin saying something like "Go Vegan". His argument is he doesn't want them pushing their views in his face. I find it funny because nothing is ever said of Bord Bia ads or anything else that "pushes" meat eating on the public. Or the fact that every wall is covered in advertising "pushing" something else on us. None of that seems to bother him. Its just the vegan ones.

kneemos

What's the point going through all that hardship and not telling anybody?
It's like being anointed a saint and wearing a circular fluorescent bulb on your head.

smash

In the words of Frankie Boyle "Yes sir there is a vegetarian option... you can go fcuk yourself!"

VinLieger

Hrududu wrote: »

A friend of mine has gone on a rant a few times recently over the ads around Dublin saying something like "Go Vegan". His argument is he doesn't want them pushing their views in his face. I find it funny because nothing is ever said of Bord Bia ads or anything else that "pushes" meat eating on the public. Or the fact that every wall is covered in advertising "pushing" something else on us. None of that seems to bother him. Its just the vegan ones.

I have never seen a Bord Bia add specifically urging people to eat meat, they might be ads that encourage eating healthily that include eating meat as one factor of this?

Zombienosh

Most people that become vegan do so initially out of compassion.
So are people that ridicule vegans and veganism looking negatively on compassion? or just the idea of compassion towards animals?

Is compassion really a silly airy fairy quality?

Zombienosh

smash wrote: »

In the words of Frankie Boyle "Yes sir there is a vegetarian option... you can go fcuk yourself!"

Ironically Frankie Boyle is a vegan.

VinLieger

Zombienosh wrote: »

Most people that become vegan do so initially out of compassion.
So are people that ridicule vegans and veganism looking negatively on compassion? or just the idea of compassion towards animals?

Is compassion really a silly airy fairy quality?

No but their insistence on telling everyone how compassionate, environmentally conscious, progressive thinking etc etc they are is just annoying, great you like animals now fvck and let me eat my bacon wrapped steak in peace cus the only way your gonna stop me eating it is by tearing it out of my cold dead hands.

The impression I have of many vegans is they are only vegan so they can then tell people they are vegan

biko

Anti-vegans are like vegans. They get upset over something they have no control over and is mainly just annoying with their talk.

Darkglasses

Vegans who don't tell anyone that they are such will probably go unnoticed most of the time. Hence the insistence by some that every vegan is just dying to tell you about themselves.

VinLieger

biko wrote: »

Anti-vegans are like vegans. They get upset over something they have no control over and is mainly just annoying with their talk.

Difference is anti-vegans only talk about it when specifically discussing veganism, like the topic of this thread.

All the vegans ive met can talk about nothing else no matter what else is being discussed

Log9

Some people are just weirdos who like being annoyed by everyone.

I had a guy go off on a rant at me because I don't eat wheat. It's not a choice, I'm coeliac.

He spent a good 5 minutes going on and on about "metrosexual, hipsters who won't eat wheat, vegans or are off carbs"

I also got called into a HR meeting once (same guy) because I wouldn't eat sandwiches at a sales meeting, didn't participate in a "pizza party" and had "insulted" the other company and wasn't being a "team player".

Some people are just ignorant ****s

That wasn't even a job I particularly wanted but talk about making a medical condition into a major issue it absolutely shouldn't be. Seemingly eating biscuits, sandwiches and pizza was part of the job ...

thegreatgonzo

VinLieger wrote: »

I have never seen a Bord Bia add specifically urging people to eat meat, they might be ads that encourage eating healthily that include eating meat as one factor of this?

The Bord Bia man is a hottie but even I think he goes a bit over the top about the ham and the chicken and the lamb.

Shenshen

VinLieger wrote: »

Difference is anti-vegans only talk about it when specifically discussing veganism, like the topic of this thread.

All the vegans ive met can talk about nothing else no matter what else is being discussed

Just out of interest - how many vegans who haven't told you that they are vegans have you met, do you think?

kneemos

Log9 wrote: »

Some people are just weirdos who like being annoyed by everyone.

I had a guy go off on a rant at me because I don't eat wheat. It's not a choice, I'm coeliac.

He spent a good 5 minutes going on and on about "metrosexual, hipsters who won't eat wheat, vegans or are off carbs"

I also got called into a HR meeting once because I wouldn't eat sandwiches at a sales meeting, didn't participate in a "pizza party" and had "insulted" the other company and wasn't being a "team player".

Some people are just ignorant ****s

Surprised you weren't bombed.

Darkglasses

Log9 wrote: »

Some people are just weirdos who like being annoyed by everyone.

I had a guy go off on a rant at me because I don't eat wheat. It's not a choice, I'm coeliac.

He spent a good 5 minutes going on and on about "metrosexual, hipsters who won't eat wheat, vegans or are off carbs"

I also got called into a HR meeting once because I wouldn't eat sandwiches at a sales meeting, didn't participate in a "pizza party" and had "insulted" the other company and wasn't being a "team player".

Some people are just ignorant ****s

It's amazing how some people love not just labelling people, but then rolling all the labels together too. Simpler outlook I suppose.

Log9

Darkglasses wrote: »

It's amazing how some people not just labelling people, but then rolling all the labels together too. Simpler outlook I suppose.

I have a label for people like that too tho. Begins with C ends with T and rhymes with runt.

VinLieger

Shenshen wrote: »

Just out of interest - how many vegans who haven't told you that they are vegans have you met, do you think?

I wouldnt know obviously but the ones I have met who told me after talking to them for 2 minutes havent left a great impression.

I know maybe 10 quite well and have met twice to three times that many socially and every one of them has this fetish about turning every single topic of conversation around to veganism.

Not once have I ever met a vegan who was able to casually go "ohh im vegan" and then talk about something else that didnt relate to it.

Again like I said maybe ive only met very militant ones but there is also nuggets of truth in every stereotype

Penny Tration

I don't know an awful lot of vegans and vegetarians, maybe 8 (comprised of vegans and veggies). all bar one don't broadcast it, I only know because if we would go for dinner somewhere, it'd come up in conversation because we'd look for a place to accommodate us all.

The one who did announce she was vegan was a dope who nobody paid much heed to anyway. she'd spend a night out drinking whatever vegan friendly alcohol the bar served, then when absolutely locked would go to the 24 hour londis on the way home and buy chocolate and stuff her face. She's also a member of sea shepherds so not someone to be taken seriously.

Most of them don't go about announcing their food choices unless it's necessary (going for dinner). Their choice so leave them to it.

Shenshen

VinLieger wrote: »

I wouldnt know obviously but the ones I have met who told me after talking to them for 2 minutes havent left a great impression.

I know maybe 10 quite well and have met twice to three times that many socially and every one of them has this fetish about turning every single topic of conversation around to veganism.

Not once have I ever met a vegan who was able to casually go "ohh im vegan" and then talk about something else that didnt relate to it.

Again like I said maybe ive only met very militant ones but there is also nuggets of truth in every stereotype

Wow, that's quite a number.
I'm actively involved in a vegetarian/vegan group, and out of the 20 of us there are only 4 vegans. You must have a very interesting social circle to be meeting that many.

Galway K9

DOJ wrote: »

I think of vegan-ism like religion

I dont push my views/choices on anyone else and dont expect people to push their views/choices on me

I have a few friends who are vegan but only because they told me when i was going to cook for them.

My vegan friends know that i hunt/shoot and eat meat but have no problem with it as i dont force them to eat meat and they dont insist i not eat meat.

I do have to laugh at vegetarians who eat fish (especially from fish farms) or have parmesan cheese on their pasta as its made from animal by products

You're not a vegetarian if you eat fish. Its meat!

That's a piscatarian where the only meat they'll eat is Fish.

Log9

I know a few vegans and they don't go on about it. It'll come up though if they're ordering food though because it's going to limit the menu a bit.

Lecturing someone else about what they're eating is just arrogant and usually fairly ignorant.

Eat and let eat!

Ficheall

I generally find that anyone who just announces themselves as a follower of some sort of ideology, especially if it's not related to the topic under discussion, is an asshole.
"I'm an atheist" = asshole
"I'm a feminist" = asshole
"I'm a socialist" = asshole

"I'm a vegan" is a positively useful piece of info by comparison.

People can feel however they wish, so long as they don't feel obliged to tell me about it..

Hrududu

VinLieger wrote: »

I have never seen a Bord Bia add specifically urging people to eat meat, they might be ads that encourage eating healthily that include eating meat as one factor of this?

Maybe my wording was off, but stuff like this:

http://thecircular.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Ham-Bacon-ad.jpg

VinLieger

Shenshen wrote: »

Wow, that's quite a number.
I'm actively involved in a vegetarian/vegan group, and out of the 20 of us there are only 4 vegans. You must have a very interesting social circle to be meeting that many.

Most of them I have met through work not necessarily part of my social circle but I would interact with regularly

Zirconia

suicide_circus wrote: »

In my experience, a vegan will more often than not broadcast the fact. That's not to say they all aggressively promote the lifestyle, its usually the people who have been vegan for about the last ten minutes who are most vocal and righteous.

I have to say I disagree, I am vegan, and I would assume my attitude and behavior is the same as probably closer to the majority of vegans in that its a personal choice that I don't draw any attention to if I can manage it. I was working with my current team for over two years, having gone out for meals maybe a dozen times with them before someone noticed I was discreetly ordering different food to them, and then everyone knew. I certainly don't go around pushing an agenda, and I believe the majority don't either.

So, to mix up a metaphor slightly, your experience with vegans or vegetarians is probably the loud tip of a very large, but quiet iceberg. You probably know or encounter many vegans and vegetarians every day and never know their choice in diet at all.

MRnotlob606

Ficheall wrote: »

I generally find that anyone who just announces themselves as a follower of some sort of ideology, especially if it's not related to the topic under discussion, is an asshole.
"I'm an atheist" = asshole
"I'm a feminist" = asshole
"I'm a socialist" = asshole
"I'm a gaeilgeoir" = assh

"I'm a vegan" is a positively

"I'm a Fine Gael supporter"

imitation

Log9 wrote: »

Some people are just weirdos who like being annoyed by everyone.

I had a guy go off on a rant at me because I don't eat wheat. It's not a choice, I'm coeliac.

He spent a good 5 minutes going on and on about "metrosexual, hipsters who won't eat wheat, vegans or are off carbs"

I also got called into a HR meeting once (same guy) because I wouldn't eat sandwiches at a sales meeting, didn't participate in a "pizza party" and had "insulted" the other company and wasn't being a "team player".

Some people are just ignorant ****s

That wasn't even a job I particularly wanted but talk about making a medical condition into a major issue it absolutely shouldn't be. Seemingly eating biscuits, sandwiches and pizza was part of the job ...

Only solution is to go to the computer, google coeliac in front of them and point the fact there w**nky pizza party could kill you.

Galway K9

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

"I'm a Fine Gael supporter"

asshole

Log9

imitation wrote: »

Only solution is to go to the computer, google coeliac in front of them and point the fact there w**nky pizza party could kill you.

It was only a paying the bills while doing a masters kind of job. I quit and wasn't particularly facilitating about long notice or handover. Karma sandwiches!

seamus

I've never once met a vegan who talked about it unprompted. Ever.

And I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians, easily 100+ people.

As others have said, the volume of "funny" people who make jokes about it and the number of ads pushing meat-eating on vegans/vegetarians easily outnumbers them 1000:1.

Vojera

I dunno, is this whole "vegan in your face" thing not one of those internet things, like those fantastically over the top SJWs who belittle others for not recognising the fact that they identify as dragon-kin? They exist online but not in real life?

I only know one vegan. She's not especially vocal about it but I don't like when she mentions it. The reason is that I feel incredibly guilty about all the animal products I use but I would find it pretty impossible to go vegan. So her success makes me feel bad about myself.

Log9

Galway K9 wrote: »

asshole

There's worse: "I just love Fianna Fáil. If they were back in, the economy would be great!"

yes, that was really said to me --- on a very short and awkward Tinder date.

"Oh jaysus I left something on the cooker at home. Nice meeting you"

MRnotlob606

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/636245/371664.jpg

MRnotlob606

download (2).jpg

robbiezero

DareGod wrote: »

I originally posted this in the Trivial Things That Annoy You thread but I ended up having so much more to say about it than I thought and decided I'd be interested in hearing a discussion about it.

There's this guy I know who is very clearly anti-Vegans. He makes it clear that he believes that all vegans are know-it-alls who spend their time announcing their veganism to the world as well as constantly telling everyone else how they should live. It really pisses me off that he expresses this opinion of his so much, for the following reasons:

(1) The vast majority of vegans do NOT go around announcing they are vegan, NOR do they go around talking about it. He is clearly only hearing from the minority that do, and he has concluded that that is how everybody who is vegan acts. So ignorant.

(2) He doesn't seem to realise that being vegan very often goes hand in hand with believing that animals are being abused, and the will to stop this. And, as with any campaign, it's necessary to speak up about it regularly. How else are people meant to campaign for what they believe in? By keeping quiet? And by the way, in my humble opinion, animal abuse is quite the worthy cause. It's not like it's a campaign for the rights of rich people to be given more tax breaks. It seems quite terrible to moan about people who campaign for an end to animal abuse.


(3) Since he has such a vendetta against vegans, that means it has hit a nerve with him. So I think his insistence and persistence are coming from a place of guilt.

And I'm not even vegan. I just wouldn't have the absolute cheek to complain about people who are making sacrifices in the name of stopping animal abuse while I chomp away on my cooked dead cow.

And to anyone who is under any illusions here, animals are treated terribly in the name of meat, dairy and other animal-derived products. People can try to re-write the truth anyway they want but it's a fact that is not up for debate. Continue to consume those products all you want (I consume them myself) but what pisses me off is people who constantly try to fight against those who are campaigning for an end to animal abuse.

Are dairy animals really treated all that badly at least in this country? Always seem quite content to me.

kneemos

robbiezero wrote: »

Are dairy animals really treated all that badly at least in this country? Always seem quite content to me.

Cattle and sheep have the life of Riley,they could eat those with a clear conscience. Also free range eggs and by-products such as fish oil and pigs trotters .

haminka

CaptainInsano wrote: »

As meat eater I've definitely engaged in that sort of logic in the past and it was absolutely coming from a place of guilt and ignorance and trying to justify my actions. As I've matured I realise it is undoubtedly immoral to eat meat on the industrial scale we do, and consume dairy. The recent footage of bobby calves in New Zealand really upset me. Consuming meat is a flaw in my character that I'm hoping to fix in the coming months and I do wish I wasn't so weak willed, but delegating my dirty work to slaughterhouse workers so I don't have to think about it is a weak ass way to live and once your conscious of that there's no excuse not to change.

Edit: I'd recommend researching what Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins have to say about it. They both eat meat, or at least did when the clips I saw were filmed, but they openly admit that vegans are morally superior to them in that regard. Interesting debates on the topic.

I think it's that feeling of moral superiority that many vegans don't hesitate to show that alienates people so much. Not out of any guilt, at least not for me. I once asked a vegan to compare the food mileage of our respective lunches. My chicken soup, with all ingredients sourced in Ireland and his cashew something mix with quinoa. I didn't feel superior to him in any way but I was left in peace afterwards.

DareGod

DareGod wrote: »

And to anyone who is under any illusions here, animals are treated terribly in the name of meat, dairy and other animal-derived products. People can try to re-write the truth anyway they want but it's a fact that is not up for debate.

It is very much up for debate as your statement is not correct or even close to it. There is questionable treatment of animals in parts of the world, some places which should no better too like Oz/new Zealand and the US for instance but its as much a failing of the authorities as anything for allowing standards to be set low and people demanding cheaper and cheaper meat is driving it also.

However in Europe and in Ireland in particular animals are treated exceptionally well both dairy heards, beef heards and sheep. We farm and are surrounded by other farms and the animals are treated like kings and looked after in every way they need there is no mistreatment or cruelty whatsoever or even close to it. Poultry is in some instances intensively farmed here and the chickens may not have the best lives but they are not mistreated either and have to follow strict codes of practice. There are also free range farms for eggs, chicken etc so its up to people to spend the extra money required to buy these in order to get more people farming in this way.

MilesMorales1

Sounds like vegan talk to me OP.