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No Easy Games in Aviva Premiership thread 2015/2016

2

Comments

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Luka Sticky Tailgate


    Do many (any?) of these clubs make money as it stands? If not hiking the salary cap seems fairly irresponsible

    Think the Irish sides can forget about it in Europe once this all kicks in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Do many (any?) of these clubs make money as it stands? If not hiking the salary cap seems fairly irresponsible

    Think the Irish sides can forget about it in Europe once this all kicks in.

    Most of them are fairly stable (Saracens have a LOT of debt but seem happy enough with it), the reason they're increasing the salary cap is because of the reportedly huge amount of extra money they're making from the renewed BT tv deal. That all gets evenly distributed amongst the clubs, apart from clubs that aren't full members like LW in the past, so raising the cap in line with that makes sense.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Bailey Crooked Walkway


    Sale also come out to say that they are not one of the teams..

    Then there were 10 (though 9 really as Worcester are hardly likely to be included!)
    Club
    1 Saracens
    2 Leicester Tigers
    3 Exeter Chiefs
    4 Northampton Saints
    5 Gloucester
    6 Harlequins
    7 Wasps
    8 Bath
    9 Sale Sharks
    10 Worcester Warriors
    11 Newcastle Falcons
    12 London Irish


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭RobbieRuns


    London Irish to play a premiership game in New York.............. interesting.

    Lots talking about the US market, fair play if they are taking a gamble. Need to improve the team tho.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Sale also come out to say that they are not one of the teams..

    Then there were 10 (though 9 really as Worcester are hardly likely to be included!)
    Club
    1 Saracens
    2 Leicester Tigers
    3 Exeter Chiefs
    4 Northampton Saints
    5 Gloucester
    6 Harlequins
    7 Wasps
    8 Bath
    9 Sale Sharks
    10 Worcester Warriors
    11 Newcastle Falcons
    12 London Irish

    Brian Moore interviewed Quentin Smith on his podcast there the other night (well worth a listen online, certainly didn't go easy on him) and suggested that the clubs themselves will come out with the information... That would be hugely entertaining!

    Premiership rugby have to disclose this. They have a big year of negotiations ahead of them and having the clubs against them is the last thing they need.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I'm sure pressure will be applied by sponsors as well. Shady sports bodies are the flavour of the month (or year!).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Redgirl82


    I'm sure pressure will be applied by sponsors as well. Shady sports bodies are the flavour of the month (or year!).

    There is interview with Quentin Smith(Chairman of Premiership) and Brian Moore available via his podcasts. Anything Moore asks Quentin just says he is bound by confidentiality.

    Bath, Saracens & Northampton are the names mentioned but he would not deny or confirm.

    Also says it is very grey matters and nothing is black or white.

    It is very funny interview and really shows the attitude of Premiership management....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    JDV and Manu Tuilagi in the same team.........the club doctors will have their hands full :P


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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Bailey Crooked Walkway


    Sale also come out to say that they are not one of the teams..

    Then there were 10 (though 9 really as Worcester are hardly likely to be included!)
    Club
    1 Saracens
    2 Leicester Tigers
    3 Exeter Chiefs
    4 Northampton Saints
    5 Gloucester
    6 Harlequins
    7 Wasps
    8 Bath
    9 Sale Sharks
    10 Worcester Warriors
    11 Newcastle Falcons
    12 London Irish

    http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/24259/sale-newcastle-and-worcester-follow-wasps-in-salary-cap-row/

    Newcastle and Worcester join in...

    Exeter next?

    Here's Quentin Smith on Talksport with Brian Moore
    http://talksport.com/rugby-union/quentin-smith-premiership-rugbys-salary-cap-investigation-151025171836


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I suppose Quentin Smith did say that noone broke the salary cap, so every club could turn around and confirm it wasn't them!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Another mad one from Moore today claiming Bruce Craig is talking about Bath joining the Pro12.

    https://twitter.com/brianmoore666/status/659335646515982336


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Well that's unexpected


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Well that's unexpected

    In fairness I can't make Bath this season and have yet to go. By all accounts it's a great spot and one of the few left on my rugby wish list. So feck it, why not!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Michael Corcoran says it's untrue


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Michael Corcoran says it's untrue

    I don't believe it either tbh. How would it work and why would the Pro12 go for it even if Craig approached them? The whole thing makes next to no sense at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,805 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    Presumably, if true, it's about the formation of a Euro league and not about Bath just joining the PRO 12.


  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭ulster_Beef


    A super 14/15/16 European League with a second tier including relegation/ promotion would be great.... Cant see it happening any time soon but it WILL happen eventually. Money talks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    Presumably, if true, it's about the formation of a Euro league and not about Bath just joining the PRO 12.

    Nail on the head.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Brian Moore's vendetta on Twitter is both brilliant and hilarious.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I think he's deleted it now as I couldn't find it and he mentions deleting a tweet that turned out to be not true.

    He certainly has a bee in his bonnet over the salary cap too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭slingerz


    A super 14/15/16 European League with a second tier including relegation/ promotion would be great.... Cant see it happening any time soon but it WILL happen eventually. Money talks

    Totally. Can you imagine the tv rights that Sky/BT would have for it? Would drive upwards towards soccer levels

    Would probably mean the end of the European Cup as we know it with a more soccer style Cup being the way forward.

    The challenges it would present the IRFU would be immense too. I reckon they would struggle to support Munster/Leinster/Ulster at that rate and Connacht would be lost to it. The level of squad that would be needed would be huge really


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    slingerz wrote: »
    Totally. Can you imagine the tv rights that Sky/BT would have for it? Would drive upwards towards soccer levels

    Would probably mean the end of the European Cup as we know it with a more soccer style Cup being the way forward.

    The challenges it would present the IRFU would be immense too. I reckon they would struggle to support Munster/Leinster/Ulster at that rate and Connacht would be lost to it. The level of squad that would be needed would be huge really

    On the other hand it would expose our teams to a much much bigger TV audience thereby ensuring significantly more TV money which would help fund the provinces. A B&I league is more realisitic than a Euro one. I'd say the Welsh are already sold. Personally I'd love to see it, but governance issues means it's a while off at the minute.

    Anyway as for Bath joining the Pro 12 , I'm pretty sure BM was on the wind up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭slingerz


    bilston wrote: »
    On the other hand it would expose our teams to a much much bigger TV audience thereby ensuring significantly more TV money which would help fund the provinces. A B&I league is more realisitic than a Euro one. I'd say the Welsh are already sold. Personally I'd love to see it, but governance issues means it's a while off at the minute.

    Anyway as for Bath joining the Pro 12 , I'm pretty sure BM was on the wind up!

    Totally on the wind up and your right a B&I league would be even more feasible.

    A regular visit of Bath, Northampton, Leicester Tigers to Thomond Park or the RDS would surely see gate receipts improve as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭ulster_Beef


    The reality is, a 2 tier B&I League will happen, long before a European super league.

    As much as I hate the money pouring into rugby, its just the way of it and we must go along with it, whatever your views on that are. However, I just wish these things would happen sooner or later. The Pro12 is Tom Kite and the only real attraction is Europe.

    Surely teams such as Treviso, Zebre and then London Welsh et al, would come on better playing alongside other teams chasing promotion, rather than being the whipping boys (however much they can beat Ulster etc here and there)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    The reality is, a 2 tier B&I League will happen, long before a European super league.

    As much as I hate the money pouring into rugby, its just the way of it and we must go along with it, whatever your views on that are. However, I just wish these things would happen sooner or later. The Pro12 is Tom Kite and the only real attraction is Europe.

    Surely teams such as Treviso, Zebre and then London Welsh et al, would come on better playing alongside other teams chasing promotion, rather than being the whipping boys (however much they can beat Ulster etc here and there)

    Who's to say Ulster will be in the top tier of such a league? Be careful what you wish for... ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭ulster_Beef


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Who's to say Ulster will be in the top tier of such a league? Be careful what you wish for... ;)

    Regarding this season and the last, I wouldnt even bet on us being in the top tier. I have lost all faith in Ulster at the minute.

    Well and truly... I have no faith in the players and even less in the coaching ticket. Dont even get me started on this issue.... The reply thread wouldnt have enough room to fit my rant.

    Logan searched 'far and wide' for a coach and ends up with Doak... Up til 2 seasons ago we were European finalists and 1/4 finalists... league finalists and so on... There would have been bus loads of coaches queuing up to coach a team in such a situation... but we settle for a cricket player.

    As if signing Doak wasnt bad enough, we sign half a dozen flankers which didnt even set foot on the pitch as they were injured... We sign players of AIL background and expect them to do the business on Toulon et al.

    We sign Wilson for 2 more years who doesnt do anything and in the second row we have Peter Brown from London Welsh. A budgies fart has more power than him ffs... and to cap it off we pay around 500k a year for an all black who we dont need, as great as he is. We need forwards. We can sell half the backs we have and still have some to supply all 4 provinces with great players

    I have to end it here haha.

    This isnt the Ulster thread so...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Apparently only Leicester, Bath and Saracens have yet to come out with a statement about salary cap issues.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Bailey Crooked Walkway


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Apparently only Leicester, Bath and Saracens have yet to come out with a statement about salary cap issues.

    Belfast Telegraph - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/eight-clubs-deny-involvement-in-premiership-rugbys-salary-cap-investigations-34153118.html
    Saracens, Bath, Leicester and Newcastle are the remaining clubs yet to be drawn either way on the issue.
    BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34669989
    On Thursday, Saints, Gloucester, London Irish and Exeter joined Wasps, Harlequins, Newcastle, Sale and Worcester in confirming that they were not among the clubs that Premiership Rugby reached agreements with over last season's cap.

    Seems they can't decide whether or not Newcastle have. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...
    Sale also come out to say that they are not one of the teams..

    Then there were 10 (though 9 really as Worcester are hardly likely to be included!)
    Club
    1 Saracens
    2 Leicester Tigers
    3 Exeter Chiefs
    4 Northampton Saints
    5 Gloucester
    6 Harlequins
    7 Wasps
    8 Bath
    9 Sale Sharks
    10 Worcester Warriors
    11 Newcastle Falcons
    12 London Irish

    Silence is deafening!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    It's just like a game of Cluedo!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    I'll name the culprit:

    N Wray.

    Sorry, sorry, that's too obvious.

    Let's try:

    Nigel W.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Im not so certain we can trust the list of club's who haven't made a statement as being the 3 who were investigated. As Brian Moore pointed out a lot of the clubs just said they hadn't exceeded the cap, not that they weren't investigated. I don't think Leicester were investigated, but of course it's impossible to know for sure.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Bailey Crooked Walkway


    Good interview here with the CEO of Northampton.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Certain people in the media would have you believe that Northampton were one of 3 clubs investigated. Good interview nonetheless even if I'm still inclined to believe it's them, Sarries and Bath who are the three.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Statement from Bath:

    http://www.bathrugby.com/news/bath-rugby-statement-3/
    In response to recent speculation, Bath Rugby would like to clarify its position for the 2014/2015 season.

    Bath Rugby can confirm the Club was within the salary cap for the 2014/15 season. The cap for the 2014/15 season was £4.76m before allowances and credits. Bath Rugby’s salary cap spend was £4.71m during that period. Bath Rugby can also reassure supporters that the Club’s spend will be within the salary cap for the 2015/2016 season.

    The Club is committed to spending up to the cap to provide the best squad possible. We have one of the smaller squads in the Premiership, which comprised 36 senior players including 14 international players in the 2014/15 season.

    Bath Rugby would also like to clarify its position regarding the salary cap debate. English clubs have been significantly disadvantaged both within domestic and European competitions. The clubs representing England in Europe have been expected to compete with European clubs, who have a spend of up to 100% more on their squads. These same English clubs also lose international players for one third of the domestic season with no cap relief. This system was inherently unfair, open to challenge and was in need of fundamental change.

    The new Salary Framework, voted and approved unanimously by the shareholders of Premiership Rugby (PRL) last week, enables clubs to recruit cover for players called up for international fixtures, provides funding for clubs to compete equally with European clubs, provides enhanced incentives for the development of young English players, and simplifies the administration of the system.

    The new defined salary framework is a much fairer system for all clubs. It will provide increased investment for all the clubs, funded 100% from central income. It will allow Premiership clubs to compete on a fairer playing field both domestically and in Europe and it will promote the production and development of English talent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Bath head coach Mike Ford is cautious of clubs in rugby beginning to overspend on players
    "We've got to be careful not to create a monster because otherwise it will become like football. It's everyone's responsibility within the sport for it not to be like that. Hopefully we've still got a lid on it."

    http://www.planetrugby.com/news/baths-ford-warns-of-financial-monster/

    April Fools has come early..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    Winters wrote: »
    Bath head coach Mike Ford is cautious of clubs in rugby beginning to overspend on players



    http://www.planetrugby.com/news/baths-ford-warns-of-financial-monster/

    April Fools has come early..

    Few days after they signed faletau and 5-6 weeks after they paid a fee for dave denton


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Ian Nagle and Jerry Sexton have joined Premiership club London Irish on short-term deals until the end of the season.

    http://www.the42.ie/ian-nagle-jerry-sexton-london-irish-2584485-Feb2016/?utm_source=shortlink


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Hon Exeter


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Saracens taking a beating of London Welsh proportions today. Losing 64-23 at home to Wasps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Crimsonforce


    matthew8 wrote: »
    Saracens taking a beating of London Welsh proportions today. Losing 64-23 at home to Wasps.

    What an absolute pasting Saracens took. Piatau, if he turns up to Ulster, will be some addition...I doubt he will end up there...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    What an absolute pasting Saracens took. Piatau, if he turns up to Ulster, will be some addition...I doubt he will end up there...

    Why do you doubt it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Crimsonforce


    bilston wrote: »
    Why do you doubt it?

    The money now involved at wasps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭RobbieRuns


    He will play for Ulster, already has signed and can't go back on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    What an absolute pasting Saracens took. Piatau, if he turns up to Ulster, will be some addition...I doubt he will end up there...

    Wolfpack me arse....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Swan Curry


    Saracens have conceded eighteen tries this season. Eight of them were from today's match. That's a mad stat


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,576 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    How many international players were they missing? They're nothing without the Farreler.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Worcester have signed Francois Hougaard. It's scary that low level English clubs can attract that profile of a player.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Crimsonforce


    Worcester have signed Francois Hougaard. It's scary that low level English clubs can attract that profile of a player.

    Wonder what happens to him and Ben teo if they get relegated this year..


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭RobbieRuns


    Wonder what happens to him and Ben teo if they get relegated this year..

    They play the English Championship and B&I Cup !


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