Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Is there a law that an Irish employer needs to pay to any account

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Log9


    Asmooh wrote: »
    I want to know who has access to my transaction history except me and the bank.
    Who can request information about me, when and what I used my card for.
    What goverments can just request anything they want without a court order and the bank will just apply with it.


    All those things.

    Similar to almost any other Western European country. There are fairly significant safeguards in place under banking regulations and data protection law.

    However, the Revenue Commissioners can access them as part of an investigation and very large lodgements / deposits are notified by the bank to revenue.

    There's nothing particularly lacking or unusual about Irish data protection or anti money laundering laws.

    Are you trying to launder money or take large payments for income you're not declaring? something!!??

    That would quite likely be caught by Dutch and Irish authorities anyway. Similar rules apply in all EU countries and they've been enhanced due to concerns about finding terrorism in recent months.

    Unless you're up to something very dodgy with your finances, you really haven't anything to worry about.

    You can also be sure the SEPA system is being monitored and tapped into by various international security agencies - especially the US, UK, France and so on.

    It sounds like your employer is just blissfully unaware that they can pay to any SEPA account with cost or complication. They would have moved their payroll to SEPA and away from the older national system last year but a lot of organisations still haven't quite comprehended that they can use it cost free.

    The only current issue is that the national Direct Debit scheme setup is electronic and can be done automatically over the phone or online by Irish account holders where as non Irish accounts need a paper mandate as there's no system for a SEPA version of "Direct Debit Plus" at present.

    For credits, they just need an account number.

    Where they might have concerns is around your state of residence for calculating your income tax. Although, that is deducted at source if you're paying PAYE. It isn't really their problem as long as you've Irish tax credits setup.

    Bear in mind that if you've an Irish income paid to a Dutch account and you're still officially resident in NL, it's the Dutch tax authorities who will be interested, not the Irish ones.

    There's a double taxation agreement but where Irish income tax is lower, you'd be potentially required to file a return and pay the difference to NL.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Asmooh


    Victor wrote: »
    Bear in mind that if you've an Irish income paid to a Dutch account and you're still officially resident in NL, it's the Dutch tax authorities who will be interested, not the Irish ones.

    Im not living in The netherlands anymore, just dont want to use irish accounts because of the high fees.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,407 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    OP is within his right to nominate a bank account within the SEPA zone for his wages to be paid into. It's normal practice. His company just can't be bothered doing it for him. It's akin to the firm telling him they can only pay to a bank account of their choosing.

    Legally, he may have some recourse under REGULATION (EU) No 260/2012 which states that an employer can't refuse payment to a European SEPA account.

    Get in touch with the Central Bank of Ireland for clarification.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,902 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Asmooh wrote: »
    Im not living in The netherlands anymore, just dont want to use irish accounts because of the high fees.

    Use Permanent TSB or Ulster Bank. No fees for personal account holders.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Log9


    Use Permanent TSB or Ulster Bank. No fees for personal account holders.

    Yeah you've also got KBC and also Wirecard bank of you're not bothered about cash transactions.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Log9


    Tazz T wrote: »
    OP is within his right to nominate a bank account within the SEPA zone for his wages to be paid into. It's normal practice. His company just can't be bothered doing it for him. It's akin to the firm telling him they can only pay to a bank account of their choosing.

    Legally, he may have some recourse under REGULATION (EU) No 260/2012 which states that an employer can't refuse payment to a European SEPA account.

    Get in touch with the Central Bank of Ireland for clarification.

    There's no technical reason why they can't. It's even worse than "Computa says no" as they haven't even attempted it.

    It's likely / certain their payment system won't care what bank details are entered as long as there's a valid IBAN. (BIC is still required but it's not going to be for much longer)

    I've had similar issues on the continent. A Belgian utility flatly refused to setup a debit to an Irish account. I quoted everything at them in terms of legislation and they just hung up on me.

    Also had major issues using an Irish debit card for recurring payments in Spain.
    That being said, I had someone refuse my Spanish debit card in Spain because she couldn't understand why I had a Spanish card and no Spanish ID card and wouldn't accept my passport as ID so I had to abandon an entire trolley of groceries. She then started telling me if I didn't put all the groceries back, she'd call the police!!!

    Such a welcoming attitude towards people spending money in your community and creating demand for services. Xenophobia is horrible to be on the receiving end of.

    SEPA works in theory but you find some bureaucracies are just totally unaware of it.

    There is a genuine issue with Direct Debit plus authorisations though, so paper mandates are required.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Asmooh


    I got an email back
    Dear Asmooh,
    Our payroll system does not allow us to enter international bank accounts. Also as per the policy all employees need to get paid on or before the 28th and paying into international bank accounts would not meet the criteria. I understand your frustration, but unfortunately it is not something that we can accommodate.
    Thank you,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Log9


    Asmooh wrote: »
    I got an email back

    Still doesn't make any sense. They key a SEPA account for Irish transactions. There is absolutely no distinction between an IE and NL account. All the processing is absolutely identical. The date makes no difference.

    That or there using some real mess of a system that's using Irish sort codes and 8 digit numbers and then translating them ...

    They clearly think it's a problem when in reality it isn't.

    I don't think you'll get anywhere though. These company bureaucracies can be even less flexible than state ones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭Diamond Doll


    I work in finance/payroll, and with our accounting system, we prepare a bulk payments file for monthly payroll which is uploaded onto our online banking system for approval. This can only be done for payments to Irish bank accounts - any payments to other countries need to be uploaded and approved separately.

    Which isn't a particularly massive deal, but it's still hassle, and it complicates the audit trail. Plus of course there's additional charges involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Asmooh


    I work in finance/payroll, and with our accounting system, we prepare a bulk payments file for monthly payroll which is uploaded onto our online banking system for approval. This can only be done for payments to Irish bank accounts - any payments to other countries need to be uploaded and approved separately.

    Which isn't a particularly massive deal, but it's still hassle, and it complicates the audit trail. Plus of course there's additional charges involved.
    So there is something wrong with the payroll system?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Log9


    Asmooh wrote: »
    So there is something wrong with the payroll system?

    Sure, as per most pan-EU things it takes years for people to realise they actually work and they're implemented in a half-arsed way.

    France and Belgium for example didn't really bother to implement the 112 emergency number for example.

    I've had UK call centres asking me if I was using "Irish Euros" or "French Euros" because there were two different prices and they actually thought they were different currencies, rather than that they were just shafting us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭Diamond Doll


    Asmooh wrote: »
    So there is something wrong with the payroll system?

    No, it's actually the online banking system that would reject the file. So not something we'd have control over.


  • Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have a friend with a Deutsche Bank account abroad. It is technically WAY better than the offerings of the irish banks, and free too, and has nice credit card and investment arrangements.

    Why should the OP be forced, contrary to Irish and EU law, to use an inferior product just because his employers systems are antiquated?


  • Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, it's actually the online banking system that would reject the file. So not something we'd have control over.


    So, Irish banks are putting up obstacles to people using non-Irish banks...
    Who would have thought it....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭blindside88


    I have a friend with a Deutsche Bank account abroad. It is technically WAY better than the offerings of the irish banks, and free too, and has nice credit card and investment arrangements.

    Why should the OP be forced, contrary to Irish and EU law, to use an inferior product just because his employers systems are antiquated?

    He is not being forced to do anything contrary to Irish or EU law. If the employer wished they can pay him by cheque and let him worry about cashing it. The phase mountain and molehill comes to mind


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭mickoneill31


    The op was initially concerned with Irish privacy. Now he's concerned with high fees.
    Irish privacy law and data protection is amongst the best in Europe. Yes I'm sure revenue and the Guards have legal ways of accessing your details if they suspect you're doing something dodgy.
    High fees can be gotten around as previous posters have shown with different accounts.

    All of this could be solved by just putting it in your application letter something like "If successful in this role I will require my wages to be sent to my foreign bank account". Then it's simple. Either he's great and worth the messing about or the CV goes in the bin. Everybodys happy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Asmooh


    The op was initially concerned with Irish privacy. Now he's concerned with high fees.
    Irish privacy law and data protection is amongst the best in Europe. Yes I'm sure revenue and the Guards have legal ways of accessing your details if they suspect you're doing something dodgy.
    High fees can be gotten around as previous posters have shown with different accounts.

    All of this could be solved by just putting it in your application letter something like "If successful in this role I will require my wages to be sent to my foreign bank account". Then it's simple. Either he's great and worth the messing about or the CV goes in the bin. Everybodys happy.

    I think it should be just a rule that anyone can choose the account they want to get paid into, sure I can transfer it every month but it would be nicer if they could just transfer to any account


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭toadfly


    OP it seems to me that you are being difficult for the sake of it. I work in Payroll and we only pay our Irish staff into Irish accounts. As another poster said, banks wont accept an international transfer with our bulk Irish payment run.

    Just set up a PTSB account, I have one and dont pay any fees.

    You seem to be looking for issues where there really arent any.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Asmooh


    toadfly wrote: »
    OP it seems to me that you are being difficult for the sake of it. I work in Payroll and we only pay our Irish staff into Irish accounts. As another poster said, banks wont accept an international transfer with our bulk Irish payment run.

    Just set up a PTSB account, I have one and dont pay any fees.

    You seem to be looking for issues where there really arent any.

    why do they always need to call you? I dont have time to call all the time for every single little thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭toadfly


    Asmooh wrote: »
    why do they always need to call you? I dont have time to call all the time for every single little thing.

    Who needs to call me?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭PaddyTheNth


    So, Irish banks are putting up obstacles to people using non-Irish banks...
    Who would have thought it....

    They've come a long way on the consumer end technology-wise in the last 5-6 years, but some of the business functionality is still rather archaic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    It looks like your company/payroll system/company bank are not compliant with SEPA:

    http://www.centralbank.ie/paycurr/sepa/Documents/sepa%20migration%20guide.pdf
    Finally, in a SEPA context consumers can no longer be obliged by a payer or payee to maintain a bank account in any particular country for the purposes of making or receiving payments. An account anywhere in SEPA can make or receive a eurodenominated electronic payment from any other account in SEPA – for example, an Irish person working in France could have his French employer pay his salary directly to an Irish bank account and use that account to pay rent by direct debit for his or her apartment in France. Likewise, someone owning a holiday property in Spain could pay Spanish utility bills by direct debit from an Irish bank account, or alternatively
    just operate a bank account in Spain and use that account to pay Irish utility bills by direct debit. In summary, SEPA will allow consumers to bank wherever it suits them best and wherever they can obtain the best terms – they should no longer be constrained in this regard by national borders.

    Your situation is exactly what SEPA was designed to allow for. Millions have been spent by companies and banks all over the EU to make this work. Freedom of movement and a common market are at the core of what the EU and the Eurozone are supposed to achieve.

    The Central Bank doesn't give any detail on penalties for non-compliance so I don't know where to send you next, you could start by sending that PDF to your contact in payroll.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,122 ✭✭✭daheff


    Stheno wrote: »
    Not all EU countries are part of Sepa though?
    All EU countries + EEA (Iceland, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, UK, Monaco) -33 territories in total are part of the SEPA ZONE.


    toadfly wrote: »
    OP it seems to me that you are being difficult for the sake of it. I work in Payroll and we only pay our Irish staff into Irish accounts. As another poster said, banks wont accept an international transfer with our bulk Irish payment run.

    Just for clarity here, the OP is not looking for an international transfer. A SEPA Credit transfer is a domestic transfer. Standard SEPA CTs are next day settlement .
    toadfly wrote: »
    You seem to be looking for issues where there really arent any.
    I would disagree. OP is entitled to use any bank in SEPAZone for receiving salary.
    They've come a long way on the consumer end technology-wise in the last 5-6 years, but some of the business functionality is still rather archaic.


    I'm guessing the problem here is that the Payroll Dept don't understand this issue. The previous policy is probably stemming from the fact that pre-SEPA the NL bank account transfer would have been an intl transfer, and hence costing in the region of 20 EUR vs maybe 15c for a domestic transfer. Add that difference up over a year for a large company and its a significant amount.

    OP- stick to your guns. You are not in the wrong here. The payroll dept cannot demand you use an Irish bank anymore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭PaddyTheNth


    daheff wrote: »
    I'm guessing the problem here is that the Payroll Dept don't understand this issue. The previous policy is probably stemming from the fact that pre-SEPA the NL bank account transfer would have been an intl transfer, and hence costing in the region of 20 EUR vs maybe 15c for a domestic transfer. Add that difference up over a year for a large company and its a significant amount.

    Possibly that is so but until recently - and possibly currently - the software provided by at least one of the major banks couldn't process EFT files which included international payments. This was the case significantly post-SEPA implementation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭have2flushtwice


    your worried about banking privacy, and here you are on boards moaning about your employer?
    unless your a person of interest nobody cares


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Log9


    Seems like the bank that isn't compliant will get itself fined. Although sure, they'll just pass that into the customers or tax paying public.

    No consequences for incompetence in high finance circles.

    Get your bank bailed out and nationalised! Here : have a bonus!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,030 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Asmooh wrote: »
    I think it should be just a rule that anyone can choose the account they want to get paid into, sure I can transfer it every month but it would be nicer if they could just transfer to any account

    You think there should be - but the fact is that no one has been able to give you a legal reference to one.

    The closest is a law saying they can only pay in in one way.

    Lobby your TD if you think this needs changing - but don't be surprised if they don't see your issue as a priority electoral issue.



    Related question: can I demand that my wages by paid into an Irish Credit Union account, rather than a bank account?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭Rob Thomas


    You think there should be - but the fact is that no one has been able to give you a legal reference to one.

    The closest is a law saying they can only pay in in one way.

    Lobby your TD if you think this needs changing - but don't be surprised if they don't see your issue as a priority electoral issue.



    Related question: can I demand that my wages by paid into an Irish Credit Union account, rather than a bank account?

    I dont know about "demand" but I handle payroll here and some employees have their wages going to a credit union. There is no problem with the Bank we use in adding their appropriate IBAN and BIC to the file.

    Having checked our online system for the OP's query, I notice that the IE part of the IBAN is pre-populated so I would nt be able to pay a foreign bank account for him either as part of the normal payroll run. I would have to key a separate international transfer.

    Would be a pain for me too, Id just pay someone by cheque who insisted on not using an Irish account.


  • Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rob Thomas wrote: »
    I notice that the IE part of the IBAN is pre-populated so I would nt be able to pay a foreign bank account for him either as part of the normal payroll run.

    You just ask the bank to un-prepopulate it.

    The OP is being discriminated against and the excuses given in responses are that its just too much bother not to discriminate. Try that in other sectors of discrimination... and see what happens.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Neon_Lights


    If you don't mind me asking OP where do you work?


Advertisement
Advertisement