Is there a law that an Irish employer needs to pay to any account

Asmooh · 08-12-2015 08:58AM #1

Hello,

I ask HR to pay to my Dutch bank account, and they say its their policy that they can and should only pay to an Irish bank account.

So i'm looking for some information, is there a law that tells us that an employer should pay to any (also non irish) account the employee is giving because for whatever reason you don't want to use an Irish account (nomatter what reason).

Thanks for the information

Stheno · 08-12-2015 09:06AM

No law I'm aware of, they are perfectly entitled to have their policy though

Tom Dunne · 08-12-2015 09:17AM

I'd be curious as to how a law would be written on employer's methods of payment to employees.

Timing, taxing, rates, definitely. But the mechanism of actually paying employees? I can't see how that would work.

toadfly · 08-12-2015 09:25AM

It could be that their bank cannot process an international payment in their usual payment run for wages so makes sense to me that they dont do it. It would take more time and cost them more. No reason to do it.

thesimpsons · 08-12-2015 11:26PM

I know that a few years ago we had this request. We'd send a full payroll to the bank in one file (about 80 employees all together). The payroll system we were using couldn't handle the foreign bank's details that the one employee requested. Maybe systems can handle it now or maybe that's your employers reasoning.

davo10 · 09-12-2015 07:21AM

Op, why can't you just transfer the money electronically from your Irish account to your Dutch account yourself. All you need is the IBAN and BIC details. It would take less time than the phone call to HR.

Asmooh · 09-12-2015 07:44AM

davo10 wrote: »

Op, why can't you just transfer the money electronically from your Irish account to your Dutch account yourself. All you need is the IBAN and BIC details. It would take less time than the phone call to HR.

Because it's easier than doing it manual every time? And we don't call to hr just an email.
And it's not the fact I can do it manual, if there is a Irish or European law that tells us that they need to I want to get my right because that's the law

Sir Oxman · 09-12-2015 07:47AM

I would have thought since it's all SEPA (IBANs and BICs) now that that request would be perfectly normal.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 09-12-2015 07:48AM

I'd say your hr department love you.

Nichard Dixon · 09-12-2015 07:52AM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I'd say your hr department love you.

The EU spent years getting a single payment system in place and the OPs employer couldn't be arsed using it, which is clear discrimination against people from other member states.

PCX · 09-12-2015 07:57AM

Set up a standing order from the irish account to your other account that goes a few days after your normal payday.

Easy to do and you would only need to do this once so no recurring hassle.

dudara · 09-12-2015 07:59AM

I don't believe there's any law in place to support your request. The only onus on your employer is that they should pay you. They could pay you by cheque if they so wished, but thankfully, most companies have moved on from that.

With SEPA in place, the bank should be able to handle all payments, but perhaps your employers systems might not be capable. I also wonder if thre are foreign payment or money-laundering implications.

Asmooh · 09-12-2015 08:04AM

PCX wrote: »

Set up a standing order from the irish account to your other account that goes a few days after your normal payday.

Easy to do and you would only need to do this once so no recurring hassle.

But it will still be registered under my irish account and I have no clue how they handle privacy in ireland.

Stheno · 09-12-2015 08:08AM

Asmooh wrote: »

But it will still be registered under my irish account and I have no clue how they handle privacy in ireland.

What concerns do you have around privacy?

Rock of Gibraltar · 09-12-2015 08:44AM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I'd be curious as to how a law would be written on employer's methods of payment to employees.

Timing, taxing, rates, definitely. But the mechanism of actually paying employees? I can't see how that would work.

Payment of Wages Act, 1991.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1991/act/25/enacted/en/html

Section 2 pertains to modes:

2.—(1) Wages may be paid by and only by one or more of the following modes:

(a) a cheque, draft or other bill of exchange within the meaning of the Bills of Exchange Act, 1882 ,

(b) a document issued by a person who maintains an account with the Central Bank of Ireland or a holder of a licence under section 9 of the Central Bank Act, 1971 , which, though not such a bill of exchange as aforesaid, is intended to enable a person to obtain payment from that bank or that holder of the amount specified in the document,

(c) a draft payable on demand drawn by a holder of such a licence as aforesaid upon himself, whether payable at the head office or some other office of the bank to which the licence relates,

(d) a postal, money or paying order, or a warrant, or any other like document, issued by or drawn on An Post or a document issued by an officer of a Minister of the Government that is intended to enable a person to obtain payment from that Minister of the Government of the sum specified in the document,

(e) a document issued by a person who maintains an account with a trustee savings bank within the meaning of the Trustee Savings Banks Act, 1989 , that is intended to enable a person to obtain payment from the bank of the sum specified in the document,

(f) a credit transfer or another mode of payment whereby an amount is credited to an account specified by the employee concerned,

(g) cash,

(h) any other mode of payment standing specified for the time being by regulations made by the Minister after consultation with the Minister for Finance.

(2) Where wages fall to be paid to an employee by a mode other than cash at a time when, owing to a strike or other industrial action affecting a financial institution, cash is not readily available to the employee, the employer concerned shall, if the employee consents, pay the wages by another mode (other than cash) specified in subsection (1) and, if the employee does not so consent, pay them in cash.

(3) An employer who pays wages to an employee otherwise than by a mode specified in subsection (1) or contravenes subsection (2) shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000.

So my reading from that is that your employer has to pay into whatever account you specify, failure to do so could result in a £1,000 fine.

I'd inquire further about this policy before going down any legal route though, is it that they are unable or unwilling to do so?. I'd also argue that any SEPA account is a domestic account.

mickoneill31 · 09-12-2015 08:50AM

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

Payment of Wages Act, 1991.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1991/act/25/enacted/en/html

Section 2 pertains to modes:

So my reading from that is that your employer has to pay into whatever account you specify, failure to do so could result in a £1,000 fine.

I'd inquire further about this policy before going down any legal route though, is it that they are unable or unwilling to do so?. I'd also argue that any SEPA account is a domestic account.

In line one it says one or more. So they can pay by cheque and be compliant.

Nichard Dixon · 09-12-2015 08:51AM

An employer can pay in cash, but if they pay by credit transfer I doubt if they can prescribe what bank the employee should use, this is the employee's business.

davo10 · 09-12-2015 08:53AM

Legal route? In the greater scheme of employee problems, I suspect this ranks at the very bottom. Op set up a standing order, there may be times when you need money in your Irish account and it would be easy to suspend the SO if you need to. Also, if you ever want to apply for credit/mortgage etc, it would benefit you with your bank to have some money on deposit and a history of regular lodgements/savings.

09-12-2015 09:13AM

With IBANs fully implemented now there should be no obstacle to paying into any EU account. Indeed it would seem wrong under EU law to discriminate based on the Member State in which the employees bank account is located.

Its not the employees fault that the payroll systems at his employers are obsolete and probably still work on sort codes.

With computer banking there is no reason for the OP to open an irish bank account. Indeed PC banking in many of the European banks is light years ahead that offered by Irish banks.

Asmooh · 09-12-2015 09:18AM

Stheno wrote: »

What concerns do you have around privacy?

all of them, they are not clear enough.

Stheno · 09-12-2015 09:19AM

Asmooh wrote: »

all of them, they are not clear enough.

That doesn't make any sense tbh what speecifically is your issue?

Stheno · 09-12-2015 09:20AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

With IBANs fully implemented now there should be no obstacle to paying into any EU account. Indeed it would seem wrong under EU law to discriminate based on the Member State in which the employees bank account is located.

Its not the employees fault that the payroll systems at his employers are obsolete and probably still work on sort codes.

With computer banking there is no reason for the OP to open an irish bank account. Indeed PC banking in many of the European banks is light years ahead that offered by Irish banks.

Not all EU countries are part of Sepa though?

09-12-2015 09:23AM

Stheno wrote: »

Not all EU countries are part of Sepa though?

All EU states, plus the former EFSA ones as well.

Asmooh · 09-12-2015 09:25AM

Stheno wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense tbh what speecifically is your issue?

I want to know who has access to my transaction history except me and the bank.
Who can request information about me, when and what I used my card for.
What goverments can just request anything they want without a court order and the bank will just apply with it.

All those things.

Stheno · 09-12-2015 09:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

All EU states, plus the former EFSA ones as well.

Thanks, didn't realise the extent of it, thought the Uk was not in it for one

PaddyTheNth · 09-12-2015 09:50AM

At a stretch there could be human trafficking concerns on the employer's part if they're asked to pay to a foreign bank account, but these concerns are more commonly around wages paid in cash or multiple employees paid into the same bank account.

09-12-2015 09:53AM

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

At a stretch there could be human trafficking concerns on the employer's part if they're asked to pay to a foreign bank account,

That would be a Ginormous stretch...wouldnt stand up.

endagibson · 09-12-2015 10:18AM

He could set up a standing order from his Irish bank account. Of course, his Irish bank will then charge him every time the standing order activates.

Op, be reasonable to the employer. Give no details for your Irish bank account. Offer them the option of paying you via your foreign bank account or by cheque. The choice is theirs as to how they want to proceed.

Mrs OBumble · 09-12-2015 10:18AM

OP, realistically, how much do you want to piss-off your HR department.

One Irish bank account, one standing order. Hardly a privacy nightmare.

Frankly, if I was your employer and you asked for something like that which my poayroll software couldn't do, then I would start paying you by cheque and making the cheque-cashing your problem.

Eugene Norman · 09-12-2015 10:35AM

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

An employer can pay in cash, but if they pay by credit transfer I doubt if they can prescribe what bank the employee should use, this is the employee's business.

Of course they can. F doesn't imply that any account worldwide can be used, or that any account can be used because there are other payment options.

Victor · 09-12-2015 10:43AM

Asmooh wrote: »

I want to know who has access to my transaction history except me and the bank.
Who can request information about me, when and what I used my card for.
What goverments can just request anything they want without a court order and the bank will just apply with it.

All those things.

See the Data Protection Acts 1988 and 2003.

Anyone can request anything. However, an order will only be granted where there is a good reason to grant it. Obvious cases would be Revenue or the Department of Social Protection, both of whom would be more interested in income than expenditure. The Garda could request an order if they can demonstrate a connection with an investigation.

In theory, their foreign equivalents could ask for the same, but there would be more hoops to jump through. I imagine this would be no different to the Dutch situation.

If you are engaged in tax fraud or some other nefarious activity, well, we're not going to help you.

Is there a law that an Irish employer needs to pay to any account

Comments