The greed of the Irish strikes again....Adele concert!!!

Drakares · 05-12-2015 11:07AM

Azalea wrote: »

Probably because you see more Irish people full stop. You're Irish - do you screw over others a lot?

I have never seen an Afghan lad acting like this... Typical Irish....

I have never been to Afghanistan.

Drakares · 05-12-2015 11:09AM

Youngblood.III wrote: »

Mmmmm....government has to bring in 2yr rent freeze because rents were been increased and landlords costs were not....simply greed!

This is called real estate economics.

Banjo String · 05-12-2015 12:10PM

Made five grand on Robbie Williams last gig in Croke park, and don't care who knows it.

Five sets on eBay, all in "premier seating".

I forced no one to buy them.

Also, this

OU812 · 05-12-2015 12:37PM

This thread (& I'm not directing this at the OP, it's just a generalisation), is indicative of the snivelling whiney attitude of people who aren't prepared to fight for anything. They just want it handed to them (not water protestors, I'm with them).

You have to work hard to get what you want, you're not entitled to anything. I wanted to go to U2 & tried to get tickets but due to not working hard enough when they first went on sale was unable to, then when they released more, I was away & unable to get them. I was disappointed, but it was my own fault.

All you see to hear is people whining about the landlord "putting the rent up" - he's entitled to & if you don't like it, you can move on, he'll either get someone to pay the new rent or lose out. Or "Ticket touts should be banned" - it's not illegal to resell tickets, what you sell them for depends on what people are prepared to pay.

If you're not prepared to put in the work to get a mortgage together or make an extra effort to get your tickets, that's your problem, nobody else's. I know someone who was able to get 12 tickets for Adele, almost no effort. Just put a little work in at the start.

The entire audience at Adele is going to be single girls & middle aged dentists/doctors/lawyers anyway. If you're not one of these, you've no business being there.

Save the drama, you're not entitled to anything you don't work for.

padd b1975 · 05-12-2015 01:13PM

She has got to be the most high-maintenance woman on the face of the planet, I just don't understand her popularity.

A powerful voice admittedly, but a pretty average songwriter.

dr.fuzzenstein · 05-12-2015 02:21PM

Figbiscuithead wrote: »

Greed is everywhere. From American multinationals with sweatshops in India, from corrupt politicians in Spain, Greece and Italy, from European nations who've been happy to colonise/invade poorer countries for their natural resources right up to the current day etc. Greed is an exclusively Irish trait me hole and ticket touting happens absolutely EVERYWHERE.

I would absolutely agree with that. And you don't get proper corruption here, like in the US or mainland Europe. Here it's a few thousand in an envelope so someone can build a housing estate or petrol station on farmland, in the other places we're talking about billions! Ireland is very much in a ha'penny place compared to that.

It's like Avenue United vs Bayern Muenchen. So no, if anything Ireland is not as bad.
What we have here is more cronyism, nepotism and a general atmosphere of nobody wanting to step on anyone's toes. Because Mr X may be corrupt and useless, but he's your dad's 3rd cousin and if you now said something against him, there would be too much awkwardness in the family. So just leave him alone, sure he's not doing anyone any harm.
That will forever be like that, because everyone knows everyone.

edit:
As for rents going up, it's not so much greed, but Irish politics revolves around "who is doing well right now, we'll see about that, we'll tax the bejaysis out of them!" No supply and high demand=high prices. It's more to do with crappy or non existent planning rather than any conscious decision to be greedy. The tax thing is more "look at him doing well, I'll fix his wagon!"

ThisRegard · 05-12-2015 02:23PM

Banjo String wrote: »

Made five grand on Robbie Williams last gig in Croke park, and don't care who knows it.

Five sets on eBay, all in "premier seating".

I forced no one to buy them.

Also, this

Who'd have thunk it, a good socialist like yourself is in fact a stereotypical capitalist pig!

Canadel · 05-12-2015 02:42PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Who'd have thunk it, a good socialist like yourself is in fact a stereotypical capitalist pig!

If I had known that Adele tickets would be in such high demand I probably would have done similar myself, but as she's sh*t I assumed it safer not to. Lesson learnt, people like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people.

KomradeBishop · 05-12-2015 02:53PM

It's stupidly easy to stop the majority of touting, now that you can e.g. link tickets to mobile phones, and use a wider range of technological methods to make touting a lot harder:
http://www.stuff.tv/features/how-technology-killing-ticket-tout

TicketMaster could easily do this if they wanted to, they have the resources, but obviously they don't want to. The main solution to this, is to completely boycott TicketMaster - and this is easier than you think:
Don't just boycott them yourself, contact all the artists you're a fan of who sell tickets through ticketmaster, and link them to their exploitative practices, and link them to some of the alternatives/solutions.

Some other countries - as the above article describes - also have regulations for limiting the resale value of tickets; so you could also lobby for such regulations to be brought into force here, if they are not already, so touts would be at legal risk if they exceed the original price too much.

Saying "because people will pay for it..." is never an excuse for anything. Ticket reselling at ridiculously inflated prices, which benefits nobody other than the touts, is rent seeking behaviour aimed at disadvantaging fans - so this is something both artists and fans should be well pissed off at, and is sufficiently unethical that it justifies well placed regulation.

Canadel · 05-12-2015 03:11PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Saying "because people will pay for it..." is never an excuse for anything. Ticket reselling at ridiculously inflated prices, which benefits nobody other than the touts, is rent seeking behaviour aimed at disadvantaging fans - so this is something both artists and fans should be well pissed off at, and is sufficiently unethical that it justifies well placed regulation.

Sure it is; it's just not an excuse for everything. The trouble with being a fanatic is that you allow yourself to be exploited quite easily. The truth is that artists care a lot less about fans than fans do about artists.

KomradeBishop · 05-12-2015 03:14PM

Also: 'Supply and Demand' isn't a universal moral rule ffs, it's for trying to describe the economics behind a market, not for describing how things morally should be.

When it's piss easy to stop an exploitative pricing practice - particularly when it's down to something of fixed supply - and someone tells you "supply and demand, live with it", they are basically telling you to accept being screwed, and are trying to present doing something to fix that as either impossible or immoral.

Morals aren't based on 'supply and demand'. In many markets of limited supply, such as this one, it's piss easy to intervene to keep the pricing fair.

KomradeBishop · 05-12-2015 03:15PM

Canadel wrote: »

Sure it is; it's just not an excuse for everything. The trouble with being a fanatic is that you allow yourself to be exploited quite easily. The truth is that artists care a lot less about fans than fans do about artists.

It isn't - as said in my previous post, it's not a moral rule, it inherently can't be used to justify anything.

bnt · 05-12-2015 04:39PM

The only way I'll pay for a concert these days is if I know it substantially helps an artist who, in my opinion, deserves it. Adele doesn't need your money, and most of the cost of these tickets isn't going to her anyway. Even before the touts get involved, you're paying for PR people, advertising lawyers, big screens, pyrotechnics, all kinds of things that are not music.

Paulzx · 05-12-2015 04:46PM

bnt wrote: »

Even before the touts get involved, you're paying for PR people, advertising lawyers, big screens, pyrotechnics, all kinds of things that are not music.

But sure that applies to any type of entertainment or shows that are held in any sort of public theatre, hall or pub etc.

The only way you can listen to a music show and not make a contribution to the people you mention is to sit in your garden and listen to the birds singing

Hannibal Smith · 05-12-2015 04:46PM

I think the price if the tickets was outrageous to start with. Werent they €70 a ticket or something?

The J Stands for Jay · 05-12-2015 08:05PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I think the price if the tickets was outrageous to start with. Werent they €70 a ticket or something?

I heard someone paying €120 face value.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 05-12-2015 08:10PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I think the price if the tickets was outrageous to start with. Werent they €70 a ticket or something?

Is that not standard enough for a big name artist?

Azalea · 05-12-2015 08:10PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I think the price if the tickets was outrageous to start with. Werent they €70 a ticket or something?

Thought they'd cost more - that's actually pretty standard, for an act even that's not as popular as Adele!

GreatDefector · 05-12-2015 08:19PM

cassid wrote: »

Maybe limit the amount of tickets per person. You can purchase 50 tickets at once on ticket master.

Absolute rubbish

The Rape of Lucretia · 05-12-2015 08:24PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

This is in no way unique to Ireland

Its the free market, baby ! Fortunately, happens in all well functioning economies. The richer are entitled to get their hands on tickets to limited supply events more than the poor. Touts are the grease that lubricate the wheels of the market. Are a good thing. And to be applauded for their entrepreneurialism.

RedemptionZ · 05-12-2015 08:54PM

Fans being exploited...cmon now. Using emotive words like exploitation when talking about concert tickets is completely melodramatic. Nobody is forcing these people to buy these tickets. It's a concert, they'll live without going to it. This isn't raising the price of food, rent or even clothes. This is a complete luxury not available to the majority of the planet. If I could make a 5K profit on concert tickets I'd do it in a heartbeat. People really need some perspective calling others scum for selling concert tickets above cost price.

readytosnap · 05-12-2015 10:56PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Is that not standard enough for a big name artist?

Big name? there's only 5 letters

dd972 · 05-12-2015 10:59PM

Youngblood.III wrote: »

'One fan, who failed to secure regular tickets on the main Ticketmaster site, was quoted a price of €1275.16 for four tickets, plus €227.96 booking fee for a total cost of €1503 via Seatserve'

I'd pay that not to see her or more precisely hear her! :pac:

AgileMyth · 05-12-2015 11:05PM

Isn't the best way to eliminate touts simply to raise the price of tickets?

KomradeBishop · 05-12-2015 11:27PM

"Free Meerkats", "Nobody forced people to pay for them" (eh, it's not people being 'forced' to pay for anything that's the problem, it's the fúcking scalping...), and "supply and demand" - are not arguments, they are moral statements for how things should be (that scalping should be treated as morally ok - that so long as demand exists, any price is morally ok), which have no actual argument backing them.

There are absolutely loads of good arguments for why scalping is morally wrong, and nobody has come up with a single argument for why it should be allowed.

In the real world, markets are not left to run by themselves - neither should they be, when there are valid moral concerns against that, which aren't overridden by the potential harm of intervening.

There are a multitude of piss easy solutions to stop the majority of touting presented in the thread - not a single good argument presented against implementing any of them, just greedy justifications presented for fúcking over fans for an easy profit.

Azalea · 05-12-2015 11:33PM

I agree the rip-off merchants are the ones primarily at fault but I guess people should just not buy off them. Of course that's easy to say - if it's a concert someone really really wants to go to, and they're extremely disappointed that it's sold out (and yes I know, a concert isn't one of life's essentials) some people will take advantage of that and jack the price up crazily, and it doesn't say anything good about them.

hynesie08 · 05-12-2015 11:53PM

dd972 wrote: »

I'd pay that not to see her or more precisely hear her! :pac:

Cool, I've got four bus tickets to Belfast, leaving before Adele in Dublin and coming back after the concert ends, €250 quid each.

RedemptionZ · 05-12-2015 11:55PM

Azalea wrote: »

I agree the rip-off merchants are the ones primarily at fault but I guess people should just not buy off them. Of course that's easy to say - if it's a concert someone really really wants to go to, and they're extremely disappointed that it's sold out (and yes I know, a concert isn't one of life's essentials) some people will take advantage of that and jack the price up crazily, and it doesn't say anything good about them.

If you have the money to spare to spend 500 quid on a ticket that I bought for 100 why should I care? If you should be saving it up then that's you being financially irresponsible. Again not my fault.

I've never touted tickets and probably never will as I have no real interest in concerts or shows but a similar situation would be a local pub near me, great music, food and good selection of reasonably priced drink. Started to get very popular and prices went up. Kept getting busier and prices rose to what I would find extortionate. I voted with my wallet and stopped going but enough people still do for it to stay in business and thus I can't afford to go anymore. Life goes on. If you can't afford to go to Adele because of ticket touts then move on, don't pay the fees just because you really really love her. If she cared half as much about her fans she'd see to it that some of the solutions to ticket touting are enforced.

KomradeBishop · 06-12-2015 01:09AM

Azalea wrote: »

I agree the rip-off merchants are the ones primarily at fault but I guess people should just not buy off them. Of course that's easy to say - if it's a concert someone really really wants to go to, and they're extremely disappointed that it's sold out (and yes I know, a concert isn't one of life's essentials) some people will take advantage of that and jack the price up crazily, and it doesn't say anything good about them.

It's not a market with free competition, where you can just choose to buy off someone else, it's a market with explicitly limited supply, where you get screwed by either:
1: Having to pay too much because of scalps, or,
2: Having to miss out on a concert because of scalps getting in early.

So the "just don't buy off them" argument does not apply - that solves nothing - it needs to be solved by actually tackling the touts, which is really incredibly easy to do.

The problem being, Ticketmaster aren't just avoiding taking any steps to tackle them, they are themselves in on the touting business - so they should be boycotted by both fans and artists, and fans should be contacting artists to encourage a boycott and to promote the available alternatives which touts can't exploit as easily.

KomradeBishop · 06-12-2015 01:37AM

Actually, reading up on this some more, it looks like it could be alleged that there is a cartel operating between TicketMaster/MCD and other event operators (given the history of these firms litigiousness, I'm not alleging anything :pac: just presenting the possibility) - and if so, it may actually be impossible for both artists and fans to avoid them.

Given this, the only way to break any potential/alleged cartel like this, is the use of regulations to force event operators to sell tickets through multiple competing ticket firms, so that there is actually some competition - and to possibly force regulations on how ticket operators verify the ownership of tickets, to clamp down on touts (which is very easy to do in a more reliable fashion, than is currently done).

One thing is for sure though: TicketMaster's use of touting firms, could possibly put them in the firing line of Ireland's competition authority - however, it seems possible that this competition authority may be suffering a bad case of regulatory capture, as they have given very favourable judgements on cases against TicketMaster in the past.

So what this means is, in addition to encouraging artists to go with a different ticket seller (which they have to negotiate with event operators), political lobbying would be important as well, for getting this resolved - however, in my opinion, Ireland is too corrupt politically for proper regulations to be put in place, and governments tend to work in favour of exploitative industries, at the expense of the public - if enough people generate enough noise over the issue, and do it in an organized fashion, it can be done though.

The greed of the Irish strikes again....Adele concert!!!

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