Body Shaming

01-12-2015 07:13PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

First you said there was none, now you say there is a "tiny movement". What mainstream, large-scale source has been singing the praises of obesity?

Well, we all know that Spock loved him some fat women. (NSFW\L, depending on your aversion to obesity, images)

01-12-2015 07:16PM

To me what happened is creepy and odd more that anything else, some fat obsessed weirdo felt coupled to get on the underground and had out cards to fat people telling they are fat.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 01-12-2015 07:16PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I’ve heard a tiny movement but never seen them get any credible media attention or large scale support when compared to those trying to normalise people being fat. For example I certainly haven’t seen a thread where numerous posters threatened violence towards someone being mean to one of theirs.

They mustn’t have enough weight behind their campaigns… :pac:

In terms of sheer numbers I'd say the pro-ana movement is many times the size of HAES. And any time any kind of Fat Positivity nonsense gets any kind of serious media attention, it's a 50:50 split in commentary between those who support it and those who very viciously oppose it. I'd also suggest that the odd bit of media attention given to that sort of thing is a teensy bit undermined by the fact that 99.99% of the people held up in the media as attractive are slim.

Buzzfeed, reddit and tumblr are not the whole world, and not an accurate reflection of society. Watch a film. Open a magazine. Watch some porn. Thin is in and it ain't going anywhere. I suspect many people who want to act like the situation is any different are just looking for a respectable veneer to call fat people names.

Foxtrol · 01-12-2015 07:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You obviously didn't look at some of the linked sites properly. There's some harrowing stuff on there.

I also don't think that "skinny" is the ideal, as such. Not anorexia levels of it. That is still seen as unhealthy by most of society.

No, I’m not going through every page of small scale thrown together websites when the group I’m comparing it to has massive social media campaigns which have even been latched onto by large corporations who now market/pander towards this group.

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Then you didn't really look at them, probably because you didn't want them to disprove your point.

If that’s the grand total of support for normalising people being underweight then you’ve proved my point. It pales in comparison.

Tarzana2 · 01-12-2015 07:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, we all know that Spock loved him some fat women. (NSFW\L, depending on your aversion to obesity, images)

I don't really see those images as promoting being fat, just saying "Well, if you are fat, why not try to be comfortable as you are now, even if you then begin to lose weight?" As someone who has lost weight in the past, it was realising I could be content being overweight that spurred me on to lose weight, as I realised I could be content whilst the process was ongoing.

Foxtrol · 01-12-2015 07:22PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

First you said there was none, now you say there is a "tiny movement". What mainstream, large-scale source has been singing the praises of obesity?

Please post where I said there was none.

I generally don't do that because on the internet I'm pretty sure I could find some level of support for anything, so having tiny support for something means nothing.

Tarzana2 · 01-12-2015 07:26PM

Kali Creamy City wrote: »

In terms of sheer numbers I'd say the pro-ana movement is many times the size of HAES. And any time any kind of Fat Positivity nonsense gets any kind of serious media attention, it's a 50:50 split in commentary between those who support it and those who very viciously oppose it. I'd also suggest that the odd bit of media attention given to that sort of thing is a teensy bit undermined by the fact that 99.99% of the people held up in the media as attractive are slim.

Buzzfeed, reddit and tumblr are not the whole world, and not an accurate reflection of society. Watch a film. Open a magazine. Watch some porn. Thin is in and it ain't going anywhere. I suspect many people who want to act like the situation is any different are just looking for a respectable veneer to call fat people names.

+1

Tarzana2 · 01-12-2015 07:31PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Please post where I said there was none.

The following seems to suggest you don't think they exist, though if you didn't think that, fair enough.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Can you link me a few online groups showing support for severely underweight being beautiful or how you can be healthy at any level of drunkenness?

As electrobitch said, pro-ana sites likely far outnumber fat-acceptance sites. And the mainstream fashion industry is basically one big thin-loving world. (Ranging from healthy slim in catalogue modelling to the walking skeletons of high fashion runway modelling) Plus-size modelling is on the fringes.

So actually, it's the fat acceptance sites that pale in comparison. I think your thesis here has been disproven, unless you'd like to show otherwise?

Azalea · 01-12-2015 07:33PM

Where do people get these avatars that show a photo of them (fat) and outline their political views (feminist) and which only certain people can see? A feature of Boards I wasn't aware of.

allandanyways · 01-12-2015 07:39PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Is it spreading though? Do people really want to be overweight now generally? I doubt it. And you even admit you see more and more people out exercising. This is telling me that it's not spreading.

There is huge business in plus-size clothing. $16.2 billion USD in 2013 and increasing to $17.5bn USD in 2014 (link)

People are getting bigger, so savvy mainstream fashion chains like New Look, Forever21, M&S, Dorothy Perkins/Evans (Arcadia Group) now stock plus sizes up to a size 32 (which is morbidly, morbidly obese). The clothes are more limited, and more expensive in a lot of cases, but most overweight and obese women will pay that money to have these XXXL size clothes rather than lose the weight for whatever reason. Penneys used to only stock up to a size 16, now they stock up to a size 20 because Irish women are getting fatter and not doing anything about it, plain and simple.

With the huge money in plus size clothing, mobility aids and the increase in reality tv shows based around "World's fattest man/woman" and fat fetishism (both also big revenue generators in the right markets), it's fairly obvious that there is a movement of overweight/obese people trying to perpetuate that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes for commercial gain, which is picked up by the overweight Joe/Joanna Soaps who say "Well, I'm not as fat as that lad and I can still get clothes in the high street, so I mustn't be so bad" which inhibits any motivation to lose weight.

Beauty is on the inside for sure. You can have a fat person who's a díckhead, and a skinny person who's a díckhead. For one or the other to be pushing their viewpoint and saying that it's "right" is farcical either way, because no "one" group is going to push the Western obesity epidemic in either direction.

We are far, far too privileged in this part of the world to realise how ridiculous it is that we have the time and inclination to body shame :rolleyes:

Foxtrol · 01-12-2015 07:43PM

Kali Creamy City wrote: »

In terms of sheer numbers I'd say the pro-ana movement is many times the size of HAES. And any time any kind of Fat Positivity nonsense gets any kind of serious media attention, it's a 50:50 split in commentary between those who support it and those who very viciously oppose it. I'd also suggest that the odd bit of media attention given to that sort of thing is a teensy bit undermined by the fact that 99.99% of the people held up in the media as attractive are slim.

What they’re the silent majority?

Of course any debate would/should have a 50:50 split, I’m not sure why that seems surprising to you. It’s however much easier to find such debates on widely watched media with one party trying to normalise overweight people than you’d find someone trying to normalise those underweight.

Buzzfeed, reddit and tumblr are not the whole world, and not an accurate reflection of society. Watch a film. Open a magazine. Watch some porn. Thin is in and it ain't going anywhere. I suspect many people who want to act like the situation is any different are just looking for a respectable veneer to call fat people names.

Bit of a strawman there, I’ve yet to see anyone say that thin isn’t in.

What I was questioning is the aggressive defense of overweight people when there isn’t similar levels for others with unhealthy lifestyles. Similarly, I see little media traction to hear those trying to normalise these lifestyles.

The closest I can think to the attention they get are those that are pro weed. However, even they are only looking for it to be legalised, not that everyone should accept that it is healthy to be incredibly stoned 24/7.

ThinkProgress · 01-12-2015 07:43PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

As electrobitch said, pro-ana sites likely far outnumber fat-acceptance sites.

But fat-acceptance sites should not exist at all. Period.

Plus-size modelling is on the fringes.

As it should be.

It would be a backward step for humanity to glorify the un-apologetically unhealthy.

Azalea · 01-12-2015 07:43PM

allandanyways wrote: »

+10000000 to this.

I used to be MASSIVE and I mean I was fcuking huge. My BMI was over 40 and I'm a 5 foot 6 woman. I was morbidly obese and lying to myself about how bad it was. I would brush off rejection from men with that "he just couldn't handle a real woman" bull. The truth of the matter was that I was really fcuking fat and lazy and one day it just clicked, and I've now more or less lost most of the weight and have my BMI in a normal range now.

Anyone who says they're not fat when they are is either lying to themselves or completely delusional. In either case, being overweight is no fun - you're wrecked all the time, clothes shopping is a nightmare, you're so aware of the fact that you're overweight (especially on planes) but for some people, they just learn to live with it. That does not give these clowns an excuse to hand them a bloody business card to let them know the obvious.

Being overweight and obese is not sexy, but we're conditioning ourselves as a society to accept is as such because it's easier than losing weight. Simples and I say that as someone who was fat. Losing weight is really, really hard.

Can't see how society is conditioning itself into accepting overweight/obese as sexy. The ideal is most certainly slim. Any celebrating of obesity as sexy is most definitely on the fringes.

Kev W · 01-12-2015 07:49PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

But fat-acceptance sites should not exist at all. Period.

The implication there seems to be that you have no problem with pro-ana sites. Would that be accurate?

Foxtrol · 01-12-2015 07:49PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

The following seems to suggest you don't think they exist, though if you didn't think that, fair enough.

I specifically said it that way as I expected the support to be small scale with little credibility, as it appears to be.

As electrobitch said, pro-ana sites likely far outnumber fat-acceptance sites. And the mainstream fashion industry is basically one big thin-loving world. (Ranging from healthy slim in catalogue modelling to the walking skeletons of high fashion runway modelling) Plus-size modelling is on the fringes.

So actually, it's the fat acceptance sites that pale in comparison. I think your thesis here has been disproven, unless you'd like to show otherwise?

This is the absolute hypocrisy of the HAES movement. Threaten to smash in faces or dance on people’s heads when they insult overweight people and then start calling underweight people skeletons.

I’m sure the same posters that jumped on every offensive post about overweight women will be posting again to pull you up on it.

ThinkProgress · 01-12-2015 07:50PM

Azalea wrote: »

Can't see how society is conditioning itself into accepting overweight/obese as sexy. The ideal is most certainly slim. Any celebrating of obesity as sexy is most definitely on the fringes.

Society as a whole isn't. But a large minority of people are... and since we are getting fatter each decade that passes... that minority is starting to expand just like people's waistlines! :P

ThinkProgress · 01-12-2015 07:53PM

Kev W wrote: »

The implication there seems to be that you have no problem with pro-ana sites. Would that be accurate?

Nope inaccurate.

But I don't feel like taking someone's bait by getting dragged into a different discussion... So I kept my remarks on topic!

allandanyways · 01-12-2015 07:58PM

Azalea wrote: »

Can't see how society is conditioning itself into accepting overweight/obese as sexy. The ideal is most certainly slim. Any celebrating of obesity as sexy is most definitely on the fringes.

There was an interesting video doing the rounds not too long ago showing a cartoonist editing a cartoon of one woman to show how the standards of beauty have changed over the last 100 years. The ideal now, in terms of mainstream media, seems to be big boobs, a tiny waist, flat stomach, big arse, toned legs.

Obesity is not sexy, I agree, but there's definitely a BBW market out there promoting overweight men and women as sexy, and I'm now talking particularly about the porn industry. I don't know who's buying/watching it, but it's there and promoting that same agenda that it's ok to be obese because all that fat is sexy and there's someone out there who wants to ride you. That's grand and all, but no amount of BBW positivity is going to stop them getting diabetes. It just reinforces that notion that it's ok to stay morbidly obese forever because there's enough convenience food, enough plus-size clothing, enough adjustable seat belts and enough people into BBWs that there's no need to lose weight.

(again, I say all of this as someone who used to be the size of a house and still managed to delude myself that all those rolls were sexy for too many years)

Tarzana2 · 01-12-2015 07:58PM

allandanyways wrote: »

There is huge business in plus-size clothing. $16.2 billion USD in 2013 and increasing to $17.5bn USD in 2014

And yet it is still dwarved by the mainstream fashion industry.

ThinkProgress has shown up, the death knell of a thread. Laters!

ThinkProgress · 01-12-2015 08:04PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

ThinkProgress has shown up, the death knell of a thread. Laters!

Aww... Did someone ruin your fun? Boo hoo :P

Sorry I ruined your attempt to derail the discussion away from the main issue! :pac:

Tarzana2 · 01-12-2015 08:05PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

This is the absolute hypocrisy of the HAES movement. Threaten to smash in faces or dance on people’s heads when they insult overweight people and then start calling underweight people skeletons.

One small thing before I take my leave of this thread: I'm not part of the HAES movement. Nor have I said made any explicit or covert allusion to violence.

Thank you and good night.

Foxtrol · 01-12-2015 08:07PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

One small thing before I take my leave of this thread: I'm not part of the HAES movement. Nor have I said made any explicit or covert allusion to violence.

Thank you and good night.

So you're ok with shaming, once it's skinny and not fat people that are the victims.

Pretty pathetic

captbarnacles · 01-12-2015 08:07PM

Obesity is not always unhealthy. You have some forms of MND it will prolong your lifespan and you are encouraged to eat plenty of calories.
It would be terrific for these dopes to hand someone with MND one of these cards?. That's just one medical condition but I guess there are many more it applies to.

The point is these idiots don't know anything about the person they are handing it to so besides being obnoxious it's just ridiculous.

smash · 01-12-2015 08:09PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Obesity is not always unhealthy. You have some forms of MND it will prolong your lifespan and you are encouraged to eat plenty of calories.

Having Motor Neurone Disease does not equal Obesity. The hell you talking about

captbarnacles · 01-12-2015 08:12PM

Eh where did i say that?????????

smash · 01-12-2015 08:15PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Eh where did i say that?????????

Well if MND doesn't mean Motor Neurone Disease then what exactly did you mean by it?

captbarnacles · 01-12-2015 08:17PM

Exactly what I said? if you have some forms of MND you live longer if you are obese or if you eat more than normal to increase your BMI.

Azalea · 01-12-2015 08:22PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're ok with shaming, once it's skinny and not fat people that are the victims.

Pretty pathetic

It would be if that's what she actually said.

Going by that logic so, ThinkProgress is in favour of pro ana websites.

ThinkProgress · 01-12-2015 08:25PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

That's just one medical condition but I guess there are many more it applies to.

Yeah. And sure even if there isn't anything "officially" wrong with you, sure you could always just make something up too!

smash · 01-12-2015 08:34PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Exactly what I said? if you have some forms of MND you live longer if you are obese or if you eat more than normal to increase your BMI.

This in no way means that Obesity isn't unhealthy.

Body Shaming

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