Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 01:23PM

sup_dude wrote: »

I'm not asking why they leave. I'm asking why they join. Or more accurately, I was saying that it would be worth finding out why they join in order to prevent it. I'm also saying that there are evidently people who want to leave and it would be beneficial to help them once they get out.

Its obvious why they join, its no great secret, they want to live in an Islamic society and ISIS is creating that. Those chicks came from a muslim household and background, its their culture. You want to stop Islamic extremism in europe, dont let any muslims in, like Japan, no problems with Islam.

Also, why are people in the thread calling ISIS "deash", its pathetic, whats next, calling abu bakr al-baghdadi "He who must not be named".

MPFGLB · 26-11-2015 01:50PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Its obvious why they join, its no great secret, they want to live in an Islamic society and ISIS is creating that. Those chicks came from a muslim household and background, its their culture. You want to stop Islamic extremism in europe, dont let any muslims in, like Japan, no problems with Islam.

Also, why are people in the thread calling ISIS "deash", its pathetic, whats next, calling abu bakr al-baghdadi "He who must not be named".

We are calling them Daesh because that is what THEY hate to be called and because it takes away from the fact that they think they are are a state and are representing Islam...

Rather than call it pathetic I think you should read this
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/why-isis-will-hate-it-if-we-start-calling-them-daesh--bkC822p_zl

listermint · 26-11-2015 02:22PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Also, why are people in the thread calling ISIS "deash", its pathetic, whats next, calling abu bakr al-baghdadi "He who must not be named".

Read up bro,

Read up.

StewartGriffin · 26-11-2015 02:23PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Also, why are people in the thread calling ISIS "deash", its pathetic, whats next, calling abu bakr al-baghdadi "He who must not be named".

Because it pisses them off no end. Why do you insist on giving them respect by acknowledging their desire to be a new Islamic State?

Calm down and read a newspaper.

It's actually very relevant to what we are discussing here. Impressionable, (slightly dumb,) kids might be less likely to want to be part of a group they know as Daesh, which is a mildly derogatory term, than one called Islamic State.

IvyTheTerrible · 26-11-2015 02:29PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Its obvious why they join, its no great secret, they want to live in an Islamic society and ISIS is creating that. Those chicks came from a muslim household and background, its their culture. You want to stop Islamic extremism in europe, dont let any muslims in, like Japan, no problems with Islam.

Also, why are people in the thread calling ISIS "deash", its pathetic, whats next, calling abu bakr al-baghdadi "He who must not be named".

Actually I'm surprised more media outlets and individuals aren't calling them Daesh. The French media as a whole have made the editorial decision to call them Daesh because it pisses them off.

Samaris · 26-11-2015 02:46PM

According to their own media (would you believe it, ISIS has their own magazine), they acknowledge quite freely and without any problems at all that some Westerners call them Daesh.

It's a bit of an urban legend that "Daesh" upsets them. These are guys that quite thoroughly believe that blowing themselves up and killing as many innocent people as possible nets them a great reward in the next life. May as well call them "Meany Poo-Poo Heads" for all they care about how "infidels" label them.

..On the other hand, if people in general feel better about calling them Daesh and denying their claimed "state" claim inherent in the name ISIS, screw it, who am I to argue?

ronan45 · 26-11-2015 02:53PM

Not being smart but is there actual proof this "Poster Girl" being beaten to death? Could it just be propaganda to put off any other would be Isis poster girls heading over? It wouldnt really be in ISIS interests to just beat that girl to death I would have thought, no matter what she did, they could have just have easily kept her chained up for the rest of her life

It would obviously damage their chances of having more of these girls heading over to them !

namloc1980 · 26-11-2015 03:07PM

The only good ISIS fighter is a dead ISIS fighter.

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 03:31PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

We are calling them Daesh because that is what THEY hate to be called and because it takes away from the fact that they think they are are a state and are representing Islam...

Rather than call it pathetic I think you should read this
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/why-isis-will-hate-it-if-we-start-calling-them-daesh--bkC822p_zl

They are a de facto Islamic state and they do represent Islam, to deny that is to hide from the problem.

Jonti · 26-11-2015 03:34PM

Hell slap it into her! Deserved all she got!

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 03:34PM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Actually I'm surprised more media outlets and individuals aren't calling them Daesh. The French media as a whole have made the editorial decision to call them Daesh because it pisses them off.

Supposedly...I'f treat those reports the same as Id treat anything reported on North Korea

MPFGLB · 26-11-2015 03:36PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

They are a de facto Islamic state and they do represent Islam, to deny that is to hide from the problem.

They are only a sate because they say so ...they have no international recognition as a state

And being Islamic does not mean you represent (all) Islam

I guess the truth is too subtle for you and your limited comprehension

MPFGLB · 26-11-2015 03:38PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Supposedly...I'f treat those reports the same as Id treat anything reported on North Korea

I guess you just want to be RIGHT and are not interested in learning anything or understanding beyond what you have already decided is the truth

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 03:46PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

They are only a sate because they say so ...they have no international recognition as a state

And being Islamic does not mean you represent (all) Islam

I guess the truth is too subtle for you and your limited comprehension

Did I say they represented "all" Islam? Ah yes, Im the one with limited comprehension. They are an Islamic state, they are self declared, and function as one, courts, army, police etc etc Just because you dont agree with them and think they are "evil" does not make them a bunch of random headers in the desert beheading people.

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 03:50PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

I guess you just want to be RIGHT and are not interested in learning anything or understanding beyond what you have already decided is the truth

I think its pathetic to get bound up in "striking a blow" by misnaming ISIS. We didnt call the red brigades something else because they "didnt represent "true" or "all" communism". You recognise and analyse the threat for what it is and dismantle it. This naming stuff is nonsense, they call themselves ISIS, they are ISIS.

MPFGLB · 26-11-2015 03:52PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Did I say they represented "all" Islam? Ah yes, Im the one with limited comprehension. They are an Islamic state, they are self declared, and function as one, courts, army, police etc etc Just because you dont agree with them and think they are "evil" does not make them a bunch of random headers in the desert beheading people.

Who said it did....go and ague with a wall...then you can always be right...

We are talking about the legitimacy of what you call yourself ...nothow many police/building,etc you have

And how that legitimacy is recognized

Any reasonable person would not call them a state just because of their say so

You know what ...life is to short ..You call them what you want but do not call me pathetic for my decisions to call them Daesh

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 03:57PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

Who said it did....go and ague with a wall...then you can always be right...

We are talking about the legitimacy of what you call yourself ...nothow many police/building,etc you have

And how that legitimacy is recognized

Any reasonable person would not call them a state just because of their say so

You know what ...life is to short ..You call them what you want but do not call me pathetic for my decisions to call them Daesh

Originally Posted by MPFGLB View Post

They are only a sate because they say so ...they have no international recognition as a state

And being Islamic does not mean you represent (all) Islam

I guess the truth is too subtle for you and your limited comprehension

ISIS are a de facto state, they are the latest in a long line of Islamic crusaders after Mohammed looking to implement an Islamic state, they have done so in a large swathe of the ME, to deny this is to forget and ignore history and pretend this is some freak occurrence whereby a bunch of random people have gotten together with no ideology or history and we dont know why.
Just because you recognise them as such does not mean you extend dipomatic relations and open trade with them. The goal still is to wipe them out.

Azalea · 26-11-2015 03:58PM

kettlehead wrote: »

Probably already got her 72 virgins when Daesh first got a hold of her.

Anyone know what's clever or witty about this?

I'd appreciate a genuinely witty "72 virgins" joke but the ones to this thread are crap.

StewartGriffin · 26-11-2015 03:59PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Did I say they represented "all" Islam? Ah yes, Im the one with limited comprehension. They are an Islamic state, they are self declared, and function as one, courts, army, police etc etc Just because you dont agree with them and think they are "evil" does not make them a bunch of random headers in the desert beheading people.

Key word here is "an." To call them Islamic State indicates that they are "THE" Islamic State. i.e. a state for all Islam.

A country might be a Christian State, but if it called itself "Christian State" would people refer to it as such?

jobbridge4life · 26-11-2015 03:59PM

Azalea wrote: »

Anyone know what's clever or witty about this?

I'd appreciate a genuinely witty "72 virgins" joke but the ones to this thread are crap.

I thought it was funny.

FURET · 26-11-2015 04:04PM

Candie wrote: »

Unless you believe that hundreds of thousands of young men joined ISIS because they just want to have a go of a bit of beheading, rape, torture, immolation and dismemberment because that's just how they are inherently. Which I don't. I believe that these groups act as cults and that the people who get sucked in have been exposed to usually prolonged pitching and propaganda and come to believe that the idealised ends will justify the means.

The idealized ends?

To quote Sam Harris:

Simply recall who we’re fighting—groups like al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and ISIS. These people kill doctors, aid workers, and journalists on purpose. They are telling us with every breath how they want the world to be. They are not saying, “Sorry guys, we just don’t have the weapons you have, and so we’re obliged to use asymmetric, seemingly barbaric tactics like burning people alive in cages, taking sex slaves, and crucifying children. However, all this savagery doesn’t reflect how we want to live at all. Sorry for shooting Malala in the head. We won’t behave like that once we build the Caliphate.”

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sam-harris-the-salon-interview

MPFGLB · 26-11-2015 04:14PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Originally Posted by MPFGLB View Post

ISIS are a de facto state, they are the latest in a long line of Islamic crusaders after Mohammed looking to implement an Islamic state, they have done so in a large swathe of the ME, to deny this is to forget and ignore history and pretend this is some freak occurrence whereby a bunch of random people have gotten together with no ideology or history and we dont know why.
Just because you recognise them as such does not mean you extend dipomatic relations and open trade with them. The goal still is to wipe them out.

Who is denying any of this by choosing to not call them
a) a state
b) the Islamic state

You are going to twist everything about this to somehow indicated a "pathetic" attempt to lessen their impact.On the contrary it is an attempt to lessen their legitimacy.
But as I said about subtly

opiniated · 26-11-2015 04:28PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

I think its pathetic to get bound up in "striking a blow" by misnaming ISIS. We didnt call the red brigades something else because they "didnt represent "true" or "all" communism". You recognise and analyse the threat for what it is and dismantle it. This naming stuff is nonsense, they call themselves ISIS, they are ISIS.

You're entitled to think whatever you want.

The rest of us are equally entitled to think that if calling those scum "Daesh" prevents even one person from identifying with them on religious grounds, it's worth it.

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 04:42PM

opiniated wrote: »

You're entitled to think whatever you want.

The rest of us are equally entitled to think that if calling those scum "Daesh" prevents even one person from identifying with them on religious grounds, it's worth it.

But thats the whole point, islamists were flocking to them before they were called ISIS, islamists have flocked to "holy wars" constantly. Pretending that somehow calling ISIS Daesh will stop some lad/chick from joining their crusade is hilarious.

If only the Byzantine empire had known that calling an invading islamic army a name the allegedly annoys them would have an effect...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Byzantine_wars

jobbridge4life · 26-11-2015 04:46PM

opiniated wrote: »

You're entitled to think whatever you want.

The rest of us are equally entitled to think that if calling those scum "Daesh" prevents even one person from identifying with them on religious grounds, it's worth it.

Why shouldn't we identify them on religious grounds? They are openly religious? They are establishing a theocracy. Why do we need to remove religion from the equation?

Sleepy · 26-11-2015 04:49PM

Why is this any more newsworthy than a case of any other IS defector being killed? Oh right, because they're women.

Would those excusing them as brainwashed have been as quick to excuse teenage prison guards in Auschwitz? Probably not.

Ash.J.Williams · 26-11-2015 04:50PM

Candie wrote: »

Teenagers generally aren't renowned for their critical thinking ability or their comprehension of the consequences of their actions, and this is what recruiters for the likes of Daesh and other cults rely on - blinkered idealism.

She paid the highest price for her actions, and I'm sure there are plenty here who'll be delighted about that, but when I hear of people being beaten to death the only thing I feel is sickened.

personally i see wrong when anybody is killed but these two girls probably led others to their deaths too.

jonon9 · 26-11-2015 04:51PM

I would like to feel sorry for this girl but I just cant the day she joined ISIS she became a terrorist herself, she knew damn well what she was getting herself into.

The_Kew_Tour · 26-11-2015 05:16PM

sup_dude wrote: »

I said I had more sympathy for her because she was leaving and that there would be less on the thread if she died during an ISIS act.

And where in that quote did I say "everyone is celebrating her death"?

No, I'm not. Not even close. Stop twisting my posts.

I'm not asking why they leave. I'm asking why they join. Or more accurately, I was saying that it would be worth finding out why they join in order to prevent it. I'm also saying that there are evidently people who want to leave and it would be beneficial to help them once they get out.

Nobody is twisting your posts. Either debate and answer the questions or move along.

You are now saying a quote which you said is now twisting your opinion. Logic gone out the window.

Annasopra · 26-11-2015 06:02PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

20 years ago before the internet there might have been a case for saying they did not know what they were getting into but now with so much information available and every teenager owning a laptop it just doesn't add up that they had no idea what ISIS was about.

Actually in some ways I dont agree with that. The internet provides us with an overload of information and it can be used very easily to spread misinformation, propaganda and lies. Its very hatd nowadays with the internet to distinguish factual information from propaganda.

Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

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