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Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

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Comments

  • #152
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    She left the west to engage in the torture and killing of people with different views to her. Repentance was a bit late , if at all ( she might have been upset with her own personal treatment ).

    This is why I was reluctant to repeat a certain part of my posts without the rest of them. I've gone over reasoning behind this in the rest of my posts. That post was in direct reply to Kew's question as he didn't want to read the others posts properly. Out of context, it seems a bit odder but if I directly reply to you, someone else will take that reply out of context until we start running around in circles of me constantly repeating myself in snippets of what I had originally said, until those determined to make it sound like I said something I didn't have actual evidence... when in actual fact, it's just a series of posts taken out of context... which brings us full circle. All of which can be avoided by reading the thread. You don't have to agree with me, but at least you can disagree with the full opinion, as opposed to just a snippet.


  • #153
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,033 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I said in every one of those posts that it would be a different story if the girl was killed whilst committing an act for ISIS and as a response from committing an act for ISIS.

    You said "fewer people would have defended her" which could mean few things.

    She had a choice. She could have stayed in Austria, hell she could have ****ed off and travelled and seen the world, or she could become a martyr for ISIS. She wanted to become a murder, a cold hearted killer happy to celebrate the death of freedom.

    She then changed her mind cause she realised she was well let's just say a little wrong about her ideal perception of ISIS.

    I spent 12 days in Damascus in 2006, I know if I had a choice between there or Austria even back then I know where I want to be, I'll tell you that.

    EVENFLOW



  • #154
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    You said "fewer people would have defended her" which could mean few things.

    And going by the rest of the posts towards me, doubtlessly you're going to apply your own meaning no matter what I say.
    She had a choice. She could have stayed in Austria, hell she could have ****ed off and travelled and seen the world, or she could become a martyr for ISIS. She wanted to become a murder, a cold hearted killer happy to celebrate the death of freedom.

    She then changed her mind cause she realised she was well let's just say a little wrong about her ideal perception of ISIS.

    I spent 12 days in Damascus in 2006, I know if I had a choice between there or Austria even back then I know where I want to be, I'll tell you that.

    Good for you, but what's done is done. You don't know her reasoning any more than I do. What we do know is that she didn't want that way of life anymore and she got brutally killed for it. Now we can celebrate this and/or not give a damn, or we can realise that not everyone in ISIS wants to be there and take appropriate steps from there. You're fully entitled to disagree with me. I was just saying you aren't entitled to twist my posts in order to disagree with me.


  • #155
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭PressRun


    This thread is appalling.


  • #156
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,033 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    sup_dude wrote: »
    And going by the rest of the posts towards me, doubtlessly you're going to apply your own meaning no matter what I say.


    Good for you, but what's done is done. You don't know her reasoning any more than I do. What we do know is that she didn't want that way of life anymore and she got brutally killed for it. Now we can celebrate this and/or not give a damn, or we can realise that not everyone in ISIS wants to be there and take appropriate steps from there. You're fully entitled to disagree with me. I was just saying you aren't entitled to twist my posts in order to disagree with me.

    You be more then welcome to elaborate if you like.

    If I was trying to twist then I take it back, but you did not answer the questions so assumptions will then be met according to previous posts.

    But I say it for 4th time, me or nobody else is celebrating. They're nothing to celebrate at all. They're serious threat to this part of the world like never before.

    She is only a ounce of the mountain of the problem we may face. I'm just relieved to see a evil person gone from earth and no innocent person was killed.

    EVENFLOW



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  • #157
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Azalea wrote: »
    This isn't bringing anything to the table - the Paris killers didn't try to leave, and weren't executed by Isis. The girl in this case didn't carry out an atrocity like that carried out in Paris. I understand why you have no sympathy for this particular girl but twisting people's words doesn't make for effective discussion.

    You have no ideas what atrocities she did or didn't commit, nor her reasons for leaving. Given that she joined an organisation that promotes extreme violence towards people it sees as infidels, that it crucifies children, beheads hostages, enslaves religious and ethnic minorities (often sex slavery) and promotes all of this with video propaganda it's reasonable to assume she went there to participate in those atrocities, and did do so.

    If she was appalled by atrocities she wouldnt have gone. Daesh don't pretend to be running a hippy happy clappy commune. They are clear about what they do, they record and transmit what they do, and she clearly joined because she liked what they do and wanted to do it too. Only a fool would think she went there expecting sunshine and roses and an ecumenical service of kumbya. Nor would somebody who watches these atrocities in HD, who feels the desire to go to join the group doing these atrocities be any way likely to feel revulsion just because these atrocities are now happening in real life rather than on the 50" plasma. She travelled to kill and torture people. She almost certainly did so.

    Why did she try leave? Probably because they started bullying her too.

    The sympathy for her, mostly self-regarding pseudo horror at the lack of concern of the death of a monster is not just moral imbecility but morally revolting in itself. If your first concern at the death of a sectarian torture lover (who travelled to kill people with different beliefs) is to throw accusations of moral turpitude at normal people who are not so concerned about her death, but rather with her victims, then spare us your moral "revulsion" at a quite normal reaction and turn your revulsion at your self.


  • #158
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    I think her background (child of Bosnian Muslims who fled their country during the Balkans war) deserves to be considered. I think it's possible for her (and other young, impressionable, maybe vulnerable guys and girls) to have been suckered into joining Isis through insidious indoctrination. Never underestimate the seductive power of manipulators who know what buttons to press.

    It's sometimes easier for people to be extremely simplistic about the above phenomenon and just decide "they're evil" and that's that, rather than confront the above. It doesn't achieve anything though, not to examine the complexities of human nature, in order to try and prevent this rashness. And that can be done without emotion, without sympathy. I would be pretty lacking in sympathy for this girl - but I can recognise it's completely possible for her to have been drawn in without thinking "Yeah, butchering - what craic!"


  • #159
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    You be more then welcome to elaborate if you like.

    If I was trying to twist then I take it back, but you did not answer the questions so assumptions will then be met according to previous posts.

    But I say it for 4th time, me or nobody else is celebrating. They're nothing to celebrate at all. They're serious threat to this part of the world like never before.

    She is only a ounce of the mountain of the problem we may face. I'm just relieved to see a evil person gone from earth and no innocent person was killed.

    I've elabourated on that too

    My previous posts did answer the questions. I had assumed that they weren't that cryptic given nobody else has been accusing me of supporting the Paris bombings.

    I never said everyone on the thread is celebrating. Some people did say that they were glad she's dead. There are also people in other sources that are celebrating, particularly on some of the comments on Facebook articles.

    She's only one ounce but unlike the others, she was trying to escape and that makes a world of difference in my book. She wasn't innocent, as I've said and again, if she was killed in a terrorist act, then there'd be far less sympathy (I say less because undoubtedly, there would be some). However, she was killed trying to run. Yet people leaving ISIS should be something we should be encouraging. ISIS want people. That's just about the only aim they have. That, and hatred spreading and fear mongering (something which they are doing a fabulous job of, and the West are falling into the trap like a dog after a bone). Why would anyone try and leave when, if they're caught they get brutally murdered and if they get away with it, people wish they were brutally murdered? Yes, you could argue that it would discourage others joining and so on so forth... or we could just show how far apart we are to this organisation and use the information that escapees can give.


  • #160
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    This thread is full of hate filled irrational morons who just sit and wait for a green light to be horrible people.

    A child made a mistake, a stupid mistake but a mistake all the same, that child then probably ended up being raped on her "wedding" night and ever since, ended up being impregnated and eventually decided it was so bad she wanted to leave. Rather than people being happy she tried to leave people are celebrating her death.

    This planet is full of hateful, horrible, disgusting people.


    Yes. Like People who defend somebody who joined an organisation that engages in all the atrocities that Isis engage in.

    Newsflash. They are all young. So were the Waffen SS.


  • #161
    moc moc a moc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    Some of the handwringing going on over this pair is pathetic. Teenage males join ISIS from all over the world every month, but we don't have faux-indignant posts on After Hours about them now, do we?
    Candie wrote: »
    I don't think gang rape jokes are necessary on top of that.

    Then phone up the president of Islam and tell him you don't approve of their idea of a martyr being assigned 72 virgins in the afterlife.


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  • #162
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    You have no ideas what atrocities she did or didn't commit, nor her reasons for leaving. Given that she joined an organisation that promotes extreme violence towards people it sees as infidels, that it crucifies children, beheads hostages, enslaves religious and ethnic minorities (often sex slavery) and promotes all of this with video propaganda it's reasonable to assume she went there to participate in those atrocities, and did do so.

    If she was appalled by atrocities she wouldnt have gone. Daesh don't pretend to be running a hippy happy clappy commune. They are clear about what they do, they record and transmit what they do, and she clearly joined because she liked what they do and wanted to do it too. Only a fool would think she went there expecting sunshine and roses and an ecumenical service of kumbya. Nor would somebody who watches these atrocities in HD, who feels the desire to go to join the group doing these atrocities be any way likely to feel revulsion just because these atrocities are now happening in real life rather than on the 50" plasma. She travelled to kill and torture people. She almost certainly did so.

    Why did she try leave? Probably because they started bullying her too.

    The sympathy for her, mostly self-regarding pseudo horror at the lack of concern of the death of a monster is not just moral imbecility but morally revolting in itself. If your first concern at the death of a sectarian torture lover (who travelled to kill people with different beliefs) is to throw accusations of moral turpitude at normal people who are not so concerned about her death, but rather with her victims, then spare us your moral "revulsion" at a quite normal reaction and turn your revulsion at your self.

    That post you quoted was in reply to a post implying that those who feel any sort of sympathy for the girl for any reason was also sympathetic to the Paris bombers... a ridiculus notion and a just reply.


  • #163
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Yes. Like People who defend somebody who joined an organisation that engages in all the atrocities that Isis engage in.

    Newsflash. They are all young. So were the Waffen SS.


    I don't think anyone is defending her joining ISIS....


  • #164
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    The whole "she was trying to run so she had a change of heart" is bollocks. She was running because of maltreatment not out of sympathy for the people she travelled to torture and kill because she knew what was happening before she went


  • #165
    Isaiah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    iDave wrote: »
    When i clicked into the article I expected to see a second/third generation girl of ME/Persian/Pakistani descent. Was very surprised to see a European girl with a surname of Kesinovic.

    Probably of Caucasus or Balkan decent. There are a few white European Muslim ethnicities in these areas.


  • #166
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    The whole "she was trying to run so she had a change of heart" is bollocks. She was running because of maltreatment not out of sympathy for the people she travelled to torture and kill because she knew what was happening before she went

    And you know this yes? You knew her well?


  • #167
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is defending her joining ISIS....

    No? Well what are you spending any sympathy at all? If a suicide bomber prematurely blows up how much sympathy is expected. If a drunken joy rider careers off the road just before he hits a school yard, do we worry about him?

    She went to join an organisation that she knew was genocidal, they turned on her. My sympathy is non existent. And all sympathy is suspect.


  • #168
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    sup_dude wrote: »
    And you know this yes? You knew her well?

    What a stupid response. You think she went to join a organisation that advertises it's killings online because she liked the uniform? She went to kill people.


  • #169
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Eugene Norman wrote:
    No? Well what are you spending any sympathy at all? If a suicide bomber prematurely blows up how much sympathy is expected. If a drunken joy rider careers off the road just before he hits a school yard, do we worry about him?


    You know, I explain this is nearly all my first few posts. Then I re-explained it for Kew (which you even quoted). I think Dav just needs to develop automated responses so it doesn't need to be continually typed out.


  • #170
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    moc moc a moc wrote: »
    Some of the handwringing going on over this pair is pathetic. Teenage males join ISIS from all over the world every month, but we don't have faux-indignant posts on After Hours about them now, do we?
    Faux means false, just saying.
    This thread isn't just about someone just joining Isis, it's about someone fleeing them and being killed by them. Not saying I have sympathy but your comparison isn't in line with what's being discussed.
    Then phone up the president of Islam and tell him you don't approve of their idea of a martyr being assigned 72 virgins in the afterlife.
    But that post wasn't about 72 virgins, it was about a 72 man gang bang - makes no sense.


  • #171
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Eugene Norman wrote:
    What a stupid response. You think she went to join a organisation that advertises it's killings online because she liked the uniform? She went to kill people.


    You have no idea why she went, and instead of making assumptions, we could have actually learned why she went and used that to help prevent more people going. It's a lot easier just to assume though I guess.


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  • #172
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    sup_dude wrote: »
    You have no idea why she went, and instead of making assumptions, we could have actually learned why she went and used that to help prevent more people going. It's a lot easier just to assume though I guess.

    I have a very strong idea of why she went. She watched videos of people being beheaded and thought "I'd like some of that". That's the most likely explanation rather than whatever reason you seem to think you don't need to proffer but should nevertheless be accepted.

    The whole "era she was a kid" is an insanely stupid response. The American army in Vietnam was 19 on average (as the song says) which means some were 18, or younger. Teenagers at any rate.

    My Lai was still an atrocity. American soldiers getting killed wasn't the same kind of tragedy as the destruction of Vietnam. The tragedy in Syria is the genocide of the enemies of Isis not a spoilt brat who participated in that genocide.


    Sympathy is never a value free judgement.


  • #173
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Eugene Norman wrote:
    I have a very strong idea of why she went. She watched videos of people being beheaded and thought "I'd like some of that". That's the most likely explanation rather than whatever reason you seem to think you don't need to proffer but should nevertheless be accepted.


    I don't have a reason to "proffer" because I don't presume to know enough about the situation to make up a reason. That's my point. I don't know, and as much as you would like to think otherwise, neither do you. However, making up a reason isn't helpful or useful and leads to nothing. What should be done is, instead of making up reasons, we should be looking for the actual reason people join ISIS and using that to prevent others from joining.


  • #174
    MPFGLB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    I think I might first preface this by saying I hate Daesh and all they stand for but I am sickened by the death of this girl in this manner

    Some people on here are saying all knowledge was at her fingertips and she and her friend knew what they were letting themselves in for but it is not as simple as that

    For one thing when they joined in late 2013 the full extent of ISIS depravity wasn't wide spread . But even if it was there is as Einstein said two things that are infinite ..The Universe and human stupidity (and he wasn't sure about the first).
    These girls may not have thought further than the adventure they would be on , away from parent rule, part of some great crusade for Muslim salvation (because that is how it is painted). Maybe they were made to feel wanted, grown up, liberated (I know!!). Then there is the power of the attraction of women to fighters/killers. Aren't there lots o women who form relationships and marry men on death row . Femme fatals are a real phenomenon

    Some people express surprise that a woman would leave a western society where she has freedoms to join a country where she is a second class citizen. But some don't value freedom until it is taken away while others are happy to be subjugated if they feel part of a bigger purpose and are of value...You must remember that most of the rhetoric I see on line (and this is among Irish/UK) blame the west for every problem in the ME. Irish & British liberals and activists blame us so why wouldn't some Muslims who feel lacking in identity , torn between cultures and wanting some sort of certainty and cause blame us...Then its just a step to being under the influence of the extremist preachers, wanting to please and be accepted by your new brothers and sisters

    None of this is an excuse. It is by way of explanation. When I was 16 I would have never ran off and joined a cult because I had foresight to understand the consequences plus I was too afraid of my mother and father. But I think instead of these youngsters having too strong a faith they really have none because when you believe in nothing then you fall for anything

    I think the fate of the American woman hostage was even more tragic

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34205911


  • #175
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,033 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I've elabourated on that too

    My previous posts did answer the questions. I had assumed that they weren't that cryptic given nobody else has been accusing me of supporting the Paris bombings.

    I never said everyone on the thread is celebrating. Some people did say that they were glad she's dead. There are also people in other sources that are celebrating, particularly on some of the comments on Facebook articles.

    She's only one ounce but unlike the others, she was trying to escape and that makes a world of difference in my book. She wasn't innocent, as I've said and again, if she was killed in a terrorist act, then there'd be far less sympathy (I say less because undoubtedly, there would be some). However, she was killed trying to run. Yet people leaving ISIS should be something we should be encouraging. ISIS want people. That's just about the only aim they have. That, and hatred spreading and fear mongering (something which they are doing a fabulous job of, and the West are falling into the trap like a dog after a bone). Why would anyone try and leave when, if they're caught they get brutally murdered and if they get away with it, people wish they were brutally murdered? Yes, you could argue that it would discourage others joining and so on so forth... or we could just show how far apart we are to this organisation and use the information that escapees can give.

    Again you never answered the questions. You sympathised with the Girl in first 2 posts and again said it was "encouraging" that she was leaving in your third.

    And you say you never said people are celebrating, here quote from few posts back

    "Now we can celebrate this and/or not give a damn, or we can realise that not everyone in ISIS wants to be there and take appropriate steps from there."

    You basically say if we don't approve of your way of thinking we are celebrating or not caring of this girl.

    Well latter is true I reckon, but not former.

    It's quite clear here.

    Why would anyone leave you ask? It could be for million reasons, sure we hate to make assumptions right?

    EVENFLOW



  • #176
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,080 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Encouraging child soldiers is wrong no matter who does it, the congolese, ISIS, the U.S. and U.K. military recruiters....

    Children are really vulnerable to being used and controlled, whether that's by inner city gangs, or terrorists

    Watch the Louis Theroux documentaries on the Nazis or the Westborough Baptist Church. In those shows, there are children, teenagers who have been told their entire lives what to believe and have had their humanity stripped from them through constant re-enforcement.

    Most of these kids will escape the grip of their parents extremism as they become independent adults, but if they are forced to do violent or extremist acts as children they may never be free of the consequences

    Teenagers often have just the right mix of energy, arrogance and idealism to fall victim to people who will exploit them.

    We can't blame the children. We must hold the parents and the adults who influence them responsible for indoctrinating them into an ideology that leads them to believe so strongly in the cause of Islamic hegemony that they'll run away to join ISIS.

    Ban billionaires



  • #177
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    i certainly won't have sympathy for anyone stupid and blind enough to join any terrorist organisation.
    way too much 'sympathy' available on the net nowadays.
    how many will remember and discuss her in 24/48 hours. 'sympathy' today means nothing. news moves on and so do the handwringers.


  • #178
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Kylee Moldy Shoe wrote: »



    I didn't realise you knew her at 14/15, tell us more about what you know for a fact she was definitely thinking. What was her favourite colour, did she like ice-cream?

    I'd wager that she was, in fact, a complete idiot. It's a sad story from start to finish, the end was pretty much inevitable though.

    A complete idiot who joins ISIS is perfectly capable of killing people.

    Her possibly being a complete idiot doesn't take away from the fact that she joined a terrorist organisation. It doesn't take away from the fact that she supported their killing etc. etc. Who knows, maybe she even killed people herself.

    Idiot or no idiot, I have no sympathy for her.


  • #179
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    Sand wrote: »
    Because she sought out and agreed with the ISIS view of the world. This was something she chose to do in the same way people choose to join various hate groups, or choose to shoot up cinemas or schools. What makes people like that think their hateful views are okay or something to be desired? This had to do with her and her own values and her own choices. Like others she wilfully decided to reject the society and its values, and her particular poison was ISIS, where it could have been racism, bigotry, fringe political with militant tendencies or a more ill-defined hate and bitterness against others. Look at the members of various Irish terrorist groups. The flavour might change, but the underlying rejection of society and all its compromises and values remains the same.

    ISIS doctrines have to be sought out. They repel most people, even other Islamic jihadist groups. They interested her and she began the journey to her own fate. This was not something that was done *to* her. It was something she did to herself.

    Daesh doctrines repel anyone with half an ounce of humanity or empathy of any kind. (I refuse to give the scum the dignity of calling them by their chosen name) Daesh are unadulterated evil.
    Someone said she joined Daesh in 2013. So she was 14 or 15 when she joined.

    What are the odds that she just "found" Daesh at that age?
    Maybe she did, but I strongly suspect she had help.
    If that is the case, it needs to be recognised that there are people acting as funnels to Daesh - and they need to be rooted out.

    Azalea wrote: »
    I think her background (child of Bosnian Muslims who fled their country during the Balkans war) deserves to be considered. I think it's possible for her (and other young, impressionable, maybe vulnerable guys and girls) to have been suckered into joining Isis through insidious indoctrination. Never underestimate the seductive power of manipulators who know what buttons to press.

    It's sometimes easier for people to be extremely simplistic about the above phenomenon and just decide "they're evil" and that's that, rather than confront the above. It doesn't achieve anything though, not to examine the complexities of human nature, in order to try and prevent this rashness. And that can be done without emotion, without sympathy. I would be pretty lacking in sympathy for this girl - but I can recognise it's completely possible for her to have been drawn in without thinking "Yeah, butchering - what craic!"

    This x 1000.

    I can accept that you don't have sympathy for her.
    I find it very hard not to have sympathy for someone being beaten to death, while in no way condoning the evil that they themselves have been part of.

    But the subject needs to be discussed, rationally, without people automatically jumping to the conclusion that being horrified at someone being beaten to death means A: You sympathise with Daesh, or b: You think they shouldn't have to face consequences for their actions.
    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    No? Well what are you spending any sympathy at all? If a suicide bomber prematurely blows up how much sympathy is expected. If a drunken joy rider careers off the road just before he hits a school yard, do we worry about him?

    She went to join an organisation that she knew was genocidal, they turned on her. My sympathy is non existent. And all sympathy is suspect.

    I would regard a drunken joyrider being killed as a tragic waste of life.
    i would have huge sympathy for his parents, family, friends, etc.

    That doesn't mean i think it's ok to go on a drunken joyride, anymore than I think it's ok to join Daesh.

    People differ, and life is not black and white. It would be much easier if it were.
    MPFGLB wrote: »
    I think I might first preface this by saying I hate Daesh and all they stand for but I am sickened by the death of this girl in this manner

    Some people on here are saying all knowledge was at her fingertips and she and her friend knew what they were letting themselves in for but it is not as simple as that

    For one thing when they joined in late 2013 the full extent of ISIS depravity wasn't wide spread . But even if it was there is as Einstein said two things that are infinite ..The Universe and human stupidity (and he wasn't sure about the first).
    These girls may not have thought further than the adventure they would be on , away from parent rule, part of some great crusade for Muslim salvation (because that is how it is painted). Maybe they were made to feel wanted, grown up, liberated (I know!!). Then there is the power of the attraction of women to fighters/killers. Aren't there lots o women who form relationships and marry men on death row . Femme fatals are a real phenomenon

    Some people express surprise that a woman would leave a western society where she has freedoms to join a country where she is a second class citizen. But some don't value freedom until it is taken away while others are happy to be subjugated if they feel part of a bigger purpose and are of value...You must remember that most of the rhetoric I see on line (and this is among Irish/UK) blame the west for every problem in the ME. Irish & British liberals and activists blame us so why wouldn't some Muslims who feel lacking in identity , torn between cultures and wanting some sort of certainty and cause blame us...Then its just a step to being under the influence of the extremist preachers, wanting to please and be accepted by your new brothers and sisters

    None of this is an excuse. It is by way of explanation. When I was 16 I would have never ran off and joined a cult because I had foresight to understand the consequences plus I was too afraid of my mother and father. But I think instead of these youngsters having too strong a faith they really have none because when you believe in nothing then you fall for anything

    I think the faith of the American woman hostage was even more tragic

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34205911
    Akrasia wrote: »
    Encouraging child soldiers is wrong no matter who does it, the congolese, ISIS, the U.S. and U.K. military recruiters....

    Children are really vulnerable to being used and controlled, whether that's by inner city gangs, or terrorists

    Watch the Louis Theroux documentaries on the Nazis or the Westborough Baptist Church. In those shows, there are children, teenagers who have been told their entire lives what to believe and have had their humanity stripped from them through constant re-enforcement.

    Most of these kids will escape the grip of their parents extremism as they become independent adults, but if they are forced to do violent or extremist acts as children they may never be free of the consequences

    Teenagers often have just the right mix of energy, arrogance and idealism to fall victim to people who will exploit them.

    We can't blame the children. We must hold the parents and the adults who influence them responsible for indoctrinating them into an ideology that leads them to believe so strongly in the cause of Islamic hegemony that they'll run away to join ISIS.


  • #180
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Such a waste, but what Fúcking idiot to leave and join them.
    Cant say I am overly sorry for her.


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  • #181
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    The_Kew_Tour wrote:
    Again you never answered the questions. You sympathised with the Girl in first 2 posts and again said it was "encouraging" that she was leaving in your third.

    I said I had more sympathy for her because she was leaving and that there would be less on the thread if she died during an ISIS act.
    The_Kew_Tour wrote:
    And you say you never said people are celebrating, here quote from few posts back
    "Now we can celebrate this and/or not give a damn, or we can realise that not everyone in ISIS wants to be there and take appropriate steps from there."
    And where in that quote did I say "everyone is celebrating her death"?
    The_Kew_Tour wrote:
    You basically say if we don't approve of your way of thinking we are celebrating or not caring of this girl.

    No, I'm not. Not even close. Stop twisting my posts.

    The_Kew_Tour wrote:
    Why would anyone leave you ask? It could be for million reasons, sure we hate to make assumptions right?

    I'm not asking why they leave. I'm asking why they join. Or more accurately, I was saying that it would be worth finding out why they join in order to prevent it. I'm also saying that there are evidently people who want to leave and it would be beneficial to help them once they get out.


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