Eugene Norman wrote: » She left the west to engage in the torture and killing of people with different views to her. Repentance was a bit late , if at all ( she might have been upset with her own personal treatment ).
sup_dude wrote: » I said in every one of those posts that it would be a different story if the girl was killed whilst committing an act for ISIS and as a response from committing an act for ISIS.
The_Kew_Tour wrote: » You said "fewer people would have defended her" which could mean few things.
She had a choice. She could have stayed in Austria, hell she could have ****ed off and travelled and seen the world, or she could become a martyr for ISIS. She wanted to become a murder, a cold hearted killer happy to celebrate the death of freedom. She then changed her mind cause she realised she was well let's just say a little wrong about her ideal perception of ISIS. I spent 12 days in Damascus in 2006, I know if I had a choice between there or Austria even back then I know where I want to be, I'll tell you that.
sup_dude wrote: » And going by the rest of the posts towards me, doubtlessly you're going to apply your own meaning no matter what I say. Good for you, but what's done is done. You don't know her reasoning any more than I do. What we do know is that she didn't want that way of life anymore and she got brutally killed for it. Now we can celebrate this and/or not give a damn, or we can realise that not everyone in ISIS wants to be there and take appropriate steps from there. You're fully entitled to disagree with me. I was just saying you aren't entitled to twist my posts in order to disagree with me.
Azalea wrote: » This isn't bringing anything to the table - the Paris killers didn't try to leave, and weren't executed by Isis. The girl in this case didn't carry out an atrocity like that carried out in Paris. I understand why you have no sympathy for this particular girl but twisting people's words doesn't make for effective discussion.
The_Kew_Tour wrote: » You be more then welcome to elaborate if you like. If I was trying to twist then I take it back, but you did not answer the questions so assumptions will then be met according to previous posts. But I say it for 4th time, me or nobody else is celebrating. They're nothing to celebrate at all. They're serious threat to this part of the world like never before. She is only a ounce of the mountain of the problem we may face. I'm just relieved to see a evil person gone from earth and no innocent person was killed.
Subcomandante Marcos wrote: » This thread is full of hate filled irrational morons who just sit and wait for a green light to be horrible people. A child made a mistake, a stupid mistake but a mistake all the same, that child then probably ended up being raped on her "wedding" night and ever since, ended up being impregnated and eventually decided it was so bad she wanted to leave. Rather than people being happy she tried to leave people are celebrating her death. This planet is full of hateful, horrible, disgusting people.
Candie wrote: » I don't think gang rape jokes are necessary on top of that.
Eugene Norman wrote: » You have no ideas what atrocities she did or didn't commit, nor her reasons for leaving. Given that she joined an organisation that promotes extreme violence towards people it sees as infidels, that it crucifies children, beheads hostages, enslaves religious and ethnic minorities (often sex slavery) and promotes all of this with video propaganda it's reasonable to assume she went there to participate in those atrocities, and did do so. If she was appalled by atrocities she wouldnt have gone. Daesh don't pretend to be running a hippy happy clappy commune. They are clear about what they do, they record and transmit what they do, and she clearly joined because she liked what they do and wanted to do it too. Only a fool would think she went there expecting sunshine and roses and an ecumenical service of kumbya. Nor would somebody who watches these atrocities in HD, who feels the desire to go to join the group doing these atrocities be any way likely to feel revulsion just because these atrocities are now happening in real life rather than on the 50" plasma. She travelled to kill and torture people. She almost certainly did so. Why did she try leave? Probably because they started bullying her too. The sympathy for her, mostly self-regarding pseudo horror at the lack of concern of the death of a monster is not just moral imbecility but morally revolting in itself. If your first concern at the death of a sectarian torture lover (who travelled to kill people with different beliefs) is to throw accusations of moral turpitude at normal people who are not so concerned about her death, but rather with her victims, then spare us your moral "revulsion" at a quite normal reaction and turn your revulsion at your self.
Eugene Norman wrote: » Yes. Like People who defend somebody who joined an organisation that engages in all the atrocities that Isis engage in. Newsflash. They are all young. So were the Waffen SS.
iDave wrote: » When i clicked into the article I expected to see a second/third generation girl of ME/Persian/Pakistani descent. Was very surprised to see a European girl with a surname of Kesinovic.
Eugene Norman wrote: » The whole "she was trying to run so she had a change of heart" is bollocks. She was running because of maltreatment not out of sympathy for the people she travelled to torture and kill because she knew what was happening before she went
sup_dude wrote: » I don't think anyone is defending her joining ISIS....
sup_dude wrote: » And you know this yes? You knew her well?
Eugene Norman wrote: No? Well what are you spending any sympathy at all? If a suicide bomber prematurely blows up how much sympathy is expected. If a drunken joy rider careers off the road just before he hits a school yard, do we worry about him?
moc moc a moc wrote: » Some of the handwringing going on over this pair is pathetic. Teenage males join ISIS from all over the world every month, but we don't have faux-indignant posts on After Hours about them now, do we?
Then phone up the president of Islam and tell him you don't approve of their idea of a martyr being assigned 72 virgins in the afterlife.
Eugene Norman wrote: What a stupid response. You think she went to join a organisation that advertises it's killings online because she liked the uniform? She went to kill people.
sup_dude wrote: » You have no idea why she went, and instead of making assumptions, we could have actually learned why she went and used that to help prevent more people going. It's a lot easier just to assume though I guess.
Eugene Norman wrote: I have a very strong idea of why she went. She watched videos of people being beheaded and thought "I'd like some of that". That's the most likely explanation rather than whatever reason you seem to think you don't need to proffer but should nevertheless be accepted.
sup_dude wrote: » I've elabourated on that too My previous posts did answer the questions. I had assumed that they weren't that cryptic given nobody else has been accusing me of supporting the Paris bombings. I never said everyone on the thread is celebrating. Some people did say that they were glad she's dead. There are also people in other sources that are celebrating, particularly on some of the comments on Facebook articles. She's only one ounce but unlike the others, she was trying to escape and that makes a world of difference in my book. She wasn't innocent, as I've said and again, if she was killed in a terrorist act, then there'd be far less sympathy (I say less because undoubtedly, there would be some). However, she was killed trying to run. Yet people leaving ISIS should be something we should be encouraging. ISIS want people. That's just about the only aim they have. That, and hatred spreading and fear mongering (something which they are doing a fabulous job of, and the West are falling into the trap like a dog after a bone). Why would anyone try and leave when, if they're caught they get brutally murdered and if they get away with it, people wish they were brutally murdered? Yes, you could argue that it would discourage others joining and so on so forth... or we could just show how far apart we are to this organisation and use the information that escapees can give.
Kylee Moldy Shoe wrote: » I didn't realise you knew her at 14/15, tell us more about what you know for a fact she was definitely thinking. What was her favourite colour, did she like ice-cream? I'd wager that she was, in fact, a complete idiot. It's a sad story from start to finish, the end was pretty much inevitable though.
Sand wrote: » Because she sought out and agreed with the ISIS view of the world. This was something she chose to do in the same way people choose to join various hate groups, or choose to shoot up cinemas or schools. What makes people like that think their hateful views are okay or something to be desired? This had to do with her and her own values and her own choices. Like others she wilfully decided to reject the society and its values, and her particular poison was ISIS, where it could have been racism, bigotry, fringe political with militant tendencies or a more ill-defined hate and bitterness against others. Look at the members of various Irish terrorist groups. The flavour might change, but the underlying rejection of society and all its compromises and values remains the same.ISIS doctrines have to be sought out. They repel most people, even other Islamic jihadist groups. They interested her and she began the journey to her own fate. This was not something that was done *to* her. It was something she did to herself.
Azalea wrote: » I think her background (child of Bosnian Muslims who fled their country during the Balkans war) deserves to be considered. I think it's possible for her (and other young, impressionable, maybe vulnerable guys and girls) to have been suckered into joining Isis through insidious indoctrination. Never underestimate the seductive power of manipulators who know what buttons to press. It's sometimes easier for people to be extremely simplistic about the above phenomenon and just decide "they're evil" and that's that, rather than confront the above. It doesn't achieve anything though, not to examine the complexities of human nature, in order to try and prevent this rashness. And that can be done without emotion, without sympathy. I would be pretty lacking in sympathy for this girl - but I can recognise it's completely possible for her to have been drawn in without thinking "Yeah, butchering - what craic!"
Eugene Norman wrote: » No? Well what are you spending any sympathy at all? If a suicide bomber prematurely blows up how much sympathy is expected. If a drunken joy rider careers off the road just before he hits a school yard, do we worry about him? She went to join an organisation that she knew was genocidal, they turned on her. My sympathy is non existent. And all sympathy is suspect.
MPFGLB wrote: » I think I might first preface this by saying I hate Daesh and all they stand for but I am sickened by the death of this girl in this manner Some people on here are saying all knowledge was at her fingertips and she and her friend knew what they were letting themselves in for but it is not as simple as that For one thing when they joined in late 2013 the full extent of ISIS depravity wasn't wide spread . But even if it was there is as Einstein said two things that are infinite ..The Universe and human stupidity (and he wasn't sure about the first). These girls may not have thought further than the adventure they would be on , away from parent rule, part of some great crusade for Muslim salvation (because that is how it is painted). Maybe they were made to feel wanted, grown up, liberated (I know!!). Then there is the power of the attraction of women to fighters/killers. Aren't there lots o women who form relationships and marry men on death row . Femme fatals are a real phenomenon Some people express surprise that a woman would leave a western society where she has freedoms to join a country where she is a second class citizen. But some don't value freedom until it is taken away while others are happy to be subjugated if they feel part of a bigger purpose and are of value...You must remember that most of the rhetoric I see on line (and this is among Irish/UK) blame the west for every problem in the ME. Irish & British liberals and activists blame us so why wouldn't some Muslims who feel lacking in identity , torn between cultures and wanting some sort of certainty and cause blame us...Then its just a step to being under the influence of the extremist preachers, wanting to please and be accepted by your new brothers and sisters None of this is an excuse. It is by way of explanation. When I was 16 I would have never ran off and joined a cult because I had foresight to understand the consequences plus I was too afraid of my mother and father. But I think instead of these youngsters having too strong a faith they really have none because when you believe in nothing then you fall for anything I think the faith of the American woman hostage was even more tragichttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34205911
Akrasia wrote: » Encouraging child soldiers is wrong no matter who does it, the congolese, ISIS, the U.S. and U.K. military recruiters.... Children are really vulnerable to being used and controlled, whether that's by inner city gangs, or terrorists Watch the Louis Theroux documentaries on the Nazis or the Westborough Baptist Church. In those shows, there are children, teenagers who have been told their entire lives what to believe and have had their humanity stripped from them through constant re-enforcement. Most of these kids will escape the grip of their parents extremism as they become independent adults, but if they are forced to do violent or extremist acts as children they may never be free of the consequences Teenagers often have just the right mix of energy, arrogance and idealism to fall victim to people who will exploit them. We can't blame the children. We must hold the parents and the adults who influence them responsible for indoctrinating them into an ideology that leads them to believe so strongly in the cause of Islamic hegemony that they'll run away to join ISIS.
The_Kew_Tour wrote: Again you never answered the questions. You sympathised with the Girl in first 2 posts and again said it was "encouraging" that she was leaving in your third.
The_Kew_Tour wrote: And you say you never said people are celebrating, here quote from few posts back "Now we can celebrate this and/or not give a damn, or we can realise that not everyone in ISIS wants to be there and take appropriate steps from there."
The_Kew_Tour wrote: You basically say if we don't approve of your way of thinking we are celebrating or not caring of this girl.
The_Kew_Tour wrote: Why would anyone leave you ask? It could be for million reasons, sure we hate to make assumptions right?
