Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

Yakkyda · 25-11-2015 09:19PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

What do you mean, that Ireland has some special obligation to refugees and immigrants because Irish people left? Utter bull****. We have an obligation to ourselves and our fellow countrymen, no one else, not the EU and certainly not the third world.
The only people we "need" in Ireland are people who advance Irish interests .

You brought it into the debate. We should have a humanitarian approach. Not everyone fleeing that area is a terrorist. The vast majority aren't. And yes, as members of the European union, we do have some obligations . quite a few actually. I'm all for the advancement of Irish people, but without eu membership, we'd be a he'll of a long way from where we are now.

I'll bet me left ball your a die hard sinn fein supporter.

Yakkyda · 25-11-2015 09:23PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And this has exactly what to do with Turkey shooting down a Russian Warplane ?

Nothing, it was mentioned, I replied, fcukin nonsense for the most part.

Dyr · 25-11-2015 11:03PM

robindch wrote: »

Fun article by Anne Applebaum on Putin resurrecting the Soviet Union while everybody else looks away:

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/russia-great-forgetting/

Care to enlighten the group as to who the author is? And who shes married to?

Or how spending two months in leningrad in the 80s made her an expert at spotting undercover Spetznas troops in 2014

Impressive going for a women who thinks the NKVD were special forces.

She probably missed the SS insignia that the Ukranian freedom fighters were sporting and all

JPNelsforearm · 25-11-2015 11:11PM

Yakkyda wrote: »

You brought it into the debate. We should have a humanitarian approach. Not everyone fleeing that area is a terrorist. The vast majority aren't. And yes, as members of the European union, we do have some obligations . quite a few actually. I'm all for the advancement of Irish people, but without eu membership, we'd be a he'll of a long way from where we are now.

I'll bet me left ball your a die hard sinn fein supporter.

LOL, I spoil my ballot for local elections, Sinn Fein would be worse then any of the neo liberal clowns we have running the country, and thats saying something, a bunch of fake nationalists with no policies beyond what'll put them ahead in the polls. If a party had someone of the calibre of a Trump or a Putin I'd vote, until then, I'll spoil my vote.

Putin · 25-11-2015 11:38PM

Bomb ISIS and get shot down by the corrupt & chicken s**t Turks. Seems like a logical result, considering the Turks have been defacto allies of ISIS and other extreme Jihadi groups for several years now. High time NATO cop on to the brutal shower of corrupt gangsters the Turkish government is. An strengthened alliance to fight ISIS is the last thing they want, but for the good of us all, I hope their obvious attempt yesterday to scupper this will not succeed.

KomradeBishop · 25-11-2015 11:43PM

robindch wrote: »

Fun article by Anne Applebaum on Putin resurrecting the Soviet Union while everybody else looks away:

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/russia-great-forgetting/

She's pretty much a NeoCon though - just look at how deeply political all her close connections are, even having been involved with the American Enterprise Institute think tank - she would say things like that really, not a reliable source.

o1s1n · 25-11-2015 11:47PM

Putin wrote: »

Bomb ISIS and get shot down by the corrupt & chicken s**t Turks. Seems like a logical result, considering the Turks have been defacto allies of ISIS and other extreme Jihadi groups for several years now. High time NATO cop on to the brutal shower of corrupt gangsters the Turkish government is. An strengthened alliance to fight ISIS is the last thing they want, but for the good of us all, I hope their obvious attempt yesterday to scupper this will not succeed.

Hey Putin, although I agree with much of your sentiment, can you stop sending war planes into other's airspace?

Us Irish don't particularly enjoy nuclear armed Bears flying in our airspace either.

K thnx.

Jelle1880 · 25-11-2015 11:48PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The incursion into turkish airspace was very short and could easily have been down to a slight navigational error, it seems like the turks were waiting for any opportunity to have a go and it should be noted that the turkish plane did incur into Syrian airspace in the pilots eagerness to fire on the russian plane.

The Turks lost a Phantom back into 2012 during an incursion into Syrian airspace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2012_interception_of_Turkish_aircraft

That's the first time anyone's mentioned that...

dubscottie · 26-11-2015 12:01AM

Lets not forget that Russia likes to shoot stuff down as well..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

But I forgot Russia is fighting ISIS so thinks it can do what it wants and get away with it.

BoJack Horseman · 26-11-2015 12:08AM

dubscottie wrote: »

But I forgot Russia is fighting ISIS

well.... sometimes.

P.Walnuts · 26-11-2015 12:17AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18584872

Interesting article from 2012

Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June and described Syria as a "clear and present threat".
"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said. The Turkish jet was on a training flight, testing Turkey's radars in the eastern Mediterranean, he said.

Gatling · 26-11-2015 12:20AM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18584872

Interesting article from 2012

He was talking about his neighbours in 2012 the world has changed in the last near 5 years ,

He certainly wasn't taking about Russian strike aircraft entering Turkey despite a month of warnings not to do it

P.Walnuts · 26-11-2015 12:23AM

Gatling wrote: »

He was talking about his neighbours in 2012 the world has changed in the last near 5 years ,

He certainly wasn't taking about Russian strike aircraft entering Turkey despite a month of warnings not to do it

So a 17 second airspace violation justifies blowing an aircraft out of the sky? Will just have to disagree on that one...

Gatling · 26-11-2015 12:26AM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

So a 17 second airspace violation justifies blowing an aircraft out of the sky? Will just have to disagree on that one...

They were repeatedly warned for the last month and wasn't the first time they tried to enter Turkish airspace ,

17 seconds or 17 minutes they were warned and they ignored the warnings

dubscottie · 26-11-2015 12:31AM

From what I have read,

The Russian planes were approaching Turkish airspace.

They were contacted on open channels, in English, and told to turn round.

The Russian plane failed to do so and passed over Turkish airspace.

It then turned and headed back the way it came, again over Turkish airspace.

It was again told to turn back.

It failed to do so and was shot down.

The radio comms were picked up in several places as it was broadcast on open channels.

Note that the Russian plane was warned to turn BEFORE it entered Turkish airspace (twice).

The US has released transcripts and it was picked up in other countries also so its only a mater of time till the truth comes out.

Jelle1880 · 26-11-2015 12:34AM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

So a 17 second airspace violation justifies blowing an aircraft out of the sky? Will just have to disagree on that one...

Maybe not, but that's not all that happened, is it ?

It's a bit like poking someone who has told you that if you do it again you get punched in the face, and then being surprised when he follows up with his threat.
Is it extreme ? Absolutely. But if Turkey threatened that this might happen it shouldn't come as a surprise.

Superhorse · 26-11-2015 12:40AM

dubscottie wrote: »

From what I have read,

The Russian planes were approaching Turkish airspace.

They were contacted on open channels, in English, and told to turn round.

The Russian plane failed to do so and passed over Turkish airspace.

It then turned and headed back the way it came, again over Turkish airspace.

It was again told to turn back.

It failed to do so and was shot down.

The radio comms were picked up in several places as it was broadcast on open channels.

Note that the Russian plane was warned to turn BEFORE it entered Turkish airspace (twice).

The US has released transcripts and it was picked up in other countries also so its only a mater of time till the truth comes out.

Well if the US/Turkey said so then it must be true because they'd never fabricate evidence.

Gatling · 26-11-2015 12:49AM

Superhorse wrote: »

Well if the US/Turkey said so then it must be true because they'd never fabricate evidence.

Read up on what russia claimed happened to flight MH17 over Ukraine

BlaasForRafa · 26-11-2015 12:49AM

o1s1n wrote: »

Hey Putin, although I agree with much of your sentiment, can you stop sending war planes into other's airspace?

Us Irish don't particularly enjoy nuclear armed Bears flying in our airspace either.

K thnx.

No Bears flew in Irish airspace, they flew in international airspace at all times. Also they were not armed (except for the twin 23mm guns in the rear turret) let alone nuclear-armed.

pablo128 · 26-11-2015 12:54AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

No Bears flew in Irish airspace, they flew in international airspace at all times. Also they were not armed (except for the twin 23mm guns in the rear turret) let alone nuclear-armed.

They flew across flight paths with their transponder turned off.

Lol at 'they were not armed....... except for the guns on board'.

dubscottie · 26-11-2015 12:54AM

Superhorse wrote: »

Well if the US/Turkey said so then it must be true because they'd never fabricate evidence.

Russia makes stuff up all the time.. And use trolls to promote it.

I suppose this answers the question.. US aircraft v Russian..

If Russia cant see a F-16 coming what chance do they have against a F-35??

Gatling · 26-11-2015 12:55AM

pablo128 wrote: »

They flew across flight paths with their transponder turned off.

Lol at 'they were not armed....... except for the guns on board'.

Wonder if anyone actually inspected these bombers to see if they had a live payload

smurgen · 26-11-2015 12:56AM

pablo128 wrote: »

They flew across flight paths with their transponder turned off.

Lol at 'they were not armed....... except for the guns on board'.

They're built into the aircraft.was the comment so funny that you lol'd?you must find life very entertaining

smurgen · 26-11-2015 12:59AM

dubscottie wrote: »

Russia makes stuff up all the time.. And use trolls to promote it.

I suppose this answers the question.. US aircraft v Russian..

If Russia cant see a F-16 coming what chance do they have against a F-35??

They probably didn't anticipate that they'd be fired at.

SafeSurfer · 26-11-2015 01:05AM

dubscottie wrote: »

Russia makes stuff up all the time.. And use trolls to promote it.

I suppose this answers the question.. US aircraft v Russian..

If Russia cant see a F-16 coming what chance do they have against a F-35??

I think it's safe to assume the use of online trolls isn't an exclusively Russian phenomenon.

dubscottie · 26-11-2015 01:05AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

No Bears flew in Irish airspace, they flew in international airspace at all times. Also they were not armed (except for the twin 23mm guns in the rear turret) let alone nuclear-armed.

Eh, The RAF intercepted them. A nuclear armed aircraft carries "equipment" that is visible.

They were armed with nuclear armed or dummy nuclear weapons.

But sure! Its old Vlad.. Sure he is a sound lad that's not out to harm anyone!

dubscottie · 26-11-2015 01:06AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think it's safe to assume the use of online trolls isn't an exclusively Russian phenomenon.

How am I trolling? Just stating fact. And not state sponsored ones.

BlaasForRafa · 26-11-2015 01:08AM

pablo128 wrote: »

They flew across flight paths with their transponder turned off.

Turning off transponders is common for military aircraft, the Bears were not required to have transponders turned on and they could clearly be seen by air traffic radar, the Bear is certainly not a stealth aircraft.

American reconnaissance routinely approach Russian airspace and are chased off, it's routine for both sides and people usually don't get their knickers in a twist except for Irish ministers it seems.

pablo128 wrote: »

Lol at 'they were not armed....... except for the guns on board'.

The Bear has two 23mm guns in the rear turret of the plane. These are defensive weapons, not bombs, missiles, torpedoes or any offensive weapons.

dubscottie · 26-11-2015 01:12AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Turning off transponders is common for military aircraft, the Bears were not required to have transponders turned on and they could clearly be seen by air traffic radar, the Bear is certainly not a stealth aircraft.

They must have transponders on while flying in civil air lanes.

Civilian ATC cannot track an aircraft with its transponder off. Only the military can.

But military aircraft contact ATC if they are friendly.

Russian aircraft don't.

Look at the flight radar thread for an aircraft having to make a change of course while a "harmless" Russian plane sailed through the main corridor from the EU to North America..

BlaasForRafa · 26-11-2015 01:15AM

dubscottie wrote: »

Eh, The RAF intercepted them. A nuclear armed aircraft carries "equipment" that is visible.

They were armed with nuclear armed or dummy nuclear weapons.

No they were not. I'm sorry but you just don't know what you're talking about.

Gatling wrote: »

Wonder if anyone actually inspected these bombers to see if they had a live payload

It was the Tu-142 maritime reconnaissance version of the Bear that was intercepted off the Irish coast not one that flies with offensive weapons.

Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

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