Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

FortySeven · 25-11-2015 11:07PM

jeremymurphy wrote: »

There are a lot of horrible people posting here.

I know, how could anyone feel sympathy for her? Shockingly bad form.

beks101 · 25-11-2015 11:08PM

I think the story of her recruitment into IS and the sad, sorry fate she and her mate suffered for their own decision-making should be incorporated into educational programmes for secondary school students all around the western world.

Here's what happens when you think travelling into the most volatile country in the world for ****s and giggles and marry some bad-ass Jihadi gangster and brandishing super sexy AK47s all over your fb page is a good idea. Sh1t gets real and when you've had enough they slaughter you like an animal. Because why wouldn't they. That's what IS do.

Try as I might, I can't think of a single, solitary reason why joining a Jihadi death squad would hold any appeal to a teenage girl. Even a naive 15 year old who hates the world and isn't yet equipped with mature rational decision-making processes. It's just beyond my scope of understanding.

sonny.knowles · 25-11-2015 11:08PM

sup_dude wrote: »

You don't know that...

My point is that it's very clear that ISIS is making massive efforts to recruit members. In fact, that's basically their entire aim. Why would anyone be encouraged to leave it if they're going to be killed or condemned for doing so anyway?

Of course, it would be different if she was killed committing the act you speak of, or as a consequence of them. She wasn't though. She was killed running from them. To me, that makes a huge amount of difference. It doesn't excuse what she has done, but it does shed some new light on the situation.

I don't know it, but there is absolutely no justification for risking or
experimenting with other peoples lives by letting these people back into Europe.

Hopefully the brutal treatment will discourage other people joining. As I said earlier the people who have already joined are already lost and should be written off. Decisions have consequences regardless of her being 17 or whatever age.

The_Kew_Tour · 25-11-2015 11:09PM

whatdoyouknow wrote: »

It's kind of strange that people are delighted these girls are dead. Young people join armies all the time, they make stupid decisions. Sure many Irish people joined the British army over the years, doesn't mean we should be delighted when they die.

I'm no lover of the British Empire and that's coming from person with plenty of English blood, but bit of difference between trying kill bad people in a conflict and going to shopping centre to kill women and children

sonny.knowles · 25-11-2015 11:11PM

whatdoyouknow wrote: »

It's kind of strange that people are delighted these girls are dead. Young people join armies all the time, they make stupid decisions. Sure many Irish people joined the British army over the years, doesn't mean we should be delighted when they die.

Another ridiculous comparison.

Letree · 25-11-2015 11:13PM

I feel sorry for her family but not much sympathy for her. She has seen the reports in the media from IS she would have known the brutality they were inflicting on people over there. She choose to join them. I remember being 15 and i certainly knew right from wrong back then.

StinkyMunkey · 25-11-2015 11:14PM

And this kids is why we don't run away from home and join a death cult. No one knows how deep these two got involved in the sadistic nature of these death cult nut jobs. But I think the misfortune of these two should be used as an example to eejits who wanna run off and join this shower of cnuts.

The_Kew_Tour · 25-11-2015 11:15PM

whatdoyouknow wrote: »

What do you mean bad people? They killed millions of good people. Anyway this is off topic, what I was saying is that young people join murderous armies all the time, why not show delight when others die?

I presume you're talking about WW1 and 2 here.

whatdoyouknow · 25-11-2015 11:17PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I presume you're talking about WW1 and 2 here.

No. There were many places the British caused misery in. India especially and unfortunately many Irish joined their ranks throughout the years, some even reached high levels. Should we celebrate their deaths?

Ave Sodalis · 25-11-2015 11:18PM

sonny.knowles wrote:

I don't know it, but there is absolutely no justification for risking or experimenting with other peoples lives by letting these people back into Europe.

I don't mean just letting them back and they wander back home. You can let them back, sit them in a blast proof room from up to a fortnight being fed through a hatch in a multiple door with a conveyour belt system. At the end of the fortnight, they can stand trial for their crimes along with intensive psychotherapy. This is providing they manage to get out in the first place.

But people aren't going to agree to this because it doesn't involve an emotion filled, knee jerk reaction of just killing them all. It's not as easy as that. And yet, not only does it take members away from ISIS, but it also weakens their fear mongering and hatred spreading agenda.

tomwaterford · 25-11-2015 11:23PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

are you suggesting that they were ever a reasonable organisation for some teenagers to join?

In fairness when they started up years ago...they were one of a rake of anti-assed groups which arose out of a crack-down on pro democracy protesters?

The_Kew_Tour · 25-11-2015 11:24PM

whatdoyouknow wrote: »

No. There were many places the British caused misery in. India especially and unfortunately many Irish joined their ranks throughout the years, some even reached high levels. Should we celebrate their deaths?

If they killed innocent people then I would not care. I don't think I'd celebrate going to pub mind you. Just happy one less evil in world and move on.

jeremymurphy · 25-11-2015 11:25PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I know, how could anyone feel sympathy for her? Shockingly bad form.

Isis are evil, dangerous bastards. Of course a 16 yr old is a match for that level of evil. And the 17 yr old who had her eyes opened to their true form and tried to escape that evil, she got what she deserved???

JPNelsforearm · 25-11-2015 11:52PM

Its also important to note these chicks weren't actually Austrian, they were Bosnian muslims, its not just a case of them being "recruited by ISIS", they would have been exposed to this nonsense at home and in their communities.
To call them Austrian is a farce, they were no more Austrian then any of the "Irish" lads fighting over there.

Undercover Elephant · 25-11-2015 11:53PM

I don't understand what's mysterious about teenage girls being attracted to Daesh. Gangs never have trouble recruiting impressionable girls, and what's Daesh but the biggest, nastiest gang on the planet?

RDM_83 again · 25-11-2015 11:59PM

sonny.knowles wrote: »

Not sure the point you are making. She has been radicalised, she could never safely be part of western society again.

We should not take these people back because they claim to have changed their minds.

They made their decision, they need to see it through to the end, whatever that end is. Death in battle, a drone strike or otherwise.

Obviously ISIS will make an example of these cases to discourage deserters. That was a risk she took.

Nah I would argue that somebody who has genuinely given up on their radical beliefs and can give an insight into recruitment methods,mindets etc and take part in anti-extremism efforts is a useful asset.
You can make that argument even being coldly logical aside from the morality of a young person dying.

tomwaterford · 26-11-2015 12:03AM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Its also important to note these chicks weren't actually Austrian, they were Bosnian muslims, its not just a case of them being "recruited by ISIS", they would have been exposed to this nonsense at home and in their communities.
To call them Austrian is a farce, they were no more Austrian then any of the "Irish" lads fighting over there.

If they were Austrian citizens (had passports/citizenship)...then they were Austrian...much the same way the Irish peo

tomwaterford · 26-11-2015 12:04AM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Its also important to note these chicks weren't actually Austrian, they were Bosnian muslims, its not just a case of them being "recruited by ISIS", they would have been exposed to this nonsense at home and in their communities.
To call them Austrian is a farce, they were no more Austrian then any of the "Irish" lads fighting over there.

If they were Austrian citizens (had passports/citizenship)...then they were Austrian...much the same way the Irish people fighting there are Irish

Unless you want to go down a very bigoted/racist path of playing loose and fast with nationalities

Ulysses Gaze · 26-11-2015 12:07AM

It's the parents of the two girls I feel the sorriest for.

They're the ones left behind wondering what they could have done to prevent this.

Two sets of parents losing kids in their teens.

Putin · 26-11-2015 12:08AM

Candie wrote: »

Teenagers generally aren't renowned for their critical thinking ability or their comprehension of the consequences of their actions, and this is what recruiters for the likes of Daesh and other cults rely on - blinkered idealism.

She paid the highest price for her actions, and I'm sure there are plenty here who'll be delighted about that, but when I hear of people being beaten to death the only thing I feel is sickened.

Very well said. So many kids have been exploited and have paid the consequences. It certainly isn't anything to celebrate imo.

topmanamillion · 26-11-2015 12:09AM

I feel for her family and friends but certainly not for her. I can't feel for anyone that uses themselves to support daesh.
She was 16 when she left and whatever about nativity she should have known she was packing her bags and closing the door on her life of comfort in Austria in exchange for a life of repression in Syria.
Hopefully this will put off a few other young people who've had similar ideas cross their head.

opiniated · 26-11-2015 12:13AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Ask any Irish 16 year old what they think will happen if they go to join ISIS. Her youth is no excuse for her stupid decision , I can't feel any sympathy for somebody who joins the side of a murderous cult. It wasnt as if ISIS were secretive about their mass murder and violence so what did she expect.

Ask an Austrian 16 year old, and they'll give you the same answer.

Do you seriously believe that she turned 16, and suddenly decided to research joining Daesh, found the money to fund the trip to Syria, etc., all without help, and in a matter of weeks, or months?

Does. Not. Compute.

She had to have been younger than 16 when the initial approach was made.

Sand wrote: »

Problem is, ISIS are in favour of barbarism. They have burnt people to death, filmed it, released it to the media and held public celebrations. Now, a member of that group who willing left home and travelled by themself to join that group so they could live a barbaric life has met a barbaric end.

I have more sympathy for the victims of ISIS than I have for the members of ISIS. I do not count these girls as being victims of ISIS.

On the wider point, people describing them as ill informed or clueless children. They were, as others pointed out, teenagers. That's an age group, not a intellectual disability. They were far better informed than anyone else reading this thread was on ISIS or what they were about. No one here would have the first clue about how to join ISIS. Not the first clue - where do you fly to? What routes will attract police and intelligence services? What area is the safest to cross the border? Which towns or areas are held by ISIS so you approach the right group once you are in Syria.

These girls did some serious research and planning to accomplish their exit from their homes and journey across Europe and across the frontlines of a war to join ISIS. They were a lot of things, but they were not stupid or ill-informed about ISIS or what they do to their victims. ISIS recruiters practically revel in the brutality and it is a big selling point to people who join them. The girls happily lent themselves to further propaganda efforts to recruit more for ISIS who will meet a similar fate.

I have lot more sympathy for Daesh victims, too.

As to the rest, see above.

Try telling a 16 year old girl that it's a good idea to head off to be denied the freedom to walk alone, to sit in the same room as males, to choose your husband, to be denied an education, or to become a suicide bomber - and they'd rightly tell you to take a flying leap.

Start telling a 12 or 13 year old that people don't understand them, that they are being denied x, y, or z, and then spend years ramping up the rhetoric - and you have a better chance at recruitment.

So, again: At what age are Daesh beginning their indoctrination, that they can persuade people to go against the most basic human instinct - to live - and turn them into willing suicide bombers instead?

I'm sure it could be done in a relatively short period of time, if the recruits could be brainwashed 24 hours a day.
The point is, these western terrorists go to school, have a family life, homework etc.
It has to have taken quite a while to bring them to the point where they turned into murderous jihadists.....

sonny.knowles wrote: »

Not sure the point you are making. She has been radicalised, she could never safely be part of western society again.

We should not take these people back because they claim to have changed their minds.

They made their decision, they need to see it through to the end, whatever that end is. Death in battle, a drone strike or otherwise.

Obviously ISIS will make an example of these cases to discourage deserters. That was a risk she took.

I don't know whether she could ever safely be part of Western society again.

I'd rather see her in a Western jail than beaten to death, though.

The_Kew_Tour · 26-11-2015 12:14AM

I hear "celebrating" a lot.

It's not like we are out on streets shouting ole ole ole.

Some people are just glad or relieved to innocent people not being killed and a person who may have caused great harm by planting a bomb or blowing herself up taking kids, women and man with her in name of good old Islam.

Put it this way. Let's say she killed 100 people for ISIS, and then she thought same as she did before she was killed and she wanted out, would you be so forgiving? If you say Yes, I'll show you a liar.

SpaceSasqwatch · 26-11-2015 12:17AM

psinno wrote: »

Valuable life lesson. Don't join terrorist groups.

I done a lot of stupid things when I was young and thank fuk that wasnt one of them !

Azalea · 26-11-2015 12:17AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Some people are just glad or relieved to innocent people not being killed and a person who may have caused great harm by planting a bomb or blowing herself up taking kids, women and man with her in name of good old Islam.

Did that seem likely though, if she was escaping? I suppose we can't know for sure.

Put it this way. Let's say she killed 100 people for ISIS, and then she thought same as she did before she was killed and she wanted out, would you be so forgiving?

Doubtful. I know I definitely wouldn't. But there aren't reports indicating that she did that, so it's kinda moot.

The_Kew_Tour · 26-11-2015 12:23AM

Azalea wrote: »

Did that seem likely though, if she was escaping? I suppose we can't know for sure.

Doubtful. I know I definitely wouldn't. But there aren't reports indicating that she did that, so it's kinda moot.

But why join ISIS in first place. She knew what she was joining, she did. I doubt she was upset about Paris on 13th of November put it that way.

tomwaterford · 26-11-2015 12:26AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

But why join ISIS in first place. She knew what she was joining, she did. I doubt she was upset about Paris on 13th of September, put it that way.

Going by the link In the OP she's dead with months

Sand · 26-11-2015 12:28AM

opiniated wrote: »

I have lot more sympathy for Daesh victims, too.

As to the rest, see above.

Try telling a 16 year old girl that it's a good idea to head off to be denied the freedom to walk alone, to sit in the same room as males, to choose your husband, to be denied an education, or to become a suicide bomber - and they'd rightly tell you to take a flying leap.

Start telling a 12 or 13 year old that people don't understand them, that they are being denied x, y, or z, and then spend years ramping up the rhetoric - and you have a better chance at recruitment.

So, again: At what age are Daesh beginning their indoctrination, that they can persuade people to go against the most basic human instinct - to live - and turn them into willing suicide bombers instead?

I'm sure it could be done in a relatively short period of time, if the recruits could be brainwashed 24 hours a day.
The point is, these western terrorists go to school, have a family life, homework etc.
It has to have taken quite a while to bring them to the point where they turned into murderous jihadists.....

But the issue is, she was being indoctrinated by a Western education system in her school, in her media, by her colleagues which broadly praised western values. If she was some empty headed eejit ready to accept whatever story was being told why isn't she swooning over the likes of One Direction?

She was not kidnapped and forced to attend ISIS brainwashing camp. She self-radicalised. She sought out ISIS material, she agreed with it, and she sought out more. She got to the point where she planned and researched a complex and difficult journey to join her ISIS brethren back in the 7th century. She wilfully chose this path, despite all competing indoctrination by the Western society her parents and family has escaped to. She is not a victim. She chose her course, and the end was perfectly predictable.

And she fell out with her ISIS brethren and probably found out why ISIS 7th century justice system she wanted to impose on others isn't actually all that great when it was imposed on her. Maybe all that western education she ignored and sneered at had a point.

This is not a great tragedy. It was someone who made their own fate and no one and no thing can save someone from stupid.

The_Kew_Tour · 26-11-2015 12:31AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Going by the link In the OP she's dead with months

Well, so be it. Point still stands.

They went on their own accord.

You live by the Gun......

JPNelsforearm · 26-11-2015 12:34AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

If they were Austrian citizens (had passports/citizenship)...then they were Austrian...much the same way the Irish people fighting there are Irish

Unless you want to go down a very bigoted/racist path of playing loose and fast with nationalities

Playing fast and loose with nationalities is pretending that a Bosnian muslim living in a Bosnian muslim household and attending mosques and fraternising with other muslims is your typical Austrian teenager. Same with the "Irish" fighting in Syria. Its not Seamus O'Halpin from Dingle thats over in Syria, its some lad from the region who has an Irish passport, who clearly doesnt see himself as Irish.

If Irish and Austrian people were travelling over to Syria it would be a serious issue, but its not, its laughably predictable as to who these people are. You cant begin to understand her motivations if you pretend she was just some random Austrian chick who upped sticks and joined ISIS, or was brainwashed for no reason and then fled to Syria. She is a product of her environment, this was not a shock to her family/co religionists.

Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

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