Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

darkpagandeath wrote: »

If I Shout "Praise Jesus" Does that make me a Christian fundamentalist ?

Whilst shooting/beheading someone? yes.

and even if you are just shouting it randomly or in excitement, I'd mark you down as a headcase.

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Just came across this which pretty much cements the fact of Turkeys support for Daesh.

Everyone knows they deal with them, but that website, wtf ? That's even worse than Russia Today...

Somehow I doubt that that is what he said, I imagine it will be more like how Russia needs to stop bombing the anti-Assad groups. But I could be wrong, I just find it inconceivable that he would come out in full support of ISIS.

edit: That didn't take long:

ANKARA

We hereby state that the recent stories on some foreign media outlets claiming that Anadolu Agency did an interview with Turkish National Intelligence Organization (MIT) Undersecretary Hakan Fidan and published it are totally false.

It is known that the MIT has no such practice of speaking to media.

These fabricated stories by foreign sources are regarded as part of an international psychological campaign against Turkey.

Necessary steps have been taken to have such fabricated stories removed, with legal rights being reserved.

the evasion_kid wrote: »

the Russian pilot who survived has said they received no warning from the turks and didn't cross over into turkish airspace.

- Yesterday morning Russia said the plane was struck by a SAM.... It wasn't.
- Yesterday Russia said that their planes never entered Syria, though we know both did.
- They say they received no warning to vacate airspace..... but we know they did (and one of the two planes complied).

There is a pattern here regarding Moscow's utterances on these issues.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I mean, the picture already showed they did cross into Turkish airspace, no matter how short it may have been.

The Turkish picture. I regard both countries as being utterly unreliable in whatever they say.

MPFGLB wrote: »

Can you imagine if the Turks shot down a US or UK jet and then killed the pilots...there would be uproar

All this talk about flying over Turkish airspace...it was matter of seconds
Hardly deserves death ....and those Turk Syrian rebels do noting without the say so of the Turkish government

Why is Turkey in NATO...a more duplicitous terrorists supporting immoral group I would be hard pushed to find

They have pushed for the overthrow of Assad and armed rebels
Not to mention how they treat the Kurds

But that all pales into insignificance with the bombing and destruction of a Russian jet and murder of pilots.....

Things have now escalated onto a different plane

Not to mention they're continued denial of the Armenian genocide and their continued occupation of half of Cyprus. Shower of absolute gowls.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

They wiped the floor with them during the tet offensive.

Ehhh the Tet offensive where it took a vastly superior force, in terms of firepower and resources, of the US a month to recapture Hue and they were fighting for three odd months at Khe Sanh.
And even after all that the US abandoned the base.

Whilst the Viet Cong\NVA suffered huge casualties it was a long term victory really for the North.
Some believe it was actually a way of removing Southern communists and allowed the North have more control over the South.
And that one massive offensive helped break the back of American morale.
1968 proved to be the highest casualty rates for the US, it resulted in a high draft number being proposed and McNamara resigned.

The South Vietnamese who had performed better than expected on the battlefield suffered with higher desertion rates after the offensive.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Operation Linebacker ii, (the only bombing operation even close to unrestricted) pretty much degraded their military infrastructure to non existence. If they had kept up that pace of bombing and expanded it into Cambodia and Laos and the Chinese border they would have won.

And if you had nuked China as proposed by McArthur you might have won the Korean War.
A lot of ifs.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

But the hippy power told and the US abandoned the South to the commies after the Paris accords and prohibited further air strikes with the Case-Church Amendment.

Those damm hippies.
Maybe the hippies didn't want to go die in the jungle for some old guys back in Washington and the likes of the sons of the old guys in Washington who were serving out their time in the national guard or in college. :rolleyes:

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Heavy unrestricted bombing and CAS in conjunction with a South Vietnamese push couldn't have failed.
Unrestricted bombing and strafing, if you have the stomach for it, is irresistible, Obviously you need some ground element, but you saw what happened to the South Vietnamese, Gaddafi, Saddam, Hitler, once they lost the air, they lost the war.

You forgot the napalm, and the agent orange.
Just poison the sh** out of them and shure as hell you might win.

I don't think anyone should ever lump the forces of South Vietnam, Gaddafi and Saddam with the forces of Hitler.
FFS the levels of committment, ability and professionalism of Hitler's forces in comparison to the rest makes the comparison ridiculous.

Bambi wrote: »

Eh yes we did.

The Fenians did a fair bit of it back in the day.

The Old IRA were enthusiastic about it but lacked the resources to really get it going.

The IRA had a bash at it in the 40s


And of course, the hero of moderate Ireland, John Redmond, sent Irish lads off to slaughter a huge amount of people in other countries. But that was completely different apparently

Of course lets have a bit of the ould self flagellation.

And the fact he even have to draw Redmond into it and compare sending guys to a fight on battlefields in a war to what the likes of ISIS and al-aqaeda does makes this discussion null and void for me.
I don't recall Irish fenians, old IRA or even PIRA burning guys to death in cages, decapitating them, etc.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Not to mention they're continued denial of the Armenian genocide and their continued occupation of half of Cyprus. Shower of absolute gowls.

Yeah this is why I've been pretty on this topic, I don't like Turkey too much for the above reasons, but I'm not a big fan of Russia either for obvious reasons.

StewartGriffin wrote: »

That kind of stuff has been going on for a while now, at least since the Ukraine/Crimea thing. Lies so blatantly false they're almost childlike. Like a little boy denying he took any sweets when his mouth is still full of them.
Amazingly, some people really ARE that gullible.

It's what they call operation muddy waters ,

Spew out tons of propaganda then watch a few people take the bait ,
Who in turn post the propaganda believing they found an alternative truth that's been hidden from main stream media .

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The incursion into turkish airspace was very short and could easily have been down to a slight navigational error, it seems like the turks were waiting for any opportunity to have a go and it should be noted that the turkish plane did incur into Syrian airspace in the pilots eagerness to fire on the russian plane.

The Turks lost a Phantom back into 2012 during an incursion into Syrian airspace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2012_interception_of_Turkish_aircraft

"Turkey's President, Abdullah Gul, has said the Turkish fighter jet shot down by Syria's air defence forces on Friday may have violated Syrian airspace.
Mr Gul said it was routine for warplanes flying at high speed to cross borders for short distances.
Syria has said it engaged the aircraft in its airspace "according to the laws that govern such situations", and that it crashed into the Mediterranean Sea."

And that reconnaissance jet was in Syrian airspace for over five minutes... The Russian jet, under twenty seconds..