Is there life after death?

Tarzana2 · 24-11-2015 02:18AM

lawlolawl wrote: »

You just go out like a light being switched off when you die.

Your body shuts down and you are just "gone" (for want of a better term).

There's as much after life as there was before life. Nothing. Oblivion. Nonexistence.

To believe anything else is silly and childish.

It's so hard to imagine though, which is why many humans struggle with it and believe that there must be something else. I don't, but I understand where they are coming from.

nozzferrahhtoo · 24-11-2015 09:15AM

MPFGLB wrote: »

no one spoke of shame till you brought it up

Sure, I mentioned it. I never denied that. But I did not mention it in the form you claimed I did. As I said however, the more impact a claim has the more it should scale with the evidence. And all I pointed out was that a couple of users, when it was shown there was no basis _whatsoever_ for the crap they were espousing on this forum, simply closed their account and ran.

MPFGLB wrote: »

So the brain ceases to exist at death and therefore consciousness as we know it which has not been fully proven ceases to exits proves nothing about life after death

Yet the fact I presented still remains a fact. Which means in the discussion so far I have presented facts, while you have not. And the fact is, once again, that 100% of the knowledge we DO have at this time about consciousness at this time links it to the brain. 0% of the knowledge we DO have at this time shows the possibility of any kind of disconnect between the two.

So you can throw out a list of "maybes" all you like. There is nothing wrong with that. Ruminating and Navel Gazing on "maybes" is a genuinely useful thing to do. Much of science, for example, was moved forward by someone daring to think "maybe". But until some substantiation is found for that "maybe".... then it must remain on the "maybe" shelf.

MPFGLB wrote: »

I am just as wary of those who say he definitely (or some afterlife) does not exist.

Yet you also appear to have issue with those who say neither but instead point out "There is no basis whatsoever at this time for thinking a god or after life exist, and so the claim should be simply categorized as entirely unsubstantiated at this time".

MPFGLB wrote: »

So if the theory that God (or some divine or superior being) does not exist ...then what is the concept/purpose or intelligence behind creation and purpose of an evolving universe.

Not sure I get your point here. Why are you assuming there is an intelligence behind it, or a purpose? Where are you getting these assumptions from?

Rippington · 24-11-2015 10:06PM

Gael23 wrote: »

You go into a hole in the ground and get consumed by insects. That's the end of you.

Just as well we have cremation so .

Hagar7 · 24-11-2015 10:41PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Actually the simple answer to this is "I do not know". Because we do not. But it is a very common trick by theists to demand you give them an answer if you do not buy their one. Because they feel that having ANY answer is somehow more credible than having no answer..... no matter how nonsense their answer is.

Imagine this short dialogue between two quite young boys.

Boy1: Where do babies come from?
Boy2: The stork brings them.
Boy1: Really, how do you know that?
Boy2: Well where do you think they come from?
Boy1: I really do not know.
Boy2: AHA! See? The stork brings them!

Boy2 is clearly talking nonsense. He does not know any more than Boy1 does. But he pretends to. YOU are boy2 in this analogy. You have no more answers that I do, so you invent one, or buy into one that someone else invented.

There ARE quite a lot of working theories in Science for where "it all came from" and there is some substantiation for them (unlike yours). But at this point we are still at the "We do not know" stage. But there is come really promising work there. From people like Laurence Krauss.... to people like those working at CERN.... they are looking at the problem and working towards an answer.

Billions of €€€ spent on a wasted project,that's whar CERN is,I'd rather let God decide what's in front of us not something that's looking for dark matter/particles.

Hagar7 · 24-11-2015 10:54PM

HIB wrote: »

That said. 70-80 years sounds a bit miserable in the scheme of thingd. I'd settle for maybe 200-300.

The 200-300 years lifespan will be the norm as people are getting fitter,this is quite long but interesting if a bit long.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/11/-sp-live-forever-extend-life-calico-google-longevity

Hagar7 · 24-11-2015 11:18PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

The fact you opened this thread would seem to suggest that your belief is closer to hope rather than belief in the true sense of the term?
But what I find difficult to respect, is someone being arrogant enough to tell me that they know something unknowable with absolute certainty. These kind of people are highly frustrating individuals...
l

Without hope there is nothing imo.
Arrogant,nope,that's not in my nature,you don't know me from Adam yet you say I am,why?

ThinkProgress · 24-11-2015 11:38PM

Hagar7 wrote: »

Without hope there is nothing imo.
Arrogant,nope,that's not in my nature,you don't know me from Adam yet you say I am,why?

My point is that faith and hope are not the same thing. Hoping there is a heaven, is not the same as saying you have faith in heaven - do you see what I'm saying?

Your faith doesn't seem like real faith in the true sense of the word. I have no problem with hope. Just don't call it faith...

The "arrogant" point wasn't directed specifically at you. Just anybody with strong faith in something they can't prove. (if that describes you, then yes it applies to you also)

Gael23 · 24-11-2015 11:39PM

Rippington wrote: »

Just as well we have cremation so .

In that case you go into an oven and you end your existence that way.

AtomicHorror · 24-11-2015 11:45PM

Hagar7 wrote: »

Billions of €€€ spent on a wasted project,that's whar CERN is,I'd rather let God decide what's in front of us not something that's looking for dark matter/particles.

And yet you still watch for cars when you cross the road.

Hagar7 · 24-11-2015 11:49PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Nothing with credible evidence has ever happened to suggest otherwise.

Jesus came down from the cross,what more do you want Thomas.

wakka12 · 24-11-2015 11:51PM

There is no life after death as there is just simply no reason to believe there is one. Completely baseless 'opinion', why don't believe in anything else without evidence, religion and the afterlife being the only exceptions people make to this rule usually.

Hagar7 · 25-11-2015 12:29AM

wakka12 wrote: »

There is no life after death as there is just simply no reason to believe there is one. Completely baseless 'opinion', why don't believe in anything else without evidence, religion and the afterlife being the only exceptions people make to this rule usually.

None?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nVI5tXMl_g

Kev W · 25-11-2015 12:08PM

Hagar7 wrote: »

None?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nVI5tXMl_g

That's right, none.

nozzferrahhtoo · 25-11-2015 12:11PM

Hagar7 wrote: »

Billions of €€€ spent on a wasted project,that's whar CERN is

Then I can do little but assume you understand nothing about what CERN is and does and what it is for. That and simply remain thankful that your relevance to the purse strings is precisely zero.

Hagar7 wrote: »

None?

Somebody laments the fact there is nothing but baseless opinion.... and you respond with a video of someone offering baseless opinion???

Hagar7 wrote: »

Without hope there is nothing imo.

I am all for hope too. I however do not need to subscribe to ideas without evidence in order to obtain any.

Baggy Trousers · 25-11-2015 12:14PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Sure

nozzferrahhtoo, you are wasted in After Hours. Excellent posts every time.

nozzferrahhtoo · 25-11-2015 12:42PM

Hah last time someone said that to me it was more of the form "Ah you know you are wasted here. You should leave...... no really..... soon"

MPFGLB · 25-11-2015 12:48PM

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

nozzferrahhtoo, you are wasted in After Hours. Excellent posts every time.

Guess it takes all sorts ...but puts me off posting as who has the time to read pages of the same verbose fact molding , pedantic point scoring. Like saying he produces evidence to counter people who believe in God or saying people who argue with him leave the form with shame ???

No effort to engage ...only to point score
I give up as who has the time or inclination ...and I am not leaving this discussion because of my 'shame'

Kev W · 25-11-2015 12:50PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

Guess it takes all sorts ...but puts me off posting as who has the time to read pages of the same verbose fact molding , pedantic point scoring. Like saying he produces evidence to counter people who believe in God or saying people who argue with him leave the form with shame ???

No effort to engage ...only to point score
I give up as who has the time or inclination ...and I am not leaving this discussion because of my 'shame'

Facts are such petty annoyances, aren't they? :pac:

MPFGLB · 25-11-2015 12:54PM

Kev W wrote: »

Facts are such petty annoyances, aren't they? :pac:

But there aren't any facts that prove or disprove a God....that is just it

And trying to argue that there are is as insane as proving there is a God...no matter how many pages of 'I said this/you said' that does not make it exist

But I guess point scoring isn't about engagement

Kev W · 25-11-2015 12:58PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

But there aren't any facts that prove or disprove a God....that is just it

And trying to argue that there are is as insane as proving there is a God...no matter how any pages of 'I said this/you said' that does not make it exist

But I guess point scoring isn't about engagement

Nobody has claimed to have proof that there's no God, so I don't know what you're getting at there.

I'm not sure why you're claiming you haven't been "engaged" with. You've received an answer for every question you've asked, which I should point out is more than you've done in return, making your claim that you're not being engaged with somewhat hypocritical. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's only meant as "point scoring".

Baggy Trousers · 25-11-2015 01:40PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Hah last time someone said that to me it was more of the form "Ah you know you are wasted here. You should leave...... no really..... soon"

You make me want to be a better atheist

nozzferrahhtoo · 25-11-2015 01:45PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

puts me off posting as who has the time to read pages of the same verbose fact molding

I am sorry if my post length is beyond your attention span. I can certainly move to whittle it down for you in future if you require. If I can be said to "worship" anything in this life, it is communication. Discourse. So if I can facilitate your understanding of my words and points better, then by all means tell me how.

As for fact molding, I am open to example of this if you wish to quote me and ask me to defend my view somewhere.

MPFGLB wrote: »

Like saying he produces evidence to counter people who believe in God

I think you will find what I said was I produce evidence to support MY positions when I espouse them. Every time. I do not recall saying what you said I did.

MPFGLB wrote: »

or saying people who argue with him leave the form with shame ???

I did not say this happens in general. I said it HAS happened. Twice that I can think of. It is not a common occurrence however, that I am aware of.

MPFGLB wrote: »

No effort to engage ...only to point score

Hard to engage if you dodge offering evidence for your positions. Actually most of my attempts to engage people on this forum tend to be me trying again and again to back up what they have said. Because THEN I CAN engage, because they have given something to engage with.

But how can one usefully engage with assertion? It seems to me that some people contrive to be un-engageable, so they can then level the false accusation that you refuse to engage. I suspect this is what you are doing.

MPFGLB wrote: »

I give up as who has the time or inclination ...and I am not leaving this discussion because of my 'shame'

No you appear to be leaving it because you can not back up a single thing you have said on the thread, and did not expect to be called on it.

MPFGLB wrote: »

But there aren't any facts that prove or disprove a God....that is just it

Which is the problem of the theists not the atheist. Because it is the person claiming god exists that holds the entire burden of proof. All I have suggested is that UNTIL such time as you can substantiate the existence of a god, then this "god" and religions derived from it have no place in our public halls of power, education, science and medicine.

MPFGLB wrote: »

But I guess point scoring isn't about engagement

Then stop doing it. I sure have not been.

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

You make me want to be a better atheist

Jesus!

VisibleGorilla · 25-11-2015 01:48PM

Everything points to no, so unless there is evidence against that I'll go with pure nothingness after death.

ScumLord · 25-11-2015 02:06PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I'm not talking about accepting beliefs. "Believing" something you can't prove, is wrong minded.

But when people say there's definitely no god/afterlife, no doubt, categorically... etc. Are they not slightly guilty of the same leap of faith as the "god believers"?

That's true, I can't say for a certainty that a god like creature created this universe with the intention of intelligent species like ourselves evolving at some stage. I can say with quite a bit of confidence that the bible and the rest of the holy books are just made up, people wrote them, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that a god like creature was involved at any stage and given the fact we can historically follow the development of religions, I think it's safe to say a god didn't make everything for us and isn't actively managing our lives.

Part of the problem with spiritual thinking these days is there is no structure to it. Individuals are just making up their own beliefs and values on the fly to suit whatever mood and situation they happen to be in.

lukesmom · 25-11-2015 02:17PM

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Hang on til I make a cup of tae

MPFGLB · 25-11-2015 02:47PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I am sorry if my post length is beyond your attention span. I can certainly move to whittle it down for you in future if you require. If I can be said to "worship" anything in this life, it is communication. Discourse. So if I can facilitate your understanding of my words and points better, then by all means tell me how.

As for fact molding, I am open to example of this if you wish to quote me and ask me to defend my view somewhere.

I think you will find what I said was I produce evidence to support MY positions when I espouse them. Every time. I do not recall saying what you said I did.

I did not say this happens in general. I said it HAS happened. Twice that I can think of. It is not a common occurrence however, that I am aware of.

Hard to engage if you dodge offering evidence for your positions. Actually most of my attempts to engage people on this forum tend to be me trying again and again to back up what they have said. Because THEN I CAN engage, because they have given something to engage with.

But how can one usefully engage with assertion? It seems to me that some people contrive to be un-engageable, so they can then level the false accusation that you refuse to engage. I suspect this is what you are doing.

No you appear to be leaving it because you can not back up a single thing you have said on the thread, and did not expect to be called on it.

Which is the problem of the theists not the atheist. Because it is the person claiming god exists that holds the entire burden of proof. All I have suggested is that UNTIL such time as you can substantiate the existence of a god, then this "god" and religions derived from it have no place in our public halls of power, education, science and medicine.

Then stop doing it. I sure have not been.

Jesus!

As i said...who has the time or inclination to read this let alone reply to the insults and the about turns, haze inducing points that basically all say " I am a expert of debate, a God (if you will) of intellect and in order to prove it I am going to bore you within an inch of you life saying the same stuff over and over again therefore displaying my superior ability " ...and can't imagine many who are not part of this bi lateral discussion even wanting to ever read it

Sorry I can't be bothered as it does not enlighten ...it does not even engage....it is just like a drum banging away ..until it becomes hopefully a distance noise ....bye bye

AmboMan · 25-11-2015 02:49PM

I believe that organ donation is the only true life after death.

Baggy Trousers · 25-11-2015 02:50PM

AmboMan wrote: »

I believe that organ donation is the only true life after death.

Heavy first post!

nozzferrahhtoo · 25-11-2015 02:52PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

As i said...who has the time or inclination to read this let alone reply to the insults and the about turns, haze inducing points that basically all say " I am a expert of debate

Well given the post contained NONE of that, you have at least proven the start of your post to be true. You did not read it

Not reading it is one thing, nothing wrong with that. Inventing what it contains while not reading though.... that is a whole lower level to stoop to. And you want to talk about "shame". For shame!

MPFGLB wrote: »

....bye bye

Oh good another chance to test out "nozzferrahhtoos first law of forum posting" which states "the probability of a user responding to you goes UP with each indication they will not be".

AmboMan wrote: »

I believe that organ donation is the only true life after death.

I want someone with serious alcohol issues to get my organs then! For them it will be a new lease of life. But by your idea for ME it will be I had Life..... then I had death.... then party time all the time!!!!

Kev W · 25-11-2015 02:52PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

As i said...who has the time or inclination to read this let alone reply to the insults and the about turns, haze inducing points that basically all say " I am a expert of debate, a God (if you will) of intellect and in order to prove it I am going to bore you within an inch of you life saying the same stuff over and over again therefore displaying my superior ability " ...and can't imagine many who are not part of this bi lateral discussion even wanting to ever read it

Sorry I can't be bothered as it does not enlighten ...it does not even engage....it is just like a drum banging away ..until it becomes hopefully a distance noise ....bye bye

None of this has actually happened. You are making it up and we can all see you doing so. I honestly can't imagine why you think anyone would see it any other way, unless you have some definition of the word "engage" that is exclusively yours.

Is there life after death?

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