Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

La Fenetre · 24-11-2015 10:08PM

jmayo wrote: »

Afghanistan is a much different place to Syria/Iraq.
Nobody has ever subjugated the Afghans.

Apart from the Afghans

Gatling · 24-11-2015 10:09PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Could be a ploy for FF recognition ?

Possible that or cannon fodder for anti air weapons

XR3i · 24-11-2015 10:10PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

there are two...

okay, you say it

La Fenetre · 24-11-2015 10:13PM

jmayo wrote: »

The Irish fought based on whether you were for the treaty or against it.

Or rather, as history proved, to see which gang was going to get the most political power to make their cronies a fortune by robbing and extorting their own people.

BlaasForRafa · 24-11-2015 10:16PM

Gatling wrote: »

They have been using unarmed Iranian f4 phantoms and a f14 for escort duty for some odd reason.

Iranian escorts were only used over Iranian airspace, the Iranian phantoms being used were the reconnaissance variant. The russian Tu-95's fired their cruise missiles from inside Iranian airspace, the Russian Tu-160's fired their missiles from over the Mediterranean.

Yakkyda · 24-11-2015 10:17PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

yeah, afghanistan is a unique place inhabited by tough people for whom war is but a way of life and pain means nothing; yet one wonders why anyone would even want to rule that land…oh, and nukes haven’t been tried yet…

Only one reason why people have ever tried it, resources. Read up on it. It's not the wasteland many think it is. It's quite resource rich, nobody would bother their bollox otherwise.

Gatling · 24-11-2015 10:18PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Iranian escorts were only used over Iranian airspace, the Iranian phantoms being used were the reconnaissance variant. The russian Tu-95's fired their cruise missiles from inside Iranian airspace, the Russian Tu-160's fired their missiles from over the Mediterranean.

Do you think they were afraid to fly outside Iran with the bombers

Wurzelbert · 24-11-2015 10:21PM

Yakkyda wrote: »

Only one reason why people have ever tried it, resources. Read up on it. It's not the wasteland many think it is. It's quite resource rich, nobody would bother their bollox otherwise.

i know afhanistan has some natural resources, yet not aware of anything you wouldn’t get elsewhere for less blood…i reckon there are other reasons as well, geo-strategic considerations and trade routes and so on, especially back in the day…

La Fenetre · 24-11-2015 10:23PM

Gatling wrote: »

Do you think they were afraid to fly outside Iran with the bombers

Have you tried it on playstation ?

Yakkyda · 24-11-2015 10:24PM

La Fenetre wrote: »

Or rather, as history proved, to see which gang was going to get the most political power to make their cronies a fortune by robbing and extorting their own people.

That's the case every where, c'mon now, stop being silly.

La Fenetre · 24-11-2015 10:29PM

Yakkyda wrote: »

That's the case every where, c'mon now, stop being silly.

How's it silly if its the case everywhere ? The only silly thing is people not recognising it.

Gatling · 24-11-2015 10:29PM

La Fenetre wrote: »

Have you tried it on playstation ?

Tried what on a PlayStation

Yakkyda · 24-11-2015 10:30PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

i know afhanistan has some natural resources, yet not aware of anything you wouldn’t get elsewhere for less blood…i reckon there are other reasons as well, geo-strategic considerations and trade routes and so on, especially back in the day…

All true, but the people that authorise this stuff don't really care about blood spilled, only end results. Unfortunately.

BlaasForRafa · 24-11-2015 10:31PM

Gatling wrote: »

Do you think they were afraid to fly outside Iran with the bombers

The Iranian air force has flown missions in support of the Iraqi government so I don't think afraid has much to do with it. The simple answer is that the range of the cruise missiles is such that they can launch them safely without getting into hostile airspace.

You can see the F-14's escorting the rather beautiful Tu-95 in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8jnHqIHNeU

Wurzelbert · 24-11-2015 10:32PM

Yakkyda wrote: »

All true, but the people that authorise this stuff don't really care about blood spilled, only end results. Unfortunately.

so you really think the yanks and everybody else are in there for natural resources?

Wurzelbert · 24-11-2015 10:34PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The Iranian air force has flown missions in support of the Iraqi government so I don't think afraid has much to do with it. The simple answer is that the range of the cruise missiles is such that they can launch them safely without getting into hostile airspace.

You can see the F-14's escorting the rather beautiful Tu-95 in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8jnHqIHNeU

fascinating how the iranians can keep those f14s in the air…and beautiful aircraft they are…

Yakkyda · 24-11-2015 10:34PM

Those trade routes still apply I'd imagine, why else is every major power of sticking their snots in otherwise?

helimachoptor · 24-11-2015 10:35PM

Been off line for most of the day.

Read the first few pages then got bored.

Obama has already told everyone to calm down. Neither will enter into an open war, i wouldnt be surprised to see the Ruskies fly very close to the border again and if anything happens they will let loose with their air to air missiles.

However from what i can tell, the F16s are C versions and are packing pretty decent tech packages, while the SU is a workhorse but an old workhorse, hard to know what its packing.

Russia is deploying a missile carrier, so any sniff of aggressive Turkish action and a few missiles will be let loose.

One pilot dead, shot while parachuting, the other one is MIA, one marine killed, Putin is pissed anyway

helimachoptor · 24-11-2015 10:41PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

fascinating how the iranians can keep those f14s in the air…and beautiful aircraft they are…

Needs must, they arent getting anything else!
Wonder if they are making the parts themselves, but the airframes must be beyond end of life at this point

Gatling · 24-11-2015 10:43PM

helimachoptor wrote: »

Needs must, they arent getting anything else!
Wonder if they are making the parts themselves, but the airframes must be beyond end of life at this point

I believe some parts are made in Iran others are retro fitted some how there was a documentary about it on YouTube a while back

Yakkyda · 24-11-2015 10:43PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

so you really think the yanks and everybody else are in there for natural resources?

Pretty much, they don't really care about the people there. They want to be seen to look after their interests. But they don't care. It is what it is, maybe I'm wrong, but I'll bet both me balls I'm not.

10 years down the line maybe we'll see.

BlaasForRafa · 24-11-2015 10:43PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

fascinating how the iranians can keep those f14s in the air…and beautiful aircraft they are…

The Iranian's have built a whole industry out of keeping the F-14's (along with other american aircraft from the shah's era)in the air, they really are pretty resourceful.

The F-14 was exceptionally effective in the Iran-Iraq war, the mere sight of one was usually enough so scare off Iraqi migs.

La Fenetre · 24-11-2015 10:44PM

Yakkyda wrote: »

Pretty much, they don't really care about the people there. They want to be seen to look after their interests. But they don't care. It is what it is, maybe I'm wrong, but I'll bet both me balls I'm not.

Hitler bet his one, but sure where did it get him

Victor · 24-11-2015 10:47PM

snubbleste wrote: »

How much would an SU-24 fighter jet cost?

The Su-24 is an attack aircraft / medium bomber, not a 'fighter'.

New, an equivalent aircraft would cost €50-75 million*. However, the Su-24 hasn't been built in many years, so would have originally cost much less.

* Note that aircraft production cost estimates vary wildly, as much of the cost is in creating the design and the infrastructure. So, while the B2s cost on average €2,130 million each, but that's because they only made 21 of them. If they had made hundreds of them, unit cost would have dropped to a few hundred million.

paska · 24-11-2015 10:55PM

RIP to the Pilots.
It must be terrible to see your loved ones dead on live leak surrounded by a gang of apes shouting Allah Akbar.

They probably can't shoot their load never mind shoot down a fighter jet

KingBrian2 · 24-11-2015 11:12PM

helimachoptor wrote: »

Been off line for most of the day.

Read the first few pages then got bored.

Obama has already told everyone to calm down. Neither will enter into an open war, i wouldnt be surprised to see the Ruskies fly very close to the border again and if anything happens they will let loose with their air to air missiles.

However from what i can tell, the F16s are C versions and are packing pretty decent tech packages, while the SU is a workhorse but an old workhorse, hard to know what its packing.

Russia is deploying a missile carrier, so any sniff of aggressive Turkish action and a few missiles will be let loose.

One pilot dead, shot while parachuting, the other one is MIA, one marine killed, Putin is pissed anyway

A bit rich from President Obama considering we know that Turkey an ally is arming the groups doing the killing in Syria. This incident may fade away not Turkey's involvement with the opposition which amounts to facilitating Al Nusra.

JPNelsforearm · 24-11-2015 11:41PM

jmayo wrote: »

What the fook.
They didn't wipe the floor with the NVA.
And bombing Cambodia didn't mean any game was over.

The only way the US could have won was if they actually had invaded North Vietnam which they never offically did.
They couldn't save Suth Vietnam with airpower alone.
You will never win a war with airpower alone even now.

They wiped the floor with them during the tet offensive.

Operation Linebacker ii, (the only bombing operation even close to unrestricted) pretty much degraded their military infrastructure to non existence. If they had kept up that pace of bombing and expanded it into Cambodia and Laos and the Chinese border they would have won.
But the hippy power told and the US abandoned the South to the commies after the Paris accords and prohibited further air strikes with the Case-Church Amendment.
Heavy unrestricted bombing and CAS in conjunction with a South Vietnamese push couldn't have failed.
Unrestricted bombing and strafing, if you have the stomach for it, is irresistible, Obviously you need some ground element, but you saw what happened to the South Vietnamese, Gaddafi, Saddam, Hitler, once they lost the air, they lost the war.

Areyouwell · 24-11-2015 11:47PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

They wiped the floor with them during the tet offensive..

And yet here we are, the Americans suffered a humiliating defeat in Vietnam. A defeat they have still not recovered from to this day.

JPNelsforearm · 24-11-2015 11:53PM

Areyouwell wrote: »

And yet here we are, the Americans suffered a humiliating defeat in Vietnam. A defeat they have still not recovered from to this day.

A humiliating political defeat certainly, and that is still true today, politicians make procurement and military decisions, when they shouldnt. The Yanks have too many horse traders at the top to ever be 100% on the ball when it comes to warfare.

Wurzelbert · 24-11-2015 11:56PM

Areyouwell wrote: »

And yet here we are, the Americans suffered a humiliating defeat in Vietnam. A defeat they have still not recovered from to this day.

though that depends on how one defines „defeat“…the american humiliation in vietnam was primarily political…and yes, it did shake the us to its core…

Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

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