Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

barney 20v · 24-11-2015 05:25PM

live by the sword.......

Jelle1880 · 24-11-2015 05:27PM

Wizard! wrote: »

Since it is written in Greek, I will translate:

source: http://www.voltairenet.org/article189384.html

You see now how it adds up with ISIS and why Turks downed the plane?
Nothing to do with air violations.

I find it amusing that you shift the attention to things like this when it's becoming clear that you're wrong.

Everybody knows that Turkey isn't exactly... hard against ISIS, to say the least.

But that's got nothing to do with Turkey warning the Russian ambassador weeks ago that this might happen if Russia keeps entering it's airspace, and Russia apparently wiping their arse with that threat.

the evasion_kid · 24-11-2015 05:29PM

The Sun King wrote: »

Saw a video on twitter of a pilot coming under fairly heavy fire as he was coming down to land. Don't know who was firing but there must have been 15 of them.

I can see Putin sending in spetsnaz..he never forgot those Chechen rebels who beheaded those Russians in dagestan

Wizard! · 24-11-2015 05:29PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I find it amusing that you shift the attention to things like this when it's becoming clear that you're wrong.

Everybody knows that Turkey isn't exactly... hard against ISIS, to say the least.

But that's got nothing to do with Turkey warning the Russian ambassador weeks ago that this might happen if Russia keeps entering it's airspace, and Russia apparently wiping their arse with that threat.

You can't be serious. They are helping a terrorist organization, and at the same time they warn Russia not to take action????? Really?????

Irelandcool · 24-11-2015 05:29PM

After how crazy the world has become I wish I could just build a fallout shelter because things are just getting more and more intense. This jet being shot down is just further icing on the the already tipping iceberg.

Both countries have leaders with huge egos which could just explode this entire situation.

Yakkyda · 24-11-2015 05:29PM

I'd prefer to wait and see if any concrete facts emerge from either party(highly unlikely tbh) or maybe independent analysis (virtually impossible I'd imagine) than be laying definitive blame. Not one of use here are military aviation experts, all we know about this sphere is stuff gathered from the Internet. That's also hardly likely to be 100% accurate either. It was interesting to begin with not anymore and I think I'll check out the politics cafe or military forums and see what the craic Is there. I'd imagine it's a better debate on this topic. Same fcukin posters going back and forth with the same arguments, not getting anywhere. After hours used to be fun, all the threads in it these days seem to descend into this sort of sh!te.

Good luck to yis...

Jelle1880 · 24-11-2015 05:29PM

Wizard! wrote: »

You can't be serious. They are helping a terrorist organization, and at the same time they warn Russia not to take action????? Really?????

That's not my point and you know it.

As soon as it became clear that you couldn't back up your claims about the plane being shot down over Syria you decided to focus on the ****ty stuff Turkey does with regards to ISIS. It's crystal clear what you're trying.

edit: They didn't warn Russia not to attack ISIS, they warned them to stay the fcuk out of their airspace. And rightly so.

Yakkyda wrote: »

I'd prefer to wait and see if any concrete facts emerge from either party(highly unlikely tbh) or maybe independent analysis (virtually impossible I'd imagine) than be laying definitive blame. Not one of use here are military aviation experts, all we know about this sphere is stuff gathered from the Internet. That's also hardly likely to be 100% accurate either. It was interesting to begin with not anymore and I think I'll check out the politics cafe or military forums and see what the craic Is there. I'd imagine it's a better debate on this topic. Same fcukin posters going back and forth with the same arguments, not getting anywhere. After hours used to be fun, all the threads in it these days seem to descend into this sort of sh!te.

Good luck to yis...

Where's the fun in that ?

whatawaster81 · 24-11-2015 05:31PM

And Merkel can't wait to fast track Turkey into the EU, idiotic!

Wizard! · 24-11-2015 05:33PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That's not my point and you know it.

As soon as it became clear that you couldn't back up your claims about the plane being shot down over Syria you decided to focus on the ****ty stuff Turkey does with regards to ISIS. It's crystal clear what you're trying.

I provided PROOF of what I am saying, you provided assumptions. If my proof is no good for you, this is your issue to resolve, not mine. If you cannot understand what is going on here, and what are the real facts behind this story, also is your problem, not mine.

Jelle1880 · 24-11-2015 05:35PM

Wizard! wrote: »

I provided PROOF of what I am saying, you provided assumptions. If my proof is no good for you, this is your issue to resolve, not mine. If you cannot understand what is going on here, and what are the real facts behind this story, also is your problem, not mine.

What proof ? You just quoted a picture that doesn't prove anything, as shown by other posters asking questions about what exactly it shows.

The rest of what you post is just assumptions about Turkish policy, without much proof either way.
Is Turkey backing ISIS ? In one way probably. Does that mean they are shooting Russians out of the sky because Russia is bombing ISIS ? Maybe, but nobody knows that, so it's silly to claim you do. So until that is certain all we have is this incident, which is likely unrelated to anything you posted about ISIS and Turkey.

keithclancy · 24-11-2015 05:36PM

Wizard! wrote: »

Picture shows that Russian Su went over Turkey territory, but at the same time proves that Turks lie. For everyone that has the basic knowledge of fighting jets, this is less than a few seconds over Turkey. How did the warn 10 times (!!) in just few seconds? How did they lock on the SU in few secs? When was the missile fired? There is NO WAY to prove their saying.

Just a few seconds. Everything else is a lie or excuse. As said before, hiding behind NATOs skirt.

Count the dots from right to left on the Radar Image ... there's 10 of them in a line (radar sweeps) up right until the border line.

Jayop · 24-11-2015 05:36PM

Ah lads will you both put a sock in it. It's repetitive, tedious and neither of you are going to convince the other that they're in the right or in the wrong.

Jayop · 24-11-2015 05:38PM

keithclancy wrote: »

Count the dots from right to left on the Radar Image ... there's 10 of them in a line (radar sweeps) up right until the border line.

By my math it would have been in Turkey for 30 seconds each time it entered it if it was cruising at normal speed.

Eugene Norman · 24-11-2015 05:39PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

This is all getting very worrying. When did Russia imagine it could fight a war on 3 fronts. Ukraine, Syria, and possibly now Turkey. What's the game what's the benefit none. Problem with Turkey and Russia they both have lads that need to look strong at home. Russians pushed to far Turkey had to Respond.

It's pretty much out of the Ukraine, it has as much right as anybody else to counteract Islamists in Syria, and turkey is responsible here.

Eugene Norman · 24-11-2015 05:40PM

Jayop wrote: »

By my math it would have been in Turkey for 30 seconds each time it entered it if it was cruising at normal speed.

17 seconds according to Turkey itself.

https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/669188253279473664

(Note. Via wiki leaks. May be suspect. Dunno)

steddyeddy · 24-11-2015 05:40PM

No offence but hardline Russian nationalists are more or less brain washed by the personality cult that is Putin. If Putin told people the sky is purple they'd believe it.

Wizard! · 24-11-2015 05:43PM

17 seconds, for 10 warnings, engaging maneuver, lock and fire?
Not even in video games... :rolleyes:

Jayop · 24-11-2015 05:44PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

17 seconds according to Turkey itself.

https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/669188253279473664

(Note. Via wiki leaks. May be suspect. Dunno)

So 17 seconds 10 times over 5 minutes. They spent a total of 3 minutes and 10 seconds in Turkish airspace. Plenty of time to hail them numerous times.

That plane must have only been travelling at around 200mph to take 17 seconds for just over a mile. Pretty slow.

whisky_galore · 24-11-2015 05:44PM

Neither Arab nor Western nations seem to be able to get their sh!t together against ISIS on a united front.

If Arab nations won't row in, it'll be just seen as yet another 'crusade', albeit mainly a Playstation drone crusade.

Jayop · 24-11-2015 05:44PM

Wizard! wrote: »

17 seconds, for 10 warnings, engaging maneuver, lock and fire?
Not even in video games... :rolleyes:

17 seconds, 10 times, over 5 minutes.

Jelle1880 · 24-11-2015 05:46PM

Wizard! wrote: »

17 seconds, for 10 warnings, engaging maneuver, lock and fire?
Not even in video games... :rolleyes:

These warnings do not only happen once a plane crosses into another countrie's airspace.

As soon as air control sees an unknown plane moving towards the border it starts sending out requests to identify, if there is no indication of the plane changing course.

Wizard! · 24-11-2015 05:47PM

Jayop wrote: »

17 seconds, 10 times, over 5 minutes.

Warnings while they were over Syrian airspace? :rolleyes:

BoJack Horseman · 24-11-2015 05:47PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

17 seconds according to Turkey itself.

https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/669188253279473664

(Note. Via wiki leaks. May be suspect. Dunno)

Looks good.... but I always find a statement including imperial measurement jarring.... but who knows?

Interesting that it was a 2 plane sortie and that one of them complied.

Jayop · 24-11-2015 05:47PM

Wizard! wrote: »

Warnings while they were over Syrian airspace? :rolleyes:

During that 5 minutes they spent 180 seconds in Turkish Airspace.

Eugene Norman · 24-11-2015 05:48PM

Wizard! wrote: »

17 seconds, for 10 warnings, engaging maneuver, lock and fire?
Not even in video games... :rolleyes:

The Turks say they were warned coming into Turkish territory for 5 minutes (if wiki leaks is to be believed). It's also only a Turkish map that shows that the Russians entered their space at all. The Russians probably ignore turkeys warnings close to their border because it's Syria, not Turkey.

Frankly we don't even know if the Russians did violate Turkish airspace, they clearly were getting too close for comfort.

Jelle1880 · 24-11-2015 05:48PM

Wizard! wrote: »

Warnings while they were over Syrian airspace? :rolleyes:

That's how these things work. Airspace is treated differently from for example a physical border on the ground.

BoJack Horseman · 24-11-2015 05:49PM

Jayop wrote: »

That plane must have only been travelling at around 200mph to take 17 seconds for just over a mile. Pretty slow.

The SU-24 has a stall speed of 150mph.... and if it was in a ground support/bombing sortie, it would have been going slowly (I assume to maximise the likelihood of a successful hit

Wizard! · 24-11-2015 05:51PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That's how these things work. Airspace is treated differently from for example a physical border on the ground.

My uncle was a F-4 pilot in Air Force, my brother served in Air Radar Warning division, but you know better how things work.

spurious · 24-11-2015 05:53PM

The Sun King wrote: »

Saw a video on twitter of a pilot coming under fairly heavy fire as he was coming down to land. Don't know who was firing but there must have been 15 of them.

I know it's war and all that, and far more horrible things have happened in the world in the last couple of weeks, but I thought that was really scummy. Talk about shooting fish in a barrel. I suppose the only plus is the pilots were not alive for them to torture them on landing.

Gatling · 24-11-2015 05:54PM

Wizard! wrote: »

My uncle was a F-4 pilot in Air Force, my brother served in Air Radar Warning division, but you know better how things work.

Now come on anyone can come onto a forum and make a claim like that

Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

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