Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

Jelle1880 wrote: »

No it didn't.

That would be a top speed, the plane that was shot down was a fighter bomber which was doing bombing manoeuvres, they don't go at top speed in that scenario.

So it was probably longer than 'a few seconds at most'.



Would that be the memorandum you were talking about earlier which was supposedly signed a few years back ?
The one that Russia repeatedly broke by having previous planes enter Turkish airspace and even a drone ?

That one ?

Also, see above. A fighter bomber following bombing manoeuvres isn't going at top speed, it would have been in Turkish airspace for longer than 'a matter of seconds'.

No its the one they signed on the twentieth of October of this year. Essentially saying ground to ground communication would happen before jets engage with one another!!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/20/us-mideast-crisis-russia-usa-idUSKCN0SE2HK20151020

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You're deliberately trying to shift attention towards Turkey helping ISIS because you know you're wrong.

Hell, even people in this thread saying Turkey is at fault are trying to prove that by showing a picture that literally proves the plane was in Turkish air space.

You're the one saying it was shot down over Syria, which means it's on you to prove that.

Look at the flight path(provided by the turks) I posted above, It was most definitely shot down inside Syria.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You're the one saying it was shot down over Syria, which means it's on you to prove that.:

I think there is confusion over the radar image...

Is the Green box, the point of impact, or the point of crash?

If a weapon fired from within Turkey into Syria, then there are obviously questions to answer....
However if the weapon was both fired & impacted while in Turkey, then Turkey seems less guilty.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Look at the flight path(provided by the turks) I posted above, It was most definitely shot down inside Syria.

Perhaps the impact happened over Turkey?

With such a small piece of land and such a large distance an impacted plane could travel, 'shot down' is a bit of a vague term.

Saw a video on twitter of a pilot coming under fairly heavy fire as he was coming down to land. Don't know who was firing but there must have been 15 of them.

The Sun King wrote: »

Saw a video on twitter of a pilot coming under fairly heavy fire as he was coming down to land. Don't know who was firing but there must have been 15 of them.

Turkmen militia apparently.

Wizard! wrote: »

Picture shows that Russian Su went over Turkey territory, but at the same time proves that Turks lie. For everyone that has the basic knowledge of fighting jets, this is less than a few seconds over Turkey. How did the warn 10 times (!!) in just few seconds? How did they lock on the SU in few secs? When was the missile fired? There is NO WAY to prove their saying.


Just a few seconds. Everything else is a lie or excuse. As said before, hiding behind NATOs skirt.

You keep saying it is only a few seconds, while it clearly proves it entered Turkish airspace twice and you are acting as if it flew at top speed all the time (which never happens if it's carrying out manoeuvres, which seems to be the case in here). Do you think that incidents like this happen with some guy staring at a screen, waiting for that little green dot to enter the line so he can fire ? Multiple warnings were given to the plane, 10 according to most sources. If you maintain radio silence almost every country will see that as hostility.

You are also constantly saying Turkey can't prove their version, but you're the one making accusations which you're not backing up.

EDIT: You clearly don't understand how this works. Do you genuinely think that the Turks warned them in the space of 10 seconds or so ? Warnings like this are given a long time before a plane enters the airspace, if the people manning the controls don't see any change in course. So 10 warnings in a space of 5 minutes (as the Turks claim) is perfectly possible.

Wizard! wrote: »

Turks killed them, into Syrian ground.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russian-pilot-search-jet-shot-down-turkey-rebels-turkmen-syria-border-putin-assad-a6746436.html

Turkmen aren't Turks. They're Syrians of Turkish descent, many of whom are fighting ISIS.
Still a war crime of course, but that doesn't seem to count for much in this conflict...

Jayop wrote: »

And it has travelled some distance after being shot.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUlqlyHVAAAvv88.jpg:large

Yes, this is important.... it obviously was not a direct hit so the plane limped on for a while...

My interpretation of the radar image is that impact was within Turkey and it limped onto the 'Green box' area where it crashed.
(open to correction though).

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You are right.... more information is needed.

Some may be forthcoming, some may not.

- Linger/Loiter time of the SU-24 in Turkey will be needed.
- The times the warnings were issued & the relative position of the SU-24 when the warnings were issued.
- The point when weapons release occured & time to impact.... again relative to where the Russian plane was.

I think its also possible to tell when another aircraft has its weapons radar locked on to your own aircraft which is usually a major warning. The russians should have turned back towards Syria instantly then.

InTheTrees wrote: »

I think its also possible to tell when another aircraft has its weapons radar locked on to your own aircraft which is usually a major warning. The russians should have turned back towards Syria instantly then.

Usually a loud tone and or flashing lights and usually there radar will tell them on a screen where the lock on and missle launch came from

InTheTrees wrote: »

I think its also possible to tell when another aircraft has its weapons radar locked on to your own aircraft which is usually a major warning. The russians should have turned back towards Syria instantly then.

Maybe...

I'm not sure if the Russian plane would know if its being locked by the F16 before weapons release.

Depending on the missile used, some use semi-active radar guidance so to make it harder for the target to know they are tracked.

I wonder if there was a way for the turkish jets to alert the Russian that they had a lock on without actually firing?

Since it is written in Greek, I will translate:

However, Russian President Vladimir Putin condemns without ever naming the states participating in the conference sponsoring the IK / Daesh. He showed his colleagues satellite photos transmitters tankers crossing the Turkey to sell the oil that was stolen by the terrorist organization in Iraq and Syria. [1] Blamed publicly for violations of Security Council resolutions on financing of IK / Daesh, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan accepted the batter. According to the Turkish Socialist Party, Bilal Erdogan (son of President) manages personally this movement [2].
The presidents Putin and Obama agreed to destroy these tankers family Erdogan and put it an end to illegal circulation of oil. On the same day, the US Central Command bombed tanker trucks in Iraq for the first time in 18 months, while the Russian army destroyed a large number of such tankers in Syria [3].

source: http://www.voltairenet.org/article189384.html

You see now how it adds up with ISIS and why Turks downed the plane?
Nothing to do with air violations.