Turkey shoots down Russian fighter plane

seamus wrote: »

I'm sure there are very specific rules about the correct way to do this. One key point seems to be the Russian aircraft's refusal to identify itself or respond to the Turks.

It probably doesn't matter that the aircraft appears to be on the way out of your airspace. If it is refusing to identify itself despite repeated warnings and is known to be armed, then you're probably entitled to treat it as hostile and take action.

The Russian pilots on the flipside are probably instructed to not respond to anyone contacting them but just leave the airspace. If they respond or otherwise acknowledge their incursion, that could be a diplomatic issue.

In hindsight though it's probably better than dying.

Would the fact that it is a Russian SU-24 and the red star on the tail not have given a hint of the identity of the aircraft? Just asking like :o

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Would the fact that it is a Russian SU-24 and the red star on the tail not have given a hint of the identity of the aircraft?

The naked eye can be a tricky think from 20-odd kms away

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The naked eye can be a tricky think from 20-odd kms away

At 600 -800 mph too .

He's got missles and guns you have missles and guns .
Quickest to draw usually wins

Russia are saying that they were NOT in Turkish airspace but in Syrian and have proof to validate this

I think of all the players in this crisis the Turks are the most duplicitous.
We all know they trade with , allow the follow of and support ISIS ...especially to help fight the Kurds while purporting to fight ISIS

I would have sanctions against the Turkey for the whole ISIS issue

But given the amount of jets bombing in Syrian I wonder this does not happen more

MPFGLB wrote: »

Russia are saying that they were NOT in Turkish airspace but in Syrian and have proof to validate this

Except they said they had proof the Ukrainian airforce shot down flight MH17 over Ukraine.


We're still waiting for them to produce it

StudentDad wrote: »

At no point did I say that the Turks are blameless as regards the mess in Syria. You're probably right in your assertion that they're partly responsible for the chaos next door. However, they are entitled to defend their airspace and it would appear that they gave the Russian aircraft fair warning. If the Russians chose to ignore those warnings well the Turks were within their rights to act accordingly.

SD

There is no probably to it.
The Turks helped start the whole thing by backing rebels in Syria.
They openly host the Syrian political opposition and leaders of the Free Syrian Army.

And how the hell have ISIS managed to get stuff like refinery equipment if not through Turkey.
Also how did all those foreign fighters get in and out of ISIS controlled territory ?

Erdogan would love to get into Syria, but NATO allies like US and UK don't have the stomach for another Afghanistan.
There is also fact that Syria's allies Russia, China and Iran might just start backing the PKK and Kurdish separatists could kick off again.

Then there are the econimic threats to Turkey.
They are second largest consumer of Russian gas and that is where they get most of their oil.
They have huge trade with each other.
Then if the Kurdish separatists were to kick off again it would jeopardise Turkey's important tourist industry.

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm confused(no shock there), but looking at the flight path and map the aircraft would have been in Turkish airspace for a matter of minutes, so how could they have warned them "10 times over a period of 5 minutes" and where was it actually engaged and shot down?

Warnings are given when an aircraft comes close to breaching your airspace.

The Russians for example are fond of flying their bear bombers along the coast of Scotland (just outside the border) before being escorted away by British jets.

"Warning, you are close to our airspace and in danger of breaching it. Breach it and you will be fired upon".
If "near" becomes "in" after such a warning, then yeah, you deserve to get shot down.

gandalf wrote: »

But they aren't just bombing IS are they, they are bombing all the opponents of the Assad regime.

It is rather simplistic to make it look like they are exclusively targeting IS.

Does Turkey bomb ISIS much? Afair they mostly bomb the Kurds.

Nodin wrote: »

True, but considering they were bombing IS you'd expect them to be given some leeway.

They were bombing Turkish allied rebels earlier in the week, and many would argue that Turkey is passively supporting IS. Russian planes have also had much more severe incursions than this one. There's no love lost there.

gandalf wrote: »

It is rather simplistic to make it look like they are exclusively targeting IS.

They occasionally engage ISIS, when it's expedient to do so....

Apart from that its just a campaign of dumb-bombing population centers.

3 days ago the southern city of Daraa took a heavy blow from Russia's unguided airstrikes....
The results are here (viewer discretion etc)

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

They occasionally engage ISIS, when it's expedient to do so....

Apart from that its just a campaign of dumb-bombing population centers.

3 days ago the southern city of Daraa took a heavy blow from Russia's unguided airstrikes....
The results are here (viewer discretion etc)

TBH they have upped their game since ISIS blew a Russian Airliner out of the sky....

Why did the Russians fly into Turkish airspace? Is their equipment so bad that they don't know where they are? Or they are trying to provoke the Turks? It's one or the other.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Nine seconds in turkish airspace according to one graph based on the speed of the jet and flight path. Turkey obviously pre planned this, they need to defend their brother Islamists.

They warned them already, how many second/minutes are ok by the way?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/05/turkey-says-russian-warplane-violated-airspace

“What we have received from Russia this morning is [an admission] that this was a mistake and that they respect Turkey’s borders and this will not happen again,” Davutoğlu was quoted as saying by local media. “Necessary steps would be taken against whoever violates Turkey’s borders.”

The US secretary of state, John Kerry, warned that the incident could have led to Turkey shooting down the Russian plane.