Why should a man offer a seat to a woman on train/bus?

jackofalltrades · 22-11-2015 05:55AM

I'd offer up my seat to someone who's struggling to stand.
This usually means the elderly and women who I'm 150% sure are pregnant.
And no I don't offer up my seat to 'ladies'.

zeffabelli wrote: »

ANd I am a woman, who parents alone and has to teach my son how to be a man. He is too young for giving up seats...but he is not too young to learn that you let the ladies out first in the elevator....and I end up by accomplice being a courteous man.

What good reason is there for doing this?

Naos wrote: »

Women just tend to be better at those things though, can't you see that?

Based on what exactly?

Go run a few marathon, then stand on a bus for an hour. Ask me does physical strength or capability come into it then.

You're not asking much.

shootermacg wrote: »

Sure there are exceptions, but in general I think you'll find that women are "in general" better communicators better teachers and more tolerant of kids than men.

You either need to put an IMO at the start of this or start providing a load of links to back this up with.

Naos · 22-11-2015 11:55AM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

What good reason is there for doing this?

Basic respect. If both man & woman go to leave at the same time, someone has to stop to allow the other to move out. Men are generally bigger so it'd most likely seem like they are being physically domineering if they are not the ones to stop.

Based on what exactly?

Because for thousands and thousands of years that was the role women played in society.

You either need to put an IMO at the start of this or start providing a load of links to back this up with.

Why does he? Bring a baby around to a group of men & women ranging all ages. The women of the group are a lot more likely to coo and ah over the baby than the guys, more likely to want to hold the baby etc. You're just trying to be outraged.

Annasopra · 22-11-2015 12:00PM

La Fenetre wrote: »

Sounds a bit like a robot

More like a helpful person who doesn't see people as weak solely based on their gender

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 22-11-2015 12:09PM

One day at the train station the train dropped us off on the far platform. I got off and there was an old man with a large hold all bag. He didn't look incapable, he was just old. He walked towards the bridge, and I offered to take the bag to the other side of the bridge. He gave me the bag, and was delighted I offered. His daughter was waiting for him inside the train station, and I gave her the bag.

He wasn't insulted, or annoyed that a 5'3 girl considered herself stronger than an adult male. Point is, don't be a dick. If you see someone that you think might need a little help, ask. At worst, they'll bite your head off, and if they do, so what? At least you tried and it says more about them.

Honestly the more I see of the world the more it seems to be every man for himself

sonny.knowles · 22-11-2015 12:11PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Honestly the more I see of the world the more it seems to be every man for himself

Every person for themselves. No need for sexism in this thread.

Pawwed Rig · 22-11-2015 12:20PM

shootermacg wrote: »

Sure there are exceptions, but in general I think you'll find that women are "in general" better communicators better teachers and more tolerant of kids than men.

I can't believe attitudes like this actually exist. No wonder Fathers get such a bad deal in this country.
Sad part is that this person most likely does not realise how sexist they are.

Squatter · 22-11-2015 12:24PM

Last year heading into town from Chapelizod I stopped and entered a rather full 66 bus. I was happily standing in the lower deck with some other passengers, when a young lady stood up and offered me her seat. Assuming that she was about to dismount at the next stop, I thanked her and sat down. But she then stood beside me for the remainder of the journey into town! When we both exited I thanked her again. I am still completely baffled as to why she did it! I am a male, aged 58, somewhat plump but reasonably healthy. Any theories?

b_mac2 · 22-11-2015 12:24PM

shootermacg wrote: »

No, not at all.

I'm saying when **** gets real I'm the one that will take care of business. Because when **** gets real real, your woman's rights are the first thing that goes out the window and you get an unwelcome taste of reality, becaue all guys are aware that in any "real" situation might is right. Welcome to the real world and may the odds be forever in your favor! **** off to Iran if you want to stand on your own two feet "balls to the wall" LMAO!

Hope you know that everyone here is laughing at you.

timthumbni · 22-11-2015 12:31PM

I would give up my seat to anyone on a bus if I thought they were struggling a bit. Any age, any gender. You can normally tell them a mile away. A bit of good manners goes a long way.

I also still hold the door open for a lady or in fact any man if they are are any less than 7 seconds away. Probably unusual nowadays but it costs me nothing and the genuine thanks and conversations I get the odd time pays me back in spades. Normally some older biddy exclaiming "so a gentleman still exists"

That makes my day and hopefully makes theirs a wee bit also.

ThinkProgress · 22-11-2015 12:32PM

katydid wrote: »

Where does physical capability come in to standing in a bus? It's not exactly something that requires physical strength. We women are not wilting little flowers.

Nobody is saying you're wilting flowers.

Sometimes things are done as part of a wider symbolic act... Designed to create a nicer world for us to co-exist in.

Just like, for example, when I offer my hand to help a guy off the ground during a sports match... He might not need help getting to his feet, but its just a decent thing to do and creates a better atmosphere between people.

I think some people are being deliberately obtuse in this discussion, by making it just about a seat...

Many of you side-stepped an excellent earlier point about "what if we treated women like they're weaker men?"... A fantastic point, very sussinctly made!

Women are NOT weaker men, and I would hate to live in a world where we viewed them that way.

That's the direction some people are trying to push us. (Wether they realise it or not)

zeffabelli · 22-11-2015 12:33PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I'd offer up my seat to someone who's struggling to stand.
This usually means the elderly and women who I'm 150% sure are pregnant.
And no I don't offer up my seat to 'ladies'.

What good reason is there for doing this?

Based on what exactly?

You're not asking much.

You either need to put an IMO at the start of this or start providing a load of links to back this up with.

The reason for this us the same for not wearing a brown leather belt with black shoes, for showing up for dates with your hair combed and your shirt ironed, answering emails promptly, thank you notes, returning phone calls, showing you care.

Respect. You transmit what you expect.

Hanging on to the remnants of dignity here.

timthumbni · 22-11-2015 12:36PM

Squatter wrote: »

Last year heading into town from Chapelizod I stopped and entered a rather full 66 bus. I was happily standing in the lower deck with some other passengers, when a young lady stood up and offered me her seat. Assuming that she was about to dismount at the next stop, I thanked her and sat down. But she then stood beside me for the remainder of the journey into town! When we both exited I thanked her again. I am still completely baffled as to why she did it! I am a male, aged 58, somewhat plump but reasonably healthy. Any theories?

When someone refers themselves as "somewhat plump" then that would normally mean they are quite to very much overweight. Maybe the young lady just thought that a portly type needed a seat more than her. I'm starting a diet myself tomorrow. Looking forward to my Sunday Chinese blowout before that. Lol.

Naos · 22-11-2015 12:42PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I can't believe attitudes like this actually exist. No wonder Fathers get such a bad deal in this country.
Sad part is that this person most likely does not realise how sexist they are.

So are you saying that men and women, in general, communicate their feelings equally?

Pawwed Rig · 22-11-2015 12:45PM

Naos wrote: »

So are you saying that men and women, in general, communicate their feelings equally?

Read the post again. I did not say anything like that

Naos · 22-11-2015 12:49PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Read the post again. I did not say anything like that

Poster stated that women are better communicators than men (one part of their statement) and you said you cannot believe that attitude exists. The only reason I can imagine you state you cannot believe that attitude exists is because you disagree with it.

Jen Pigs Fly · 22-11-2015 01:07PM

I'm young but have a hidden illness, rarely in the mornings have I got a seat on the train From Maynooth to pearse. Some days I'm fine and standing is ok, others I'm dying from the inside and just feel like falling to the ground in a heap with pain. In those situations I would have given my left arm for someone to offer me a seat but it never happens, everyone just sitting there with ear phones in ignoring everyone around me. I've often sat on the floor in the aisles pale as a ghost and sweating and shaking from pain and still never got a seat offered once. I'm obviously missing those nice posters on here

One moment that really sticks out was I was having a very bad episode, I need an operation to fix a broken valve in my stomach - causes acid to run around my oesphagus and severe acid reflux, feels like death, sitting on the floor almost crying with pain. An older lady noticed and offered me her seat which I gladly took explaining briefly that I'm very unwell.
next stop 2 mins later a pregnant lady comes on, I offered her my seat which she gladly took and I sat back on the floor again. (Difficult when the train is packed I run the risk of being stood on a lot :pac:) I gave her my seat as I knew that my illness does pass after a while so I'll be fine in 10/15 minutes but I don't know if she's having a bad pregnancy, having twins, may have been up all night with morning sickness etc so she needed it more than me.

This train the 6.57am Maynoot train is home to the biggest pack of ignorant people I have ever met. I've often see people on crutches, pregnant women, people in casts, people like myself pale as a ghost hanging on to stop collapsing all standing while perfectly healthy "suits" having their high flying calls and on their laptops completely ignore these people.

Every time the train stops at a stop I look around to see who came on, who knows who needs my seat more than I do. I will offer my seat to anyone who may need it, be it a pregnant woman, a man on crutches, an elderly person who may be struggling a bit (especially on a packed train).

Did embarrass a suit once, there was a seat free which I was just about to sit down in and he ploughed in front of me rudely and grabbed the seat. This morning was a bad morning I was up vomiting acid all night and felt like death. So I sat down right beside him on the floor (leaning against the seat) which he kinda sniffed at as if to go "plebs sitting on the floor". I made eye contact and said "well you obviously need that seat more than me." Then a friend who was on the bus called me and I made sure to tell her all about how unwell I was all night and that how I hoped surgery will fix everything and it's great that people are so polite, etc (I was in a foul mood! No excuse I know!) a young suit guy gave me his seat then which I thanked loads, he said he saw what the other guy did when I was about to sit down and felt bad that people can be so rude.

Suit guy just put in his ear phones but he definitely avoided eye contact with people from then on.

I've so many stories!

La Fenetre · 22-11-2015 01:31PM

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I'm young but have a hidden illness, rarely in the mornings have I got a seat on the train From Maynooth to pearse. Some days I'm fine and standing is ok, others I'm dying from the inside and just feel like falling to the ground in a heap with pain. In those situations I would have given my left arm for someone to offer me a seat but it never happens, everyone just sitting there with ear phones in ignoring everyone around me. I've often sat on the floor in the aisles pale as a ghost and sweating and shaking from pain and still never got a seat offered once. I'm obviously missing those nice posters on here

One moment that really sticks out was I was having a very bad episode, I need an operation to fix a broken valve in my stomach - causes acid to run around my oesphagus and severe acid reflux, feels like death, sitting on the floor almost crying with pain. An older lady noticed and offered me her seat which I gladly took explaining briefly that I'm very unwell.
next stop 2 mins later a pregnant lady comes on, I offered her my seat which she gladly took and I sat back on the floor again. (Difficult when the train is packed I run the risk of being stood on a lot :pac:) I gave her my seat as I knew that my illness does pass after a while so I'll be fine in 10/15 minutes but I don't know if she's having a bad pregnancy, having twins, may have been up all night with morning sickness etc so she needed it more than me.

This train the 6.57am Maynoot train is home to the biggest pack of ignorant people I have ever met. I've often see people on crutches, pregnant women, people in casts, people like myself pale as a ghost hanging on to stop collapsing all standing while perfectly healthy "suits" having their high flying calls and on their laptops completely ignore these people.

Every time the train stops at a stop I look around to see who came on, who knows who needs my seat more than I do. I will offer my seat to anyone who may need it, be it a pregnant woman, a man on crutches, an elderly person who may be struggling a bit (especially on a packed train).

Did embarrass a suit once, there was a seat free which I was just about to sit down in and he ploughed in front of me rudely and grabbed the seat. This morning was a bad morning I was up vomiting acid all night and felt like death. So I sat down right beside him on the floor (leaning against the seat) which he kinda sniffed at as if to go "plebs sitting on the floor". I made eye contact and said "well you obviously need that seat more than me." Then a friend who was on the bus called me and I made sure to tell her all about how unwell I was all night and that how I hoped surgery will fix everything and it's great that people are so polite, etc (I was in a foul mood! No excuse I know!) a young suit guy gave me his seat then which I thanked loads, he said he saw what the other guy did when I was about to sit down and felt bad that people can be so rude.

Suit guy just put in his ear phones but he definitely avoided eye contact with people from then on.

I've so many stories!

What do you think of the mantra on here that it's patronising and sexist to dare offer your seat to someone else ?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 22-11-2015 01:32PM

But how do you know those "suits" don't also have hidden illnesses?
I would assume that a train at 7am would be bringing most people to work and anyone in that state would be at home in bed and not on their way to work.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be going to work but I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to make that a young lady on her way to work is in reasonable health.

I mentioned earlier on the thread I have sciatica occasionally and to look at me, I look fine, but on rare occasions I wouldn't be able to give up my seat because my legs wouldn't be strong enough to keep me up for over an hour. I'm sure to others who need a seat, I look like a selfish cow, but it is what it is. You've no idea what's going on for other people.

NachoBusiness · 22-11-2015 01:39PM

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Every time the train stops at a stop I look around to see who came on, who knows who needs my seat more than I do. I will offer my seat to anyone who may need it, be it a pregnant woman, a man on crutches, an elderly person who may be struggling a bit (especially on a packed train).

You need to stop doing that. You have your own illness to contend with. I know you might see a person and feel that they need your seat more than you do, and you could very well be right, but I highly doubt there wouldn't be many other people around you on such occasions that need their seat far less than you need yours. Let the onus be on those people to vacate their seats for those more deserving of them. They might not do it but that's not really your problem. Seriously. I used to be like that, exhausting myself for others, caring if strangers think I'm not as ill as am just cause I may not look it. The only thing that attitude will do is prolong your illness and make your life even harder than it already is. First and foremost, you need to look after your own health. Life is too short, and the consequences too great, not to.

One eyed Jack · 22-11-2015 01:45PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I can't believe attitudes like this actually exist. No wonder Fathers get such a bad deal in this country.
Sad part is that this person most likely does not realise how sexist they are.

If you actually believe that it's "no wonder" "fathers get such a bad deal in this country", then surely you must already be aware that attitudes like that "still exist"?

I don't agree at all that fathers do get any bad deal in this country by virtue of the fact that they are fathers, or because they are men. I've already admitted I'm sexist, and I have no issue with what that poster said, and I think as a father and as a man, I'm on the fcuking pigs back really! :pac:

Your statement is far more nuanced than "fathers get a bad deal in this country", and it has nothing to do with sexism, it has to do with personal circumstances and context, nothing to do with gender.

There are many ways in which people experience difficulty in their lives, and look at us with a thread here going back and forth about bus etiquette ffs!

I completely agree with Azalea that it's a good thing to let men know that they don't have to do these things for women, and that women are as capable as men in their ability to stand for what's usually a half an hour commute twice a day (they can manage it in Tokyo handy enough, no quarrels about seating etiquette there! :pac:), but y'know there are some men, like myself, who want to do these things for women, and not just because they want to get into her knickers, or they're "whiite knighting" or they're "virtue signalling" or any of the rest of that shyte that gets bandied about in these threads so often.

I just don't understand why some people need to read so much into what for most people is simply a consideration for other people besides themselves, that they understand that human beings are social animals, and that if they can make someone's day that bit easier, they do it because they want to, not because they have to, and it has nothing to do with any gender wars crap or any 'ideology' being 'imposed' on them.

I've always done it, and it's only in recent years the whole internet identity politics has come to prominence, and as zeffabelli said earlier, it really is like a race to claim tbe victimhood trophy. It's a horrible way to be IMO, and it's a horrible way to treat other people, and I hope it remains on the fringes of society where it belongs. There are far too many good people in the world that should never be made to feel like they're doing something wrong by trying to do something nice for another person.

Horrible, hurtful, ideology based bollocks. I would never instil such a negative perspective of the world in my son. I have to laugh sometimes because I was left wanting for an answer when I suggested to two other posters that instead of taking my son on my lap, I would get up and offer them my seat and they could sit in beside my son...

Apparently it's I who am missing the point here and making my life difficult?

Riiiiiight...

whatismyname · 22-11-2015 01:49PM

La Fenetre wrote: »

What do you think of the mantra on here that it's patronising and sexist to dare offer your seat to someone else ?

I hadn't picked up on it like that. More that it can be patronising and sexist to offer seat purely because the other person is female?

So not quite same thing, and of course, very different from situation the poster you're responding to is describing

Figbiscuithead · 22-11-2015 01:51PM

La Fenetre wrote: »

What do you think of the mantra on here that it's patronising and sexist to dare offer your seat to someone else ?

Eh...there's a little more to what people are saying than that! Come on now!

Jenny, when I was younger and lived in Ireland and got the Dundalk - Dublin train in the mornings, I'd sometimes feel very faint because of the heat and probably dodgy iron levels (though I didn't consider that at the time). Nothing as serious as you, obviously, but I'd be on the point of collapsing. If I felt like that, I'd simply ask someone politely if I could sit down for a few minutes as I was feeling terrible. Obviously if you're clearly very sick and someone sees you in that state, they SHOULD offer you a seat but sometimes you have to make it known. People were always very obliging when I asked them - I don't believe most people are so ignorant - perhaps they don't always cop on to how sick you are?

Edit: this goes for anyone who has a "hidden illness". You've ever right to ask could you sit down for a sec.

bee06 · 22-11-2015 01:58PM

These threads make depressing reading every time. A woman should never expect a man to offer her a seat just because she's a woman, I certainly don't. However if a man does then why does it have to be some big statement about women being the weaker sex. I've very rarely been offered a seat by a man. When I have it's usually a middle aged man and I turn it down with a smile and a thank you and think it was a nice thought.

As for holding doors open, I hold doors open for everyone. It doesn't mean anything other than it's nice not to leave a door shut in someone's face. If a man holds a door open for me I don't assume he does it because he thinks I'm too weak to open the door myself (even though sometimes I am). I always say thanks but most people have moved on and may not hear it.

nullzero · 22-11-2015 01:58PM

I'm not a frequent user of public transport but recently I was on a tram with my heavily pregnant wife around lunch time, seats were all taken after we got on, but not rush hour standing crush levels of busy. She was sitting as I stood next to her, she observed a visibly frail elderly woman get on the tram and not one of the young able bodied people sitting down would even look at her. She was struggling to stand up as the tram moved, so my wife offered the woman her seat and we helped her over to it. My wife stood for the remainder of the journey with scores of selfish gits looking intently at their phones as to not have to do the decent thing and give up their own precious comfort.

Figbiscuithead · 22-11-2015 01:59PM

bee06 wrote: »

These threads make depressing reading every time. A woman should never expect a man to offer her a seat just because she's a woman, I certainly don't. However if a man does then why does it have to be some big statement about women being the weaker sex. I've very rarely been offered a seat by a man. When I have it's usually a middle aged man and I turn it down with a smile and a thank you and think it was a nice thought.

As for holding doors open, I hold doors open for everyone. It doesn't mean anything other than it's nice not to leave a door shut in someone's face. If a man holds a door open for me I don't assume he does it because he thinks I'm too weak to open the door myself (even though sometimes I am). I always say thanks but most people have moved on and may not hear it.

I think most people on the thread agree with you from what I've read. Only a few have made this into yet another tedious, exaggerated gender war.

NachoBusiness · 22-11-2015 02:00PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Ask your one in the maroon pants where she got her jumper, I love the colour

Candie wrote: »

It's from Dunnes, about a year ago. My gran sent me one in the same colour for last Christmas, but it has a zip up the back of the neck, which I hate, and it didn't wash well. I'll wear it when I see her at Christmas though.

The pair of you got me in a lot of trouble yesterday, just wanted to let you know.

I said to that girl, "Hi, just posted your pic online there and some girls that seen it said you must have bought your top in Dunnes Stores. Did you?" Well she only flipped out, started roaring and shouting and gave me an unmerciful slap across the face. I got up off the floor dazed and said, "Oh, you've gone and done it now. You just slapped an egalitarian!" and whacked her right back. Spent the night in Store St and not only am I being charged with assault, but also with taking pictures of women's feet for my own "sexual gratification". Cheers girls, cheers for that.

La Fenetre · 22-11-2015 02:06PM

bee06 wrote: »

These threads make depressing reading every time. A woman should never expect a man to offer her a seat just because she's a woman, I certainly don't.

As for holding doors open, I hold doors open for everyone. It doesn't mean anything other than it's nice not to leave a door shut in someone's face. If a man holds a door open for me I don't assume he does it because he thinks I'm too weak to open the door myself (even though sometimes I am). I always say thanks but most people have moved on and may not hear it.

Apparently if a man does though, he sexist and patronising. To tell you the truth I only hold open doors for other men now, and I'd only offer my seat to another man, because I can't be bothered listing to the femininazi crap from certain people when anyone dares to do any random act of kindness for stranger, who just happens to be female.

Figbiscuithead · 22-11-2015 02:08PM

La Fenetre wrote: »

Apparently if a man does though, he sexist and patronising.

Again, as far as I can see, only one person felt that way on this thread.

zeffabelli · 22-11-2015 02:11PM

This thread has exposed a level of ****ed up warped thinking even beyond the contempt of egalitarianism.

Now it has turned into the hierarchising of pain as it relates to public transport.

A virtue contest, a who can suffer the most and still take the moral high ground.

It's Sunday and were not in church but oh boy the pulpits are sounding.

La Fenetre · 22-11-2015 02:13PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

This thread has exposed a level of ****ed up warped thinking even beyond the contempt of egalitarianism.

Now it has turned into the hierarchising of pain as it relates to public transport.

A virtue contest, a who can suffer the most and still take the moral high ground.

It's Sunday and were not in church but oh boy the pulpits are sounding.

Apparently its only ok to offer someone a seat now, after you've confirmed their personal health.

Why should a man offer a seat to a woman on train/bus?

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