Is the world gone PC mad ?.

La Fenetre · 20-11-2015 10:38PM

What I find strangest of all these days, is how so many people get far more upset and animated about cruelty to animals than cruelty to fellow human beings.

Whosthis · 20-11-2015 10:45PM

Now that we've got the PC gone mad bit out of the way can we get back to the most important point in the thread? Is your dad in the mafia?

Azalea · 20-11-2015 11:00PM

allibastor wrote: »

We are to be fair.
Do you remember the mayor of Naas who had to quit? He said he didnt want to deal with a group of africans due to aggresive behaviour.
It was given from a culture where being aggresive to get limited resources is the norm, but he was called racist.

We cant criticise the likes of IS because, sure there only a small bunch, nothing to worry about.

We cant say anything about travellers cause you know, great bunch.

Cant say anything really to anyone cause they can throw race or bigatry at it and we back down.

I know you don't mean it literally but I still think it's a huge stretch to say "We can't say anything really".

There was a few problems with that mayor's declaration: firstly, Africa - a gargantuan continent of over a billion people. So he should have narrowed it down to which African country - as far as I know, most African immigrants in Ireland are Nigerian, so presumably that's the African country he meant. But even then, it's problematic to say you will no longer deal with people from Nigeria (population 173.5 million) on the basis of the behaviour of some of them, even if it's a large proportion of them. It's simply wrong to ascribe the same traits to anyone at all from a particular culture. Now it's fair enough to say those traits can be found a lot in a particular culture/country, but not to do so on an individual to individual basis. A lot of Irish people act the gobshyte abroad unfortunately and it's leading to incidents of "No Irish", which is just appalling in my opinion. Meet the person ffs instead of deciding a potentially quiet and professional person is a lairy eejit just because they were born on a particular rock.

But as for that mayor: it was also an inflammatory, polarising comment for a public official to make - extremely unprofessional, and stupid. He's entitled to his opinion, but he's not entitled to express it without consequence. I can completely understand how an African immigrant who isn't causing any trouble and isn't aggressive would have been pissed off by it, because it meant he would no longer deal with them either, because of other people that look like them.

I don't understand why you say we can't criticise Isis - they're being criticised non stop for the last week (and rightly so).

I agree with you that there are PC blinkers being worn by a lot of people when it comes to problems within the traveller community but that doesn't mean people "can't" criticise them full stop - people still do so. If people were a bit more refined in their language, they wouldn't be met with such defensiveness.

allibastor · 20-11-2015 11:07PM

Azalea wrote: »

I know you don't mean it literally but I still think it's a huge stretch to say "We can't say anything really".

There was a few problems with that mayor's declaration: firstly, Africa - a gargantuan continent of over a billion people. So he should have narrowed it down to which African country - as far as I know, most African immigrants in Ireland are Nigerian, so presumably that's the African country he meant. But even then, it's problematic to say you will no longer deal with people from Nigeria (population 173.5 million) on the basis of the behaviour of some of them, even if it's a large proportion of them. It's simply wrong to ascribe the same traits to anyone at all from a particular culture. Now it's fair enough to say those traits can be found a lot in a particular culture/country, but not to do so on an individual to individual basis. A lot of Irish people act the gobshyte abroad unfortunately and it's leading to incidents of "No Irish", which is just appalling in my opinion. Meet the person ffs instead of deciding a potentially quiet and professional person is a lairy eejit just because they were born on a particular rock.

But as for that mayor: it was also an inflammatory, polarising comment for a public official to make - extremely unprofessional, and stupid. He's entitled to his opinion, but he's not entitled to express it without consequence. I can completely understand how an African immigrant who isn't causing any trouble and isn't aggressive would have been pissed off by it, because it meant he would no longer deal with them either, because of other people that look like them.

I don't understand why you say we can't criticise Isis - they're being criticised non stop for the last week (and rightly so).

I agree with you that there are PC blinkers being worn by a lot of people when it comes to problems within the traveller community but that doesn't mean people "can't" criticise them full stop - people still do so. If people were a bit more refined in their language, they wouldn't be met with such defensiveness.

My point was just that, people confuse culture with race.
Saying a culture is aggressive is one thing, saying all blacks smell like sh1te is racist.

Saying you dont like rice, is that racist or a culture thing.

To be fair, the irish abroad, we have well earned our name, me included

Azalea · 20-11-2015 11:16PM

allibastor wrote: »

My point was just that, people confuse culture with race.
Saying a culture is aggressive is one thing, saying all blacks smell like sh1te is racist.

But which black culture? This was one of the problems with it.

Saying you dont like rice, is that racist or a culture thing.

It's a food thing!

To be fair, the irish abroad, we have well earned our name, me included

It's not fair though. I have never acted the drunken eejit abroad - I've always been respectful and quiet, as I would like the same behaviour towards me. Why should I and other Irish people like me be potentially discriminated against just because we were born in the same country as a bunch of messers, even if there are a lot of said messers?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-11-2015 11:48PM

TrustedApple wrote: »

Over the last few months i have seen people going very PC on anything out there that you might say about anything. I have been called a Racist about 4 times in the last few months when i give my views on something stupid like food. I said only Asian People can cook Asian food right and i get called a Racist for that ?.

Another time i was called a Racist by a staff member in a bank because she was speaking Irish to someone at the counter and i needed to pay my rent and get back to college i said to them Jesus take your time after being in the line for 20 mins. .

Loads of stuff like this has gone nuts lately you can say anything this is not rated PG with out being insulted and brought up on it.

South Park this season has been fantastic for pin pointing what is wrong with the world. As this week as the story was that if you wont to have sex with a girl without it being rape its that you need to get them to sign a contact before hand ?. How long before something stupid like that comes in here ?.

If you get called a racist by four different people in the space of a week, there's a much stronger chance that you are in fact racist than all four of them were being PC.

TheLastMohican · 20-11-2015 11:55PM

In answer to the OP ......... it just seems that way if you are a NORMAL person and speak your mind, say what you really think and are an independent thinker.

Most sheeple are very PC ........... and I apologize to sheep in advance if they are offended by this axiom.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-11-2015 12:26AM

TheLastMohican wrote: »

In answer to the OP ......... it just seems that way if you are a NORMAL person and speak your mind, say what you really think and are an independent thinker.

Most sheeple are very PC ........... and I apologize to sheep in advance if they are offended by this axiom.

I disagree with this. People are opinionated morons. Encountering genuine PC commentary is actually very rare (unless you hang out with social workers).

Letree · 21-11-2015 12:34AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

If you get called a racist by four different people in the space of a week, there's a much stronger chance that you are in fact racist than all four of them were being PC.

The bar for being called racist is so low these days i wouldn't agree with your statement above. You can be called racist nowadays when talking about an issue that has nothing to do with race. Such as critising a religion.

Sh1tbag OToole · 21-11-2015 12:52AM

I was bored recently and had a read of most of this http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

No doubt there are souls in Ireland rapidly trying to implement trigger warnings and microagression in Ireland although I'm not sure how they work. There are probably some students who think "America is better than us, America has this and therefore we need it too". Still not sure what a microagression is besides being 1/1000 of a milliagression which is 1/1000 of a full unit of agression.

racso1975 · 21-11-2015 12:56AM

La Fenetre wrote: »

What I find strangest of all these days, is how so many people get far more upset and animated about cruelty to animals than cruelty to fellow human beings.

Was looking at that in my local tescos last few weeks. 2 charities one for animal rescue and 1 for centre for people with leaning disabilities. Each week the animal shelter got phenomenal amout more tokens from joe and Josephine public meaning more money went to rescue, :mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-11-2015 12:57AM

Letree wrote: »

The bar for being called racist is so low these days i wouldn't agree with your statement above. You can be called racist nowadays when talking about an issue that has nothing to do with race. Such as critising a religion.

As a one-off, yes - you'd have a point; but four times?

And to be honest, accusations of racism are just as rare as accusations of PC. And I've heard people say things about refugees not welcome and still not be pulled up on it (or pulled up with a great deal more accuracy than simply being labeled racist).

The example highlighted by the OP is beyond bizarre - pretty much to the point of surrealism - that I'm of the opinion he's making it up. People simply don't act like that and certainly not bank staff. They'd be pulled up on it by their management very damn sharpish if they did.

La Fenetre · 21-11-2015 01:35AM

racso1975 wrote: »

Was looking at that in my local tescos last few weeks. 2 charities one for animal rescue and 1 for centre for people with leaning disabilities. Each week the animal shelter got phenomenal amout more tokens from joe and Josephine public meaning more money went to rescue, :mad:

And you only have to see the disproportionate reaction that any mistreatment of an animal in the news gets in comparison to the mistreatment of human beings. Another memorable example was the huge volume of complaints that flooded RTE concerning the Love Hate scene that depicted a cat being shot, which dwarfed any complaints about the depicting the "exciting" and "gripping" portal of human torture and killing.

RDM_83 again · 21-11-2015 01:45AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I disagree with this. People are opinionated morons. Encountering genuine PC commentary is actually very rare (unless you hang out with social workers).

Hey thats anti-pc against social workers social workers

(genuinely though social workers will tend to be on the forefront of social care issues so though the language might be phrased in a way that is politically correct and not gross generalizations against a whole community any social worker you talk to will probably have more knowledge of the specific problems with X community)

mcmoustache wrote: »

It might be because we never, as a nation, oppressed brown people and don't have the white guilt that they do in the US and UK. I'm not sure, really. It could be because we are sceptical about being told how to think, for historical reasons. Even here, we have a few borderline PC Poes who noone takes seriously.

I don't know. Irish people are quite liberal but I think we can smell bullsh*t better than the USianns and Brits.

Only lived in the UK a while but impression I got is that Irish and other Europeans people will say something like Caribbeans have hot tempers and Asians can be damn sexist fairly openly or some other generalization but they don't care that much, some English people will be completely correct and then you will get drunk with them and find out that they are actually racists in a serious way, encountered the same with "liberal" yanks.

Ave Sodalis · 21-11-2015 01:46AM

La Fenetre wrote: »

What I find strangest of all these days, is how so many people get far more upset and animated about cruelty to animals than cruelty to fellow human beings.

So?

racso1975 wrote: »

Was looking at that in my local tescos last few weeks. 2 charities one for animal rescue and 1 for centre for people with leaning disabilities. Each week the animal shelter got phenomenal amout more tokens from joe and Josephine public meaning more money went to rescue, :mad:

Again, so? Maybe you should set up another stand for learning disabilities to match the animal rescue one. I don't get the problem here.

I don't think the world has gone PC mad. I do think the world is developing at quite a fast rate (or at least Ireland is) and a lot of people are still struggling with that. Yes, you get people going out of their way to get offended. You will always have that. But for the most part, there's far more examples of people whinging about "PC gone mad" in a variety of situations (mostly irrelevant I've found), than actual examples of PC gone mad.

kingtiger · 21-11-2015 01:48AM

you're hanging around with a load of **** OP

that is all

Genuine people are not caught up with what other people think or say for being afraid and ostracized for making a witty remark and then for those fools/idiots perceiving it as racism or xenophobia

fcuk them cnuts

*drunk post* hope I made sense

Geuze · 21-11-2015 01:52AM

allibastor wrote: »

We are to be fair.
Do you remember the mayor of Naas who had to quit? He said he didnt want to deal with a group of africans due to aggresive behaviour.
It was given from a culture where being aggresive to get limited resources is the norm, but he was called racist.

I have dealt with maybe 10 West Africans in my job.

All have been ambitious / demanding.

My typical Irish "client" is sheepish/quiet/unquestioning.

Whereas the west Africans have been very nice, but demanding of extra attention / ambitious.

So they make you work harder / they expect more [even though they likely get the service for free].

No harm so far, indeed I've often said wouldn't it be great if Irish people were as ambitious.

But, I can see how, in certain circumstances, their demanding attitudes might rile some people.

Geuze · 21-11-2015 01:56AM

Example, purely anecdotal.

West African was driving past our house, saw my father cutting the lawn outside garden wall, between garden wall and road, pulled up, and demanded that he cut her lawn.

I guess she presumed he was a council worker, as he was outside garden wall.

My father tried to explain, but hard to talk to them.

You can see now why that councillor in Kildare got stressed dealing with them.

Geuze · 21-11-2015 02:00AM

Next example, of many:

Father taught one west African, one on one tuition, grand.

One day, a different lad strolls into house, no explanation, sits down at table for tuition.

Father is a meek man, says to himself, this might be a brother of original student.

No, what had happened was one African teenager/parent simply assumes that the friend of the family can come along to private tuition, without asking teacher.

An Irish parent would never do that.

They don't lack ambition, but they do lack common sense in some areas.

Geuze · 21-11-2015 02:02AM

Several more examples, which I won't go into here, but which would all support that Kildare councillor.

Azalea · 21-11-2015 02:08AM

And if that was his experience, that was his experience - the problem though was with him saying he wouldn't deal with any more Africans full stop, which, by that logic, would mean excluding people who are African and *aren't* demanding and confrontational. Not professional or becoming from a public official.

Junkyard Tom · 21-11-2015 02:18AM

allibastor wrote: »

Saying you dont like rice, is that racist

No it's ricest which is a subset of the whole Carbohydracism thing.

RDM_83 again · 21-11-2015 02:25AM

Azalea wrote: »

And if that was his experience, that was his experience - the problem though was with him saying he wouldn't deal with any more Africans full stop, which, by that logic, would mean excluding people who are African and *aren't* demanding and confrontational. Not professional or becoming from a public official.

Worked with a Nigerian guy years ago and he got a hard time of it because of his nationality, he was a really honest deeply Christian guy (I had nothing in common with him

), it wasn't just Irish people though other Africans don't like Nigerians its just that Irish people think that African is a synonym for Nigerian.

Obviously Nigerians don't deserve to be pre-judged because of the actions of a few but watch a film like District 9 which is all subtle as a brick anti-apartheid references, who's the criminal gangster drug dealers to match the white oppressive commando's and corporate heads, Nigerians. And thats meant to be a progressive film with a positive message

Azalea · 21-11-2015 02:44AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

it wasn't just Irish people though other Africans don't like Nigerians

Yep. I know a Ugandan woman who's really prejudiced towards Nigerians - making the "All Africans are the same" kinda mindset even more ludicrous.

The Randy Riverbeast · 21-11-2015 02:54AM

One thing I have noticed about the whole racism thing is how many people try to get people to call them racist. Have probably seen more "I cant say this without people calling me a racist" etc than someone actually calling the person racist.

21-11-2015 07:23AM

Geuze wrote: »

Several more examples, which I won't go into here, but which would all support that Kildare councillor.

Um.

You seem to suggest that the Kildare Councillor made some mild observation about the characteristics of some African people.

In fact he said he would not represent specifically "black Africans".

Furthermore, he went forward as a public representative. "Black Africans" are part of the public he represents. It's not like someone in a private practice who may decline clients on the basis of their character as an individual (obviously not on the basis of race).

PLL · 21-11-2015 08:01AM

Not to social media bash, as I use many forms of it. But due to the rise in social media, and the fact EVERYONE now has the opportunity to voice and debate their opinion, means you get people proclaiming wild assumptions about issues they know fúck all about. Then they get all PC on people that give informed opinions just because they don't like them when the person probably had a valid intelligent point.

On the racism note, I had an Irish taxi driver try to promote using their app instead of halio. One of his selling points was 'We only use local drivers' *Pause for reaction* followed by 'Ya know what I mean by LOCAL now don't ya?'

LDN_Irish · 21-11-2015 10:00AM

A public representative being forced to stepped down after saying that he wouldn't represent black African constituents based on the behaviour of some black Africans he'd met. It really is PC gone mad. Britain and America are even worse. They're not even allowed to refuse to serve black people for being black in shops anymore.

You'd never catch the Irish moaning that people are discriminating against them based on the perceived behaviour of some of them. Except the odd time it still happens like the link below. And we still talk about NINA and "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" but that's completely different because we didn't bring it all on ourselves like everyone else does.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/teacher-denied-south-korean-job-due-to-irish-alcoholism-1.1991614

Annasopra · 21-11-2015 10:57AM

Geuze wrote: »

Example, purely anecdotal.

West African was driving past our house, saw my father cutting the lawn outside garden wall, between garden wall and road, pulled up, and demanded that he cut her lawn.

I guess she presumed he was a council worker, as he was outside garden wall.

My father tried to explain, but hard to talk to them.

You can see now why that councillor in Kildare got stressed dealing with them.

How on earth do you know he was West African?

21-11-2015 11:05AM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

A public representative being forced to stepped down after saying that he wouldn't represent black African constituents based on the behaviour of some black Africans he'd met. It really is PC gone mad. Britain and America are even worse. They're not even allowed to refuse to serve black people for being black in shops anymore.

I genuinely can't decide if you're being sarcastic or serious, when you think it's PC gone mad to not allow someone refusing to serve black people because they're black ... or to not represent someone because of how others act.

Maybe you are being sarcastic. If so, blame my slight dyslexia :pac:

Is the world gone PC mad ?.

Comments