Anti-terrorist Defence Programme

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I haven't seen the documentary. Why didn't they arrest them if they knew they were members of Al Queda?

Could be a couple of reasons.

1. Is it a crime in Ireland to be a member of Al Qaeda?

2. Assume it is. There's a gap between knowing someone is a member of Al Qaeda and being able to prove it to the satisfaction of a court in a criminal trial.

3. In terms of policing priorities and protecting the public, it may be better to monitor known members of a terrorist organisation and gather intelligence through doing so (as apparently was done here) than to arrest and imprison them.

I've checked. The legal position is this:

1. A " terrorist group that engages in, promotes, encourages or advocates the commission, in or outside the State, of a terrorist activity" is an unlawful organisation in Ireland "for the purposes of the Offences against the State Acts 1939 to 1998"; Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005 s. 5. That would seeem to cover Al Qaeda.

2. Under s. 21 of the Offences against the State Act 1939, it's an offence to be a member of an unlawful organisation. That's the section under which people are convicted of IRA membership, because of the 2005 Act people could be convicted of Al Qaeda membership under the same section.

3. It's Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act, 1972 s. 3(2) which says that a Chief Superintendent's belief is evidence of membership of an unlawful organisation. That, too, is extended to "terrorist groups" like Al Qaeda by the 2005 legislation.

So, the position in Ireland is that you can be convicted of Al Qaeda membership in the same way as you can be convicted of IRA membership, on the opinion of a garda of the rank of Chief Superintendent or above.

So why weren't these guys convicted? There are a couple of possibilities.

First, the one already mentioned. For the same reason as the guards don't arrest and convict every suspected member of the IRA. Monitoring them will often make for more productive policing.

Secondly, it could be because the guards don't have as good intelligence about AQ as they do about The Lads. These guys weren't Irish, remember. They flew in for a meeting, and flew out again. Presumably they hadn't bee under garda surveillance before they arrived. So on what basis would a Chief Superintendent form the opinion that they were AQ members? "I've been told by someone that they are" is not really going to cut it.

Thirdly, undoubtedly the guards were told by the police or intelligence services of other countries. Other countries might be, I don't know,the teeniest bit reluctant to share intelligence with the guards if the guards are going to blunder in with hobnailed boots, arrest people, uncover the surveillance operations of other police forces, disrupt further intelligence-gathering and reveal confidential intelligence in open court.