Anti-terrorist Defence Programme

ttenneb

The Government has assured us that in the event of a terrorist attack we have adequate defence facilities in place. Our police force, the Garda Siochána, will spring into action with their truncheons, thus ensuring the safety of the citizens of Ireland.
The defence mechanism will be augmented by the implementation of the recently introduced "Iodine Tablet For Truncheon Exchange Programme" which will provide every man, woman and child with their own personal truncheon. A bi-lingual instruction manual will accompany the weapon. Whoopee!!!

Hemerodrome

I still have my iodine tablets. The rest of yis are bollixed.

Amirani

We're pretty much just as well equipped as most European nations. We have specialised units within the police and the defence forces to respond to stuff like this. On the beat police in mainland Europe wouldn't fare much better against lads with Kalashnikovs.

Kerrydude1981

God forbid if it did happen,

The waiting time for ambulances could be long and then when the injured get to the hospital they would have to join the queue on hospital trolleys in hallways

The Army Rangers would be our main men.

darkpagandeath

People sitting around a car is anarchy in the streets I'm not going to hold my breath.

B17G

We have him on standby..........

spaceHopper

What if there is overtime involved will the terrorists have to wait till 9 for the police to shoot them or can they count on a speedy response from wx152

mad muffin

Throw Michael D at them. That'll teach them to mess with Ireland 😂

biko

I just use my finger guns, pew pew.

Mesrine65

ttenneb wrote: »

The Government has assured us that in the event of a terrorist attack we have adequate defence facilities in place. Our police force, the Garda Siochána, will spring into action with their truncheons, thus ensuring the safety of the citizens of Ireland.
The defence mechanism will be augmented by the implementation of the recently introduced "Iodine Tablet For Truncheon Exchange Programme" which will provide every man, woman and child with their own personal truncheon. A bi-lingual instruction manual will accompany the weapon. Whoopee!!!

Can I keep the bitchin-ass-whuppin one that I already have & just send in me iodine tab?

On second thoughts...a dropsy back-up might be handy to have :cool:

acb121

Whats this Iodene tab business.

A scumbag with an AK47 and enough ammo in a shopping centre could take out hundreds of people before the police even knew about it.

I would have no problem in attempting to infringe his human rights.

The_Valeyard

We have plenty of a experience in dealing with the lads up North and cross border illegal activities and armed groups. I'd say we would actually handle the situation in an effective and quick manner.

lakesider

As long as the attack doesnt take place during the water meter installation hours we will be grand:rolleyes:

seriously though we couldnt cope with a tinkers feud never mind an ISIS attack!:o

KingBrian2

The bomb disposal unit is sent in dozens of times to deactivate suspicious devices and plenty of the drug gangs in Dublin and around the border pack hardcore weaponry. They are increasingly shipping in sophisticated side arms.

Fukuyama

No country can defend against random attacks with automatic weapons. Except via intelligence route which hopefully the guards and G2 have handled.

If it gets to a point where guys are shooting on the street there's going to be a high death count.

Guards could respond. Plenty of detectives and ERU. I don't think most people realise how many guards are armed. Every station in Dublin would have guns/uzis, and the ERU are always around.

As for a hostage or ongoing event: army and Army rangers would be well able.

KingBrian2

Fukuyama wrote: »

No country can defend against random attacks with automatic weapons. Except via intelligence route which hopefully the guards and G2 have handled.

If it gets to a point where guys are shooting on the street there's going to be a high death count.

Guards could respond. Plenty of detectives and ERU. I don't think most people realise how many guards are armed. Every station in Dublin would have guns/uzis, and the ERU are always around.

As for a hostage or ongoing event: army and Army rangers would be well able.

I was watching Question Time from the UK, all talk of war drums. By starting another war they will only cause more Islamist groups to form.

Fukuyama

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I was watching Question Time from the UK, all talk of war drums. By starting another war they will only cause more Islamist groups to form.

There'll be no war a la Iraq or Afghanistan.

Air Strikes and special forces - how it should have been fought in 2001. That's all that has been happening (via UK for special forces) and all that will happen.

Track the ****ers iPhone and guide a missile onto his house.

ISIS now have the capabilities of a state. Weapons, infrastructure, cities and, crucially, money. These need to be eroded. Can't think of a better way than a 300lb bomb.

Europe should continue to accept refugees and acknowledge the fact that this will not be the last terrorist attack. There will be more. The key part is that we don't let them win by dictating to us our thoughts about muslims.

We also need to prop up Assad. I wouldn't have said that 2 years ago. But we need an ally who can actually stand up and fight. The Iraqis don't have it in them. No sir, we need Syria and Iran.

Hammer89

acb121 wrote: »

A scumbag with an AK47 and enough ammo in a shopping centre could take out hundreds of people before the police even knew about it.

If it's the Jervis Centre we could get Tommo the rapper to stab him with a syringe, or spit lyrics at them so they say 'f*ck this' and detonate before their target.

Weatherproof79

You're watching too much tv

long range shooter

Fukuyama wrote: »

No country can defend against random attacks with automatic weapons. Except via intelligence route which hopefully the guards and G2 have handled.

If it gets to a point where guys are shooting on the street there's going to be a high death count.

Guards could respond. Plenty of detectives and ERU. I don't think most people realise how many guards are armed. Every station in Dublin would have guns/uzis, and the ERU are always around.

As for a hostage or ongoing event: army and Army rangers would be well able.

No the best defence is not to let them in at all.

Peregrinus

Fukuyama wrote: »

No country can defend against random attacks with automatic weapons. Except via intelligence route which hopefully the guards and G2 have handled.

This.

The US has a high police-to-people ratio and all police are armed and, as we know from a variety of recent incidents. they're frequently trigger-happy.

And yet it also has a strikingly high rate of spree killings, multiple murders in public places, etc.

The fact is that the desire of willingness of people to perpetrate attacks on random strangers, and not care if they die doing so, is not a problem that can be solved by even the most sophisticated and highly-resourced policing methods. This may be an unpalatable truth, but it's a truth.

We have a fair bit of experience in dealing with terrorism in this part of the world. Intelligence before the event is useful. A quick and heavy response afterwards, not so much. Ultimately only political action can address the factors which give rise to terrorism.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

long range shooter wrote: »

No the best defence is not to let them in at all.

Mother of God...

Anita Blow

Our hospitals can barely cope in peacetime, let alone with a big disaster like a terrorist attack. We just wouldn't have capacity to deal with the ~300 or so injured in the Paris Attacks.

lawlolawl

The_Valeyard wrote: »

We have plenty of a experience in dealing with the lads up North and cross border illegal activities and armed groups. I'd say we would actually handle the situation in an effective and quick manner.

Jihadists are a completely different kind of terrorist threat to anything we've dealt with before.

cajonlardo

There was an rte documentary a few years ago about muslims in ireland. It was very positive and showed strong integration in Irish society through community and sport etc.

A very short segment showed a clip of film of a joint Garda / Army surveillance of Al Queda members who apparently believed they could fly into Ireland and hold a meeting without arousing suspicion. Have to say it was extremely impressive. The subjects were under surveillance from when they got off the boat and planes until they left the country. There was even recordings of their conversations.

Seriously, the days of Irish Keystone cops and Dad's army, if they ever existed, are dead and gone.

Son Of A Vidic

We certainly have one very unique portable defense system than no country can match.

opiniated

Hemerodrome wrote: »

I still have my iodine tablets. The rest of yis are bollixed.

Ahem. You better check the expiry date.....

I dumped mine a few years ago - and they were a few years out of date then.........:D

KingBrian2

All those Shi'ite massacres taking place in Iraq went unnoticed and allowed the terrorist organisations to grow and merge into ISIS. As did the Jihadi terrorists in Gaza that even Hamas could not control. The major powers refused to look at the innocent lives being killed in all these Arab states and only by going after these groups with local forces can you flush these Jihadists out and eradicate their safe houses.

sjb25

We grand we have these boys to look out for us

JustTheOne

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/paris-terror-attacks-ireland-warned-4951989#ICID=sharebar_facebook


Surely the use of Shannon is worth a discussion.

These boys dont care if we say were neutral.

Have to start thinking like they do and in their eyes we are helping the slaughter of innocent Muslims.

Irish Praetorian

Samuel Ancient Signpost wrote: »

Mother of God...

What you think it's bad because it wouldn't work or because it would make us feel bad?

(and yes, I am bored and in need of an outrageous debate to distract me)

cajonlardo

cajonlardo wrote: »

There was an rte documentary a few years ago about muslims in ireland. It was very positive and showed strong integration in Irish society through community and sport etc.

A very short segment showed a clip of film of a joint Garda / Army surveillance of Al Queda members who apparently believed they could fly into Ireland and hold a meeting without arousing suspicion. Have to say it was extremely impressive. The subjects were under surveillance from when they got off the boat and planes until they left the country. There was even recordings of their conversations.

Seriously, the days of Irish Keystone cops and Dad's army, if they ever existed, are dead and gone.

I haven't seen the documentary. Why didn't they arrest them if they knew they were members of Al Queda?

long range shooter

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I haven't seen the documentary. Why didn't they arrest them if they knew they were members of Al Queda?

its called politics

ceadaoin.

JustTheOne wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/paris-terror-attacks-ireland-warned-4951989#ICID=sharebar_facebook


Surely the use of Shannon is worth a discussion.

These boys dont care if we say were neutral.

Have to start thinking like they do and in their eyes we are helping the slaughter of innocent Muslims.

They are slaughtering enough innocent Muslims themselves. That's not why Ireland would be a target. They don't care about 'neutral' countries. Anyone who isn't like them is fair game.

Peregrinus

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I haven't seen the documentary. Why didn't they arrest them if they knew they were members of Al Queda?

Could be a couple of reasons.

1. Is it a crime in Ireland to be a member of Al Qaeda?

2. Assume it is. There's a gap between knowing someone is a member of Al Qaeda and being able to prove it to the satisfaction of a court in a criminal trial.

3. In terms of policing priorities and protecting the public, it may be better to monitor known members of a terrorist organisation and gather intelligence through doing so (as apparently was done here) than to arrest and imprison them.

JustTheOne

Peregrinus wrote: »

Could be a couple of reasons.

1. Is it a crime in Ireland to be a member of Al Qaeda?

2. Assume it is. There's a gap between knowing someone is a member of Al Qaeda and being able to prove it to the satisfaction of a court in a criminal trial.

3. In terms of policing priorities and protecting the public, it may be better to monitor known members of a terrorist organisation and gather intelligence through doing so (as apparently was done here) than to arrest and imprison them.

But all thats needed to convict someone of ira membership is a gardas opinion.

Why isn't it the same?

Its not hard to see why.

Peregrinus

I've checked. The legal position is this:

1. A " terrorist group that engages in, promotes, encourages or advocates the commission, in or outside the State, of a terrorist activity" is an unlawful organisation in Ireland "for the purposes of the Offences against the State Acts 1939 to 1998"; Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005 s. 5. That would seeem to cover Al Qaeda.

2. Under s. 21 of the Offences against the State Act 1939, it's an offence to be a member of an unlawful organisation. That's the section under which people are convicted of IRA membership, because of the 2005 Act people could be convicted of Al Qaeda membership under the same section.

3. It's Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act, 1972 s. 3(2) which says that a Chief Superintendent's belief is evidence of membership of an unlawful organisation. That, too, is extended to "terrorist groups" like Al Qaeda by the 2005 legislation.

So, the position in Ireland is that you can be convicted of Al Qaeda membership in the same way as you can be convicted of IRA membership, on the opinion of a garda of the rank of Chief Superintendent or above.

So why weren't these guys convicted? There are a couple of possibilities.

First, the one already mentioned. For the same reason as the guards don't arrest and convict every suspected member of the IRA. Monitoring them will often make for more productive policing.

Secondly, it could be because the guards don't have as good intelligence about AQ as they do about The Lads. These guys weren't Irish, remember. They flew in for a meeting, and flew out again. Presumably they hadn't bee under garda surveillance before they arrived. So on what basis would a Chief Superintendent form the opinion that they were AQ members? "I've been told by someone that they are" is not really going to cut it.

Thirdly, undoubtedly the guards were told by the police or intelligence services of other countries. Other countries might be, I don't know,the teeniest bit reluctant to share intelligence with the guards if the guards are going to blunder in with hobnailed boots, arrest people, uncover the surveillance operations of other police forces, disrupt further intelligence-gathering and reveal confidential intelligence in open court.