Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Red King · 19-11-2015 11:09PM

DubVelo wrote: »

And do you have Muslim friends just for balance, like? Just wondering if you'd heard the other side.

Yes I have Muslim friends. And some of them are friends with the Poles.

What's your point?

DubVelo · 19-11-2015 11:09PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Not even close

Source is a kremlin propaganda front and about as reliable as RT.

The Rape of Lucretia · 19-11-2015 11:14PM

Overheal wrote: »

I'd argue scientology is a pretty bad religion. So yeah, it is arguable.

If you dont have enough members you remain a cult.

If you can expand your cult sufficiently, then you can claim blame anyone criticising your cult of being offensive and blaspheming, because now your cult is called a religion.

DubVelo · 19-11-2015 11:15PM

Red King wrote: »

Yes I have Muslim friends. And some of them are friends with the Poles.

What's your point?

Just curious as I've heard muslims be xenophobic etc., air views I was a bit shocked to hear from those raised in the west.

Red King · 19-11-2015 11:22PM

DubVelo wrote: »

Just curious as I've heard muslims be xenophobic etc., air views I was a bit shocked to hear from those raised in the west.

Well obviously it is not exclusive to any one group in society.

I am just asking if there is a particularly strong xenophobic element in the Polish community here?

Orangebrigade · 19-11-2015 11:44PM

We are constantly bombing ISIS and it doesn't seem to make much difference if you still have members smuggling weapons into Europe. I would have soldiers on the ground and take back those major cities.

opiniated · 19-11-2015 11:46PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Or how about we just ban Wahhabi sect teaching altogether? **** pussy-footing around with it.

That's not possible, because freedom of religion is classed as a human right.

KingBrian2 · 19-11-2015 11:48PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Zionists Jews killed 2,300 Palestinians in the Summer of 2014, over 75% of which were unarmed, non combatant civilians, 500 of which were children and hardly any worldwide criticism from world leaders or organisations and nobody holding all Jews responsible or calling for all Jews to come out against these atrocities and march to denounce same.

Many people did come out to denounce those actions. Many European countries came out to declare support for Palestine entering the UN as a Nation. Nobody is listening to these voices.

Gatling · 19-11-2015 11:48PM

Orangebrigade wrote: »

We are constantly bombing ISIS and it doesn't seem to make much difference if you still have members smuggling weapons into Europe. I would have soldiers on the ground and take back those major cities.

Soldiers on the ground means you have to fight Isis in syria and Iraq and or various dangerous groups dying for a scap with any foreign soldiers that happen to set foot in Iraq .

Mesrine65 · 19-11-2015 11:53PM

Orangebrigade wrote: »

We are constantly bombing ISIS and it doesn't seem to make much difference if you still have members smuggling weapons into Europe. I would have soldiers on the ground and take back those major cities.

Volunteer...

https://www.facebook.com/TheLionsOfRojava

m@cc@ · 20-11-2015 12:03AM

Depp wrote: »

Christians interpret things wrong, Muslims interpret things wrong, I'v never denied that what I've said is what other way is it possible to interpret a line that says to behead anyone who worships a different religeon? What other ways can you read those words and get a different meaning. You keep going in circles with this but you're not getting anywhere, I'm not stating that theres a distinction between Christian and Islamic interpretation of words, Im stating that the words of the qu'ran, when taken literally, breed radicalism, empower evil men, and provide a tool for those evil men to recruit the young to strap explosive vests to themselves and then allow them to justify all these evil things they do as acts of god. But yeah come on and tell me how christians do the same.

Hopefully it'll be somewhat enlightening to get a proper perspective of things.

Back to my earlier point, you are essentially making excuses for these people to carry out these act. People can interpret things anything anyway they want to achieve their goals. Having a go at Qu'ran isn't going to solve anything.

And furthermore, people proclaiming that we should go and bomb ISIS isn't going to solve anything. If the last 14 years have taught us anything, it's that we will not eliminate Islamic terrorism and it's a joke to suggest that we can. The best we can hope for is containment like with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

Maybe what we should be pushing for is who is funding ISIS (we all know who it is).

BlaasForRafa · 20-11-2015 12:13AM

Red King wrote: »

I might get criticised for this but one thing I have noticed in the past few months, and especially since the Paris attack, is the attitude of my Polish friends towards Muslims.

They are shockingly xenophobic and anti-Muslim.

Now, I have to say that I am rather taken aback by this as outside of this attiitude they are all really nice people. However the stuff they are saying both in person and online is really starting to make me reassess my friendship with some of them.

Poland was at war with the Ottoman empire for a looooooooooooooooong time.

Overheal wrote: »

I'd argue scientology is a pretty bad religion. So yeah, it is arguable.

I must have missed all those bombings and shootings that scientologists carried out. (I ain't a fan of scientology but seriously...comparing it to islam???)

BlaasForRafa · 20-11-2015 12:32AM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Doesn't ANYBODY have quotes from the Quran that shows the book in a good light.

And on that theme, Where are all the Boards Muslims? Are there NONE among us? And if so, what does that say about this site or about Muslims.

There's at least one muslim on this thread. Basically he shows up on any thread involving islam and defends it but rarely actually identifies himself as a muslim in these threads, as is his right to do so it must be said. But those who know it can clearly see his bias.

Wrongway1985 · 20-11-2015 12:34AM

Overheal wrote: »

I'd argue scientology is a pretty bad religion. So yeah, it is arguable.

To me hearing someone say "did ya hear yer woman/man is into that Scientology" is the same as saying "did ya hear she/he is into that Catholicism" Basically I think ALL religions should be binned but I'm not going to condemn anyone over going about their lives with whatever beliefs that they hold.

DubVelo · 20-11-2015 12:47AM

Red King wrote: »

Well obviously it is not exclusive to any one group in society.

I am just asking if there is a particularly strong xenophobic element in the Polish community here?

Here you go, British Muslim attacked for converting to Christianity, saved by Polish neighbours: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12005859/Bradford-father-living-in-fear-after-converting-from-Islam-to-Christianity.html
Happy days.

bajer101 · 20-11-2015 12:58AM

Orangebrigade wrote: »

We are constantly bombing ISIS and it doesn't seem to make much difference if you still have members smuggling weapons into Europe. I would have soldiers on the ground and take back those major cities.

Bombing them won't make any difference. While part of me thinks that there is an argument to be made for nuking Raqqa and all the the other Daesh strongholds and accepting the civilian casualties (as in Hiroshima and Nagasaki), that won't work here. There are 1.4 billion Muslims on this planet and they are spread out. Contrary to what our leftist friends would have us believe, these lads are just rearing to go. Nuke Raqqa and that will just radicaise them quicker.

Most of the Islamist apolgists I have encountered here haven't a notion. They haven't studied the Quran. They are typical idealists. Their severed heads would be sitting on their chests before they even copped on that the people who did it were the people they were defending.

Most of the liberals I know who have a serious problem with Islam are the ones who have studied it. None of the apologists on these threads have studied Islam. None!

Where are the rigorous Islam scholars? Why don't they dip in to these threads to correct us? They don't give a fúck about us. They are too busy arguing about whether Muhammed said we should be accommodated, killed, or taxed. The likes of this thread is of no interest to them. We're kafir - they don't give a toss about us.

Depp · 20-11-2015 01:03AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

You come across as a ISIS supporter. And you posted this the other day in another thread

''Hi
just thinking of getting a ruger 10/22 target for some small game and possibly use it at the range.
question is,are you allowed semi auto for competitions?or only single shot.
thanks''

WTF am I suppose to think ?

This is brilliant, to come out with something like this exactly as i was typing this was exactly what there next step would be, the ''arguements'' some of you guys come up with are hilarious, ignore whats actually said and rabit on taking the conversation off track and resulting to insults then when that doesnt work. christ its pathetic!

Depp · 20-11-2015 01:08AM

bajer101 wrote: »

That's true. It is kind of astonishing when there are some genuine reformist Muslims like Maajid Nawaz - who really know what they are talking about - saying that there is a problem with the Left's attitude to Islam, and the white, middle class, Atheist, Guardian reading Left try to tell him that he is completely wrong.

Its an absolute joke at this stage, just cant get the blinkers off these guys, more important to be politically correct and progressive. The only response you'll ever get is the ira/kkk/christianity is bad too/youre just racist/you posted about guns before you must be in isis/your grammar is poor, its just so frustrating and the traction these guys get is terrifying.

TheLastMohican · 20-11-2015 01:14AM

bajer101 wrote: »

That's true. It is kind of astonishing when there are some genuine reformist Muslims like Maajid Nawaz - who really know what they are talking about - saying that there is a problem with the Left's attitude to Islam, and the white, middle class, Atheist, Guardian reading Left try to tell him that he is completely wrong.

You are not allowed to talk about long-haired men and short-haired wimmin in such a manner. Please desist!

DubVelo · 20-11-2015 01:16AM

Depp wrote: »

Its an absolute joke at this stage, just cant get the blinkers off these guys, more important to be politically correct and progressive. The only response you'll ever get is the ira/kkk/christianity is bad too/youre just racist/you posted about guns before you must be in isis/your grammar is poor, its just so frustrating and the traction these guys get is terrifying.

Same people I know that were campaigning for gay marriage! It's mad. :pac:

m@cc@ · 20-11-2015 01:20AM

Depp wrote: »

Its an absolute joke at this stage, just cant get the blinkers off these guys, more important to be politically correct and progressive. The only response you'll ever get is the ira/kkk/christianity is bad too/youre just racist/you posted about guns before you must be in isis/your grammar is poor, its just so frustrating and the traction these guys get is terrifying.

Ha ha! Using "progressive" as a negative. You've been great craic. Cheers!

bajer101 · 20-11-2015 01:27AM

I'll ask again - remove the god aspect from Islam and just stick to the social, legal, political and familial aspect of its ideology. Is there anyone here who is ok with it? If you think it is ok, why wouldn't you defend National Socialism - Nazis? Think about that.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 20-11-2015 01:29AM

Depp wrote: »

This is brilliant, to come out with something like this exactly as i was typing this was exactly what there next step would be, the ''arguements'' some of you guys come up with are hilarious, ignore whats actually said and rabit on taking the conversation off track and resulting to insults then when that doesnt work. christ its pathetic!

You don't even need anyone to say anything, you literally invent things you think people might say and then manage to work yourself up in a mouth foaming fluster over it in the same post.. even though it hasn't actually happened.

It's actually entertaining watching, if only you weren't serious.

bajer101 · 20-11-2015 01:29AM

m@cc@ wrote: »

Ha ha! Using "progressive" as a negative. You've been great craic. Cheers!

Care to debate with me?

Christy42 · 20-11-2015 01:32AM

DubVelo wrote: »

Same people I know that were campaigning for gay marriage! It's mad. :pac:

Shocking I know, some of them I know aren't even campaigning to deport all the people from IONA to some random island.

There is a bloody difference between saying that Islam isn't the main issue here (I mean come on, one of the guys ran a bar and one guy smoked a spliff afterwards) and saying that everything in it is all rosy.

The reason Christianity and the crusades were brought into this was to show that any religion can be used to justify violence (impressively since they tend to have the do not kill in each of them, including islam). Heck if needs be I am sure they could take the hungry caterpillar and use it to justify these acts. That is what they are doing, it is essentially what humans have always done which is to act how they want and use religion to justify it. Just these people are psychopaths going around blowing themselves up.

Depp · 20-11-2015 01:33AM

m@cc@ wrote: »

Ha ha! Using "progressive" as a negative. You've been great craic. Cheers!

If you read my post I said that it was bad that it was more important than stopping terrorism, sorry I didn't complete the statement thought i got the message across but nice try though you almost deflected again, keep at it though you might eventually!

Also in response to your post from earlier, I never excused them in any way, shape or form, they are subhuman embodiments of evil, end of. My point is that having a book like the qur'an drilled into you from a young age its not exacty going to make extremism less likely to happen is it? On your second point however I agree completely, bombs aren't going to solve Islamic terrorism, it will stop Daesh, who should be stopped, but another madman will pop up using the same motivations and justifications coming from the same evil lines in the same ''Peaceful'' book. And you'll still be here banging on about how the IRA were just as bad.

Red King · 20-11-2015 01:34AM

DubVelo wrote: »

Here you go, British Muslim attacked for converting to Christianity, saved by Polish neighbours: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12005859/Bradford-father-living-in-fear-after-converting-from-Islam-to-Christianity.html
Happy days.

Ireland is not part of the UK.

long range shooter · 20-11-2015 01:36AM

whats more important is to stop the immigration before it gets completely out of hand.

m@cc@ · 20-11-2015 01:36AM

bajer101 wrote: »

I'll ask again - remove the god aspect from Islam and just stick to the social, legal, political and familial aspect of its ideology. Is there anyone here who is ok with it? If you think it is ok, why wouldn't you defend National Socialism - Nazis? Think about that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

So say for instance, we buy into the belief that Islam is evil. What do you propose we do to solve it? Send missionaries instead of military?

Mountainsandh · 20-11-2015 01:38AM

bajer101 wrote: »

Bombing them won't make any difference. While part of me thinks that there is an argument to be made for nuking Raqqa and all the the other Daesh strongholds and accepting the civilian casualties (as in Hiroshima and Nagasaki), that won't work here. There are 1.4 billion Muslims on this planet and they are spread out. Contrary to what our leftist friends would have us believe, these lads are just rearing to go. Nuke Raqqa and that will just radicaise them quicker.

Most of the Islamist apolgists I have encountered here haven't a notion. They haven't studied the Quran. They are typical idealists. Their severed heads would be sitting on their chests before they even copped on that the people who did it were the people they were defending.

Most of the liberals I know who have a serious problem with Islam are the ones who have studied it. None of the apologists on these threads have studied Islam. None!

Where are the rigorous Islam scholars? Why don't they dip in to these threads to correct us? They don't give a fúck about us. They are too busy arguing about whether Muhammed said we should be accommodated, killed, or taxed. The likes of this thread is of no interest to them. We're kafir - they don't give a toss about us.

Part of me agrees with you, or with parts of your post, but I can't reconcile the image of the Quran and scholars you project with how a Muslim friend of mine practices his religion back in France. (Just that one because I've lost touch with all the others I was in school with).
He's a solicitor, doesn't "accommodate, kill, or tax" as far as I know, has no intention to do so, and if he was told to do so by scholars I think he'd tell them to f off.
I remember endless discussions with him about religion(s), he loved talking about it, there were bits I simply could not agree with or understand, but every one of his interpretations of the Quran were about respect, and love (for your friend, women in your life, your family...).

As regards the bombings, I think it doesn't seem to occur to some that, should the bombings stop, in a very harrowing and paradoxical manner, it would be a let down for some (most ?) of the civilian families that are left there.

What is worse ? Living at the mercy of Daech ? Or living with the fear that the bombings to get rid of Daech might accidentally hit you ?

I know myself, as a mother, I would probably choose the latter, because despite the risk, there would be hope for my family, and not a long haul fear that my daughter will be raped and married to a terrorist, and my son trained to blow himself up (amongst many other things).

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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