Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

conorhal wrote: »

If anybody is going to create a 4th Reich it's Angela Merkel and the antics of the inept EU. Cause and effect.

Well I've a few suggestions as to how to address the growing problem if Islamic extremism in Europe.

A recent survey showed that 20% of UK mosques had extremist litrature in their shops or libraries. We have the same problem according one prominent Imam here. They need to be shut down untill the comunity that attends them put new management in place. If young Muslims are being radicalised anywhere, it's in places like these and the needs to be a zero tollerence approach to such preachers. Preach hate, you're on the next plane home.

Foreign funding for Mosques and 'cultural centers' or religious schools should be banned. The Saudis and Quataris are fond of such funding and thus exporting their particularly pernitious brand of Islam.
He who pays the piper calls the tune. So the funding has to stop.

We need to reform asylum laws that allow the immediate removal from the state of those that pose a threat to it. It makes me sick to think that people such as this can operate here with impunity:
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/paris-terror-attacks/paris-terror-attacks-leading-islamic-state-terror-suspect-still-in-ireland-thanks-to-irishborn-son-34206995.html
To that end a special dedicated Garda taskforce, just like those formed to deal with the gangs in Limerick should be formed to root them out.

A blacklist should be created of terrorist hotspots. If that nation is on a blacklist then no student visas, work permits or holiday visas can be issued to it's citizens.

We need to end the culture of moral relativism and the failed experiment of multiculturalism. Ban the veil. There needs to be a strong and unambiguous message sent out that no individual in this state is entitled to except themselves from it's norms, laws or values.

If we ban outside funding to Mosques do we also ban outside funding to fundamentalist Christian groups?
Do we ban all Christian groups with links to violent Anti-Abortion organisations as those organisations have engaged in terrorist activities in other countries.

If mosques have material that contravenes anti-hate speech legislation they should be prosecuted - so should anyone else who spouts hate speech including the neo-Nazi groups across Europe using the atrocity in Paris to further their political agenda.

Presumably the anti-Muslim rhetoric or the Right has no impact on the radicalization of young Muslims cos nothing says come and integrate into our society like calls for internment and expulsion.

As a general observation I find it ironic that there are roars calling for censorship to stop Islamic extremists spouting hate from people who complain that the 'PC Liberals' are try to censor them when they wish to spout hate.

Also ironic is the we must kill Liberal Europe to 'save'... um....what? Fascist Europe? Because that is what we will have.

I am hearing this 'multi-culturalism' a lot - care to tell me what exactly the means in your world because the last time I looked Europe has always been multi-cultural due to having all of those different cultures or is Europe one big homogeneous mono-culture where we are all the same?

Or is your objection to only to those cultural influences that are from outside Europe? Should the Brazilians in Gort be worried? We damn well will have none of the Southern Hemisphere Rugby playing here - no surry bob - no Samoans or Tongans or Maoris here!
We will also need to immediately cease using these Arabic numerals - now I know feck all about computers and the like but I am sure someone will work out how to make them work using Roman numerals.
We will also have to lose curry, bungalows, pajamas.. and anything Chinese obviously... Japanese is out so sushi and anime will obviously have to go..

Feck - I just remembered Pasta and Tomatoes came from China too :eek:

When we get rid of 'multi' - what culture will we have left exactly? Yoghurt?

Nodin wrote: »

Well, what are our cultural values? Inclusiveness? secularism? liberal attitudes? Because they don't seem to be what you're advocating.




Your tolerance of my divergent position is noted.

You seem to be firing out terms left right and centre - the paris attacks were carried out by a terrorist group with no popular support, no political arm (certainly not in the west) and no realistic political goals.

#

I would consider the values I'm talking about as those western European values of the Enlightenment. The values that the relativists have abandond, which evolved from as far back as the Greeks, that common account of personhood and citizenship which is sadly is not universally held. It might be the dominant account and maybe the most popular account in our society, but there are billions who don't see the world in the same way.

The consequences of destabilising this world view will be profound, especially when it comes to acceptable ways to disagree in society. We should be thinking very carefully about the consequences of our actions and we should remember that we have a duty to preserve our inheritance. All short term acts of compassion should be accompanied by an awareness of what we can not afford to lose and what we must in turn hand on to our children.

As for your suggestion that paris attacks were carried out by a terrorist group with no popular support. That's simply not true, there's no shortage of attitudinal polling that shows quite shocking large support for Sharia and political islam amongst the Muslim population of Europe and an ambivilence towards terrorism. Which leads me to the question of political support. Islam's adherents aren't all that interested in your class war or a left\right political devide. When the numbers begin to stack up and Sweden or France gets it's first Sharia pushing MPs no doublt you'll wonder how that happened, but just as the Shinners followed the IRA so it will be with the Islamists.

Just reading more in the IT about this and it gets weirder and weirder.
The Abdeslam brothers ran a bar in Brussels.
And many of these guys were back and forth to Syria over the past few years.

It's eye-opening stuff. They seem to be imbedded in western culture and making full use of its freedoms to attack it.

To not be at least a small bit worried about many like-minded people in the tide of migration from Syria is just lunacy.

conorhal wrote: »

#

I would consider the values I'm talking about as those western European values of the Enlightenment. The values that the relativists have abandond.

As for your suggestion that paris attacks were carried out by a terrorist group with no popular support. That's simply not true, there's no shortage of attitudinal polling that shows quite shocking large support for Sharia and political islam amongst the Muslim population of Europe and an ambivilence towards terrorism. Which leads me to the question of political support. Islam's adherents aren't all that interested in your class war or a left\right political devide. When the numbers begin to stack up and Sweden or France gets it's first Sharia pushing MPs no doublt you'll wonder how that happened, but just as the Shinners followed the IRA so it will be with the Islamists.

It's amazing how one suddenly discovers one is unEnlightened and suchlikes merely for having a different opinion. Hell, I was told I was indirectly responsible for the Paris attacks for not believing that all Muslims should be rounded up and ..I don't know, shot.

As regards "end multiculturalism", that yoghurt post made me think rather! I suspect what people MEAN by "end multiculturalism" is "don't accommodate or allow for people to express elements of their home culture if it's radically different to Irish culture". Personally, I still don't agree with this, but hey, I'm an indirect terrorist, apparently.

No mosques
No synagogues
No X Pride festivals (there was an African festival here in Cork a while back)
No outward shows of X religion - so hijab, robes, the hat and hairstyle that Orthodox Jews wear, which I should remember the name of but don't. Saris are presumably out as well.

We will have to change our Constitution, so there'd need to be a referendum on this (No religion shall be treated preferentially, etc), although we've been breaking that one since the inception of the State, so we're probably ok.

I just don't think it will HELP. Europeans are, inherently, multicultural. As someone else pointed out (in the yoghurt post, I think), Europe is hardly a single-culture mass anyway. Shutting down all "furrin" religious places and...what? - herding Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, non-Christian Chinese etc., into ghettos? - just isn't going to solve anything, and our country would be the worse for it.

Okay, end multiculturalism now. How are you planning on doing it?

jmayo wrote: »

Well you will only defeat them by using people on the ground.
Why do some people now think that they win if we actually fight them with all the force at the disposal of the West.

I saw a recent documentary about WWII and some veterans reckoned the people of today would be capable of showing as much heroism and resolve as they did.
I do seriously wonder if the guy was just saying that more in hope than anything.

After all how could he square the circle of seeing all the sacrificing he and his buddies made only for the current generations not to give a cra*.



What is so wrong with closing the borders ?
Why should there be open borders between EU states and non EU states ?
Ok make exceptions for likes of Switzerland, Norway who have long had free movement with EU, but to hell with anyone else.

And what is even wrong with closing borders between EU countries ?
So long as we don't end up with massive queues and corrupt officials that need bribing ala some African countries then what is the big issue.

You queue up, present your passport of identification document, have a quick check done with interpol and hey presto you are through.



Just because I don't like people whose principles demand that we sell ourselves out.
Idiots like Corbyn have just shown themselves to be as good as enemies of their own people.

And don't worry I keep a certain amount of venom for certain other people, like the ones who refuse to condemn attacks on civilians and children in the name of some cause that they claim is a war.

If people wanting food know the west won't help them, where will they go?

Closing borders won't work. All that will happen is some attackers have to take a somewhat more awkward route while their numbers swell. I see no benefit to closing borders. People decided they wanted the borders closed and have decided to use this no matter what.

The fact that borders can be got around illegally easily enough if you have no plan to stay there for long is ignored as it doesn't suit their agenda. That is all it is is an agenda. If any of them really cared about dealing with this Daesh issue then they would at least acknowledge that some will get in illegally anyway.

zeffabelli wrote: »

I don't understand why they are seeking to go to EUrope, why are their Islamic brethren from Islamic nations not openning their borders to them?

Does it matter to a desperate man? I'm sure the Americans grumbled that German Jews escaping Germany in WWII should be able to get into surrounding European countries instead of breaching their borders, dammit, but the fact was that they couldn't for one reason or another (including fear of war spreading to those surrounding nations) and so escaped to the US.

Look, people seem to be taking this as "throw open the borders!" vs. "don't let anyone who looks different in!". I don't suppose we could agree that there ARE at least middle grounds to these two approaches? I mean, it'd be a step in the traditional AH internet argument polarisation.

zeffabelli wrote: »

I don't understand why they are seeking to go to EUrope, why are their Islamic brethren from Islamic nations not openning their borders to them?

One reason is because like Christianity, Islam is divided and some of their 'Islamic Brethren' have views more like those shared by the very people they are fleeing from so from the perspective of refugees to go somewhere like Saudi Arabia would be frying pan to fire.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Why would you expect anyone to love a religion or those who practise its subjugation of women and homosexuals?

How do you reconcile this with the preaching of tolerance?

It's almost as if organised religions generally are just a crock of $hite designed to be a patriarchal system of subjugation and control of others, which some extremists are taking way too far.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Why would you expect anyone to love a religion or those who practise its subjugation of women and homosexuals?

How do you reconcile this with the preaching of tolerance?

The irony meter of this middle aged Irish lesbian just exploded.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Why would you expect anyone to love a religion or those who practise its subjugation of women and homosexuals?

How do you reconcile this with the preaching of tolerance?

Many love the Catholic Church.

zeffabelli wrote: »

I don't understand why they are seeking to go to EUrope, why are their Islamic brethren from Islamic nations not openning their borders to them?

Jordan has taken in 1.5 million refugees, Lebanon and Turkey have equally massive numbers

Many of these people are fleeing Islamist violence, so ironically they have more reason to fear it than us - Europe is seen as a safe haven, economically stable.. at the end of the day the vast vast majority are just people who want to live in peace and escape the horror

Sadly it only takes the rumour of one of them being involved in an attack like Paris (the passport actually looks like it's from a dead Syrian soldier) for many to start scapegoating the issue

Peist2007 wrote: »

If anything it confirms that, wait for it, drum roll, maybe Islam is not the only factor involved in this matter? As i and a few others have been saying on here for days. Surely there is another water protest some of you gowls can be attending?

it was posted on another thread, but it applies to ye perfectly ..

The left have an abusive relationship with Islam.

He loves me really